Game 4: New England @ Green Bay - Sunday, October 2nd 3:25 CT

[CheezWizHed]

So while I (and all of us) was hoping for an easy win yesterday and disappointed to see it so close to a 3rd string QB... I'm actually not that disappointed

1. We won.  Any given Sunday...
2. Rodgers clearly struggled in the first half. He looked better later, but it wasn't his best day.
3. Progress continues to be made between Rodgers and his WRs.  He is starting to look comfortable with Doubs now. Lazard looks better after his foot injury.
4. Bahk/Jenkins injury recovery has them not at 100% (esp Jenkins).  
5. Defense is improving. Still inconsistent, but trending up. 
6. Some backup players put in solid performances - Ford at safety, Nixon at CB.

I guess I see the game as a trap game where we didn't play our best and still came out with a victory.

And frankly... Zappe played really well.  He has a nice arm and made some really good throws. I can see why they kept 3 QBs on the roster.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

7 hours ago, UpandIn said:

Also, lets steal some Patriots ideas. You've got a 6'9 370 OT who can lineup and just move bodies in the run game. Throw Jones in there, Tonyan and then Lazard and Watson and force the opposing D match up. You still have 4 legit receiving options, BUT you also have great size and run blocking at WRer and a TE who can run block and catch the ball. 

Caleb Jones is on the NFI list. COVID? Something else? Who knows? But I don't think they can count on him for anything anytime soon. 

 

[PeaveyFury]

7 hours ago, UpandIn said:

Outstanding. Also a little bit of an indictment on Sean Rhyan. Doesn't sound like he's even in consideration for that RG spot. He looked like a bulldozer and someone who could compete for a job coming out. 

Hopefully the curse of Montravius Adams ends with Sean Rhyan...but not a promising start. 

I think that may be reading a bit too much into it. This Packer staff is VERY resistant to starting rookie o-linemen, as we see with Tom, who by all accounts is basically ready to contribute. They value experience and familiarity there. If they have no need to play a guy like Rhyan now, they'll give him the time to develop. If we're seeing the same thing next season, though, I'll agree completely.

[UpandIn]

8 hours ago, PeaveyFury said:

I think that may be reading a bit too much into it. This Packer staff is VERY resistant to starting rookie o-linemen, as we see with Tom, who by all accounts is basically ready to contribute. They value experience and familiarity there. If they have no need to play a guy like Rhyan now, they'll give him the time to develop. If we're seeing the same thing next season, though, I'll agree completely.

I'm not actually calling him a bust at this point obviously, but he's not clearly not ready to play. He's not only not in consideration for playing time, he's not the backup. And we know how bad the starters and the backup look(Hanson) have looked.

And they like to give a guy time if they can, but they're not THIS hesitant to play rookies. Just about every year they'll do it. Myers, Runyan, Jenkins and then going back further, Bakh, Linsley.

Again, obviously I'm not giving up on Rhyan being a good guard after 4 weeks, but if he's as far behind as it's been suggested, that's not good. The 3rd round, you should be getting a OG who's ready to play. 

[UpandIn]

8 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I read somewhere that lateral movement is the last part of the ACL recovery...not sure if that is true or a cover for Jenkins.  Regardless, he doesn't have it now and isn't starting quality RT.  He was ProBowl level G before becoming a very good LT/RT and his run blocking is still highly graded, so moving him inside seems like a no-brainer (at least for now).  Moving him to RG should help Myers' consistency too.  

I can't imagine Yosh should struggle at RT too much.  That was his college position. 

That would make sense. And it's good to hear the coaches are at least considering moving Yosh to RT rather than just hoping things get better(which they certainly could). 

There's also a lot of information to kinda sift through, but I did just read or skim an article about athletes who push their recovery and try coming back in 6 months or less and how that can cause long term issues in literally 100% of the high level athletes. Amari Rodgers was back practicing 5 months later for whatever that's worth. 

Whatever they do and whatever struggles we're currently dealing with, this team has Bakhtiari back, it has Jenkins back, it has it's entire offense healthy sans Watkins who is a veteran and knows the system. So while I want to see this team playing much better right now, they're 3-1 while looking AWFUL on offense...and I think with Aaron Rodgers and a good, deep OL, there are a lot of reasons to think we're going to see the poor play improve a great deal. That said, I don't think these results are "meaningless" just because we won. 

 

[CheezWizHed]

12 hours ago, PeaveyFury said:

I think that may be reading a bit too much into it. This Packer staff is VERY resistant to starting rookie o-linemen, as we see with Tom, who by all accounts is basically ready to contribute. They value experience and familiarity there. If they have no need to play a guy like Rhyan now, they'll give him the time to develop. If we're seeing the same thing next season, though, I'll agree completely.

Strange statement since Bakh, Myers, Newman, and Jenkins all started as rookies.  The last three were rookies under this administration.  

[UpandIn]

On 10/4/2022 at 8:55 AM, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Caleb Jones is on the NFI list. COVID? Something else? Who knows? But I don't think they can count on him for anything anytime soon. 

 

This is really troubling. 

A-They don't put players on the NFI list for Covid at this point(minimum of 4 weeks now). 
B-If it's not Covid...you start to wonder if it's something serious. There are a lot of heart issues post Covid and Covid treatments. I don't care which, I just don't want this to become Alice in Wonderland. Aside from Heart issues, being an elite athlete doesn't very bad, horrible, unlucky things can happen to you(like undiagnosed heart conditions, see JJ Watt, Reggie Lewis and sadly dozens more professional athletes who's names we're not as well acquainted with as we should be. 

So hopefully it's
C-Just an injury from training or playing Basketball or some other stupid, reckless incident that's not serious enough to get covered but is serious enough to keep him out for a month. Hopefully he...turned an ankle or some stupid Matt Wise salad like incident(best case scenario). 

Still, I was only about 10% serious...and Zach Tom could also play TE in bigger packages. 

The most I think about it, I definitely want to see a healthy Caleb Jones next to Bakhtiari/Jenkins/Myers/Runyan/Nijman

With Watson, Lazard, Doubs at WRer and Aaron Jones in the backfield. 

If Sisyphus was the size of Caleb Jones, that rock would have gotten up and over that Mountain(or Hill...not important). Point is, he's raw, but he moves people right in front of him. Watson may be as good of a run blocker as Lazard just physically(though not as smart(see the Doubs TD vs Tampa). But they can still overpower DBs. And then Aaron Jones is an elite receiving RB. 

But if you can get Watson going, they D would have to honor his speed(I'm thinking Tampa Bay specifically). Now it's 2 WRers and a RB vs 2 RBs and 2 DBs and Rodgers should have plenty of time to let the play develop. Plus...I don't know that the big fella doesn't have hands like OBJ. Maybe he blocks and releases?

 

 

Man I'm bored. I hate waking up hours before my alarm goes off...and you fellow Brewerfan.net members, you have to suffer my BRILLIANCE flawless arguments, guaranteed to score in such cases!

 

None of this will ever happen, I just hope the big man is healthy. And I hope he keeps himself in shape. That extra 30 pounds was the reason he was not a star at Indiana or a day 1/2 draft pick. So whatever the issue is, lets hope he can get back on the field and be ready to play in the shortest period possible. 

[PeaveyFury]

11 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Strange statement since Bakh, Myers, Newman, and Jenkins all started as rookies.  The last three were rookies under this administration.  

Of the three drafted by this administration, only Myers started from day 1, largely because they had no other options at center.

Gute and co. also have shown a willingness to draft guys even in the early rounds with the intention of letting them develop vs. immediate playing time.

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, PeaveyFury said:

Of the three drafted by this administration, only Myers started from day 1, largely because they had no other options at center.

Gute and co. also have shown a willingness to draft guys even in the early rounds with the intention of letting them develop vs. immediate playing time.

Newman also started day 1.  He wasn't given it like Myers and won it in TC, but he was the RG starter on game 1.  Jenkins started on game 3.  They clearly don't have an issue starting rookies when they outplay those in front of them. In MLF's first 3 years coaching, they had 3 rookie OL starting.  So the evidence doesn't show them being slightly resistant to starting rookie OL let alone "VERY" resistant.

It is no surprise that Rhyan isn't sniffing the starting lineup because he couldn't even get any #1 reps while rotating in TC practice.  Clearly he has some things to work on.  But Tom is a bit more of a surprise as he got quite a few #1 reps, held his own in Game 1, and seems like he could upgrade our RG position. 

[CheezWizHed]

5 hours ago, UpandIn said:

This is really troubling. 

A-They don't put players on the NFI list for Covid at this point(minimum of 4 weeks now). 
B-If it's not Covid...you start to wonder if it's something serious. There are a lot of heart issues post Covid and Covid treatments. I don't care which, I just don't want this to become Alice in Wonderland. Aside from Heart issues, being an elite athlete doesn't very bad, horrible, unlucky things can happen to you(like undiagnosed heart conditions, see JJ Watt, Reggie Lewis and sadly dozens more professional athletes who's names we're not as well acquainted with as we should be. 

