Sