Sal Frelick.......

[YelichPosse]

If they bring him up 24 August I would be elated! And if they start him 9th ala ATL with Michael Harris, I feel he can have a similar impact on the team! 

[Robocaller]

13 hours ago, YelichPosse said:

If that’s the case he better be called up 8/24 then. This ship is sinking fast and it needs a shot in the arm. Would love to see Frelick and Ruiz both and see what happens.

Oh. I read 8/23 as August of 2023.  Which seemed insane. This is better.

 

[Robocaller]

11 hours ago, igor67 said:

Yelich and Frelick at the top of the order looks really exciting at the moment potentially a lot of synergy their with each player's current skill sets.

While I agree, CC doesn't like to have LH hitters back to back in the lineup.

 

[Robocaller]

7 hours ago, Mass Haas said:

There are zero service time implications involved in this situation.

have the rules changed? It's not September yet.

 

[Robocaller]

7 hours ago, monty57 said:

Long term I agree. I'd rank the AAA OFs at Frelick, Weimer, Mitchell, Ruiz, although it's great to see Mitchell back and doing well so he could surpass Weimer if he keeps rolling (on my meaningless "list" anyhow). I'd say that with Weimer and Mitchell's injuries this year, I think Ruiz is probably the #2 call-up right now if needed, behind Frelick. Let's hope it doesn't come to that, as it'd mean we had a significant injury.

It's easy to remember to spell his last name Wiemer.  In German names with back-to-back vowels, the second one is pronounced (sorta). His name is pronounced WEEMER, so it's Wiemer.

[Robocaller]

2 hours ago, LouisEly said:

It's not about Counsell-colored glasses, it's more about not putting too much pressure on him by sticking him in the 1-2 spot that makes me think that if he comes up he starts batting 9th until he get acclimated to the big league pitching and shows he can handle being at the top of the lineup.

The problem is if he's batting 9th, you have LHH batting back-to-back 9,1.  CC doesn't like to do that.

[Outlander]

 

4 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

have the rules changed? It's not September yet.

 

Every day in the major is 1 service day so it potentially does have service time implications. For example if they really want the extra year of control and called him up in the next week would have to wait until late May 2023 to call up again. Hard to say though, a lot can change.

[LouisEly]

1 minute ago, Robocaller said:

The problem is if he's batting 9th, you have LHH batting back-to-back 9,1.  CC doesn't like to do that.

With a 9-person lineup it has to happen somewhere.

[Robocaller]

1 minute ago, LouisEly said:

With a 9-person lineup it has to happen somewhere.

Only if there are 5 or more LHH.

[Robocaller]

2 minutes ago, Outlander said:

 

Every day in the major is 1 service day so it potentially does have service time implications. For example if they really want the extra year of control and called him up in the next week would have to wait until late May 2023 to call up again. Hard to say though, a lot can change.

We might be talking about two different things. Unless things have changed, service after a  certain date doesn't count for something.

[Outlander]

9 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

We might be talking about two different things. Unless things have changed, service after a  certain date doesn't count for something.

Every day in the majors counts as a service day. September used to not count toward rookie eligibility.

[Brock Beauchamp]

While I would call up Frelick, let's not go crazy here. Most top prospects end up back in the minors at least once because they can't handle MLB pitching/hitters.

Frelick has all of 13 games at AAA. Yeah, he's killing it, which is why I'd call him up... but also, I have a stat line and scouting reports to read. I don't have piles of data and internal knowledge from which to make a decision.

We all need to take a deep breath and remember we have - at best - 10% of the information required to make a decision. 

[Robocaller]

21 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

While I would call up Frelick, let's not go crazy here. Most top prospects end up back in the minors at least once because they can't handle MLB pitching/hitters.

Frelick has all of 13 games at AAA. Yeah, he's killing it, which is why I'd call him up... but also, I have a stat line and scouting reports to read. I don't have piles of data and internal knowledge from which to make a decision.

We all need to take a deep breath and remember we have - at best - 10% of the information required to make a decision. 

I think we have 100% of the information required to make a decision, and Frelick should be brought up as soon as there are no significant negative consequence of bringing him up.

100% of the Information: He's raking, and CF is our worst position.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, Robocaller said:

I think we have 100% of the information required to make a decision, and Frelick should be brought up as soon as there are no significant negative consequence of bringing him up.

100% of the Information: He's raking, and CF is our worst position.

I mean, maybe. But how often does a hitter have a wildly exposed weakness that is only exploited at the major league level?

Answer: often.

I can't even rattle off the list of players who were "can't miss" top five prospects who just bombed out for an extended time in MLB.

Here's a great example and he plays CF at an other-wordly level, much better than Frelick: Byron Buxton, who was literally the #1 consensus prospect at the time.

AAA OPS as a 21-year-old: .986

MLB OPS that season after the call-up: .576

Some player performance translates directly to MLB. Some take time. Some never perform. As I said, our data is limited and we should always keep that in mind when casting 100% judgment over a decision.

[nate82]

3 hours ago, LouisEly said:

It's not about Counsell-colored glasses, it's more about not putting too much pressure on him by sticking him in the 1-2 spot that makes me think that if he comes up he starts batting 9th until he get acclimated to the big league pitching and shows he can handle being at the top of the lineup.

I agree but I think he is put in the 7th or 8th spot.  Rookies are not usually put in a top spot of the order.  Though Ryan Braun did debut at the #2 spot in his first start.  Prince Fielder made his first start at the #7 spot in the lineup.  

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 hours ago, LouisEly said:

It's not about Counsell-colored glasses, it's more about not putting too much pressure on him by sticking him in the 1-2 spot that makes me think that if he comes up he starts batting 9th until he get acclimated to the big league pitching and shows he can handle being at the top of the lineup.

I don't disagree with this. I guess the "Counsell-colored glasses" comment sounds derogatory, but I simply meant that hitting him ninth to start was something I could see him doing. And it certainly has merit.

[brewcrewdue80]

2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I mean, maybe. But how often does a hitter have a wildly exposed weakness that is only exploited at the major league level?

Answer: often.

I can't even rattle off the list of players who were "can't miss" top five prospects who just bombed out for an extended time in MLB.

Here's a great example and he plays CF at an other-wordly level, much better than Frelick: Byron Buxton, who was literally the #1 consensus prospect at the time.

AAA OPS as a 21-year-old: .986

MLB OPS that season after the call-up: .576

Some player performance translates directly to MLB. Some take time. Some never perform. As I said, our data is limited and we should always keep that in mind when casting 100% judgment over a decision.

And you can have said called up prospects spark teams. Hiura in 2019 definitely provided one.

Buxton dealt with a higher k pct/potential and a year younger than Frelick would be on the first taste of MLB.  Still no certainty 1 way or another, but Frelick's k rate protects him from the likelihood on a bust debut more than others.

Cards have added guys similarly drafted with nuetral+positive succes.

Bader, Nootbar, and Dylan Carlson. Looking at those 3 is more likely a good sample what Frelick should do out the gates.

[Brock Beauchamp]

10 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

And you can have said called up prospects spark teams. Hiura in 2019 definitely provided one.

Buxton dealt with a higher k pct/potential and a year younger than Frelick would be on the first taste of MLB.  Still no certainty 1 way or another, but Frelick's k rate protects him from the likelihood on a bust debut more than others.

Honestly, just lulz.

Buxton was literally the number one prospect in baseball.

And he failed. Miserably.

And if you want a more recent example, let me introduce you to this man.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=torkel000spe

[monty57]

RE: the "service time" conversation going on.

Every day in the majors counts as a day of service time, but at this point it doesn't really matter because there aren't enough days left to count as a full year of service time for Frelick. The Brewers will still have him for six seasons of "team control" whether they bring him up today or next week.

The August 23/24 date is the date where he can come up and still maintain rookie eligibility next year. If he has rookie eligibility next year, and he is on the opening day roster, the Brewers could get an additional draft pick if he ends up in the top three vote-getters for rookie of the year. According to the tweet posted early in this thread, this is why they haven't brought him up yet... they want a shot at an extra draft pick.

If he is in the top two vote getters for rookie of the year, he would get a full year's service time regardless of how long he'd been up. The purpose is to try to get teams to put their best prospects on the field on opening day rather than keeping them in the minors.

I think he'll be up when he's cleared the "rookie status" date, and I think the plan is to keep him up and give him plenty of playing time, as he is viewed as the opening day CF in '23.

[YelichPosse]

10 minutes ago, monty57 said:

RE: the "service time" conversation going on.

Every day in the majors counts as a day of service time, but at this point it doesn't really matter because there aren't enough days left to count as a full year of service time for Frelick. The Brewers will still have him for six seasons of "team control" whether they bring him up today or next week.

The August 23/24 date is the date where he can come up and still maintain rookie eligibility next year. If he has rookie eligibility next year, and he is on the opening day roster, the Brewers could get an additional draft pick if he ends up in the top three vote-getters for rookie of the year. According to the tweet posted early in this thread, this is why they haven't brought him up yet... they want a shot at an extra draft pick.

If he is in the top two vote getters for rookie of the year, he would get a full year's service time regardless of how long he'd been up. The purpose is to try to get teams to put their best prospects on the field on opening day rather than keeping them in the minors.

I think he'll be up when he's cleared the "rookie status" date, and I think the plan is to keep him up and give him plenty of playing time, as he is viewed as the opening day CF in '23.

I hope this is literally what they are thinking and the why behind it, and we will see him next week. AND next year. It'll be fun to see these guys come up over the next year and a half.

[LouisEly]

Well, if he's up on 8/24 then we know that the plan is for him to be their starting CF in 2023.

[homer]

1 minute ago, YelichPosse said:

I hope this is literally what they are thinking and the why behind it, and we will see him next week. AND next year. It'll be fun to see these guys come up over the next year and a half.

Looking at the top 10 prospects list, a lot of ETAs in 2023 and 2024. I know one or two outfielders will probably get traded but still...exciting times coming.

[Jopal78]

11 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

While I would call up Frelick, let's not go crazy here. Most top prospects end up back in the minors at least once because they can't handle MLB pitching/hitters.

Frelick has all of 13 games at AAA. Yeah, he's killing it, which is why I'd call him up... but also, I have a stat line and scouting reports to read. I don't have piles of data and internal knowledge from which to make a decision.

We all need to take a deep breath and remember we have - at best - 10% of the information required to make a decision. 

I would suggest as a counter example, that a minor league player coming over from an ACC College program, who then in 500 minor league ABs has produced a .329/.407/.471 line, does not have much more to prove against the retreads and organizational depth type players that make up AAA baseball. 

[monty57]

To Brock's point, we don't know what to expect in immediate returns. He could hit the ground running, or he could falter a bit. Baseball is a long-term game that is often viewed through a short-term scope.

I don't follow prospects as much as some here do, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but to me Frelick looks like he should be a good-but-not-great defender with great bat-to-ball skills that should lead to high BA/OBP with limited power. I think the Brewers are in desperate need of players like him on the roster, so I'll be happy when he's up, but as fans we need to keep our emotions in check a bit as he settles himself onto the MLB stage.

[RedStickBrew]

8 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I would suggest as a counter example, that a minor league player coming over from an ACC College program, who then in 500 minor league ABs has produced a .329/.407/.471 line, does not have much more to prove against the retreads and organizational depth type players that make up AAA baseball. 

Agree and while it is true that many top prospects fail at a spectacular rate in MLB in general, I don't think anyone is expecting Frelick to come in and carry the team on his back and lead them to the playoffs.  The point most are making is that he has little left to prove in the minors and are hopeful he will be more productive than our current CF situation.