So hopefully it's
C-Just an injury from training or playing Basketball or some other stupid, reckless incident that's not serious enough to get covered but is serious enough to keep him out for a month. Hopefully he...turned an ankle or some stupid Matt Wise salad like incident(best case scenario). 

Still, I was only about 10% serious...and Zach Tom could also play TE in bigger packages. 

The most I think about it, I definitely want to see a healthy Caleb Jones next to Bakhtiari/Jenkins/Myers/Runyan/Nijman

With Watson, Lazard, Doubs at WRer and Aaron Jones in the backfield. 

If Sisyphus was the size of Caleb Jones, that rock would have gotten up and over that Mountain(or Hill...not important). Point is, he's raw, but he moves people right in front of him. Watson may be as good of a run blocker as Lazard just physically(though not as smart(see the Doubs TD vs Tampa). But they can still overpower DBs. And then Aaron Jones is an elite receiving RB. 

But if you can get Watson going, they D would have to honor his speed(I'm thinking Tampa Bay specifically). Now it's 2 WRers and a RB vs 2 RBs and 2 DBs and Rodgers should have plenty of time to let the play develop. Plus...I don't know that the big fella doesn't have hands like OBJ. Maybe he blocks and releases?

 

 

Man I'm bored. I hate waking up hours before my alarm goes off...and you fellow Brewerfan.net members, you have to suffer my BRILLIANT flawless, guaranteed to score in such cases!

 

None of this will ever happen, I just hope the big man is healthy. And I hope he keeps himself in shape. That extra 30 pounds was the reason he was not a star at Indiana or a day 1/2 draft pick. So whatever the issue is, lets hope he can get back on the field and be ready to play in the shortest period possible. 

Aren't early morning ramblings fun? ? 

Obviously Caleb's situation could be anything from serious to minor...and we won't know.  If I were a betting man, I'd say it is something weight related though.  Just because he lost weight doesn't mean he has established the willpower to keep it off. Maybe we are "gaming the system" and sending him to weight watchers* to work on conditioning/weight loss or dealing with issues like that. 

*not actual WW, but an internal program like it. 

[PeaveyFury]

38 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

Newman also started day 1.  He wasn't given it like Myers and won it in TC, but he was the RG starter on game 1.  Jenkins started on game 3.  They clearly don't have an issue starting rookies when they outplay those in front of them. In MLF's first 3 years coaching, they had 3 rookie OL starting.  So the evidence doesn't show them being slightly resistant to starting rookie OL let alone "VERY" resistant.

It is no surprise that Rhyan isn't sniffing the starting lineup because he couldn't even get any #1 reps while rotating in TC practice.  Clearly he has some things to work on.  But Tom is a bit more of a surprise as he got quite a few #1 reps, held his own in Game 1, and seems like he could upgrade our RG position. 

In my head Newman hit the starting O-line later in the season, but you're 100% correct. As such, I'll withdraw the 'reluctant' part of my statement and will stand behind my note that the administration is willing to draft and develop guys in the early rounds. I don't think you can read anything into their opinion of Rhyan based on him not starting now, as that may have been their evaluation and plan from draft day.

[CheezWizHed]

Yes, I agree with willingness to draft and develop high draft picks - Gary being example #1. Wyatt looks like he is going that route.  Even Watson is going to be that to some extent with them taking him slowly in to the route tree (granted, missing TC is a big part of that too).

Honestly, I thought Newman started a couple games in myself...until I went to look. I forgot he was a day 1 starter. 

[UpandIn]

6 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Aren't early morning ramblings fun? ? 

Obviously Caleb's situation could be anything from serious to minor...and we won't know.  If I were a betting man, I'd say it is something weight related though.  Just because he lost weight doesn't mean he has established the willpower to keep it off. Maybe we are "gaming the system" and sending him to weight watchers* to work on conditioning/weight loss or dealing with issues like that. 

*not actual WW, but an internal program like it. 

A-They are until I go back and read them after a couple cups(pots) of coffee once I get to work and I see the way I wrote!

B-I hope you're wrong about Jones. If he's putting all that weight back on already, it does not bode well for his future. You could never give this guy a big deal. We've seen the downside with Bakh and he has done pretty much everything right...as far as I know and can tell. 

I'm also a little skeptical it's that. They usually need a good reason to be able to do this as the NFL and the NFLPA is involved, you get to choose how much you're going to pay the player. So they can cut his salary down to basically PS levels if it's something stupid or totally the players fault or...hopefully if he's legitimately sick, they'd pay him his full salary. So they can't just say, "Caleb got fat again, throw him on the NRI and send him to adult fat camp with Mekhi Becton for a month." Right? Or maybe they can, who knows.

 

Still be better than a lot of other scenarios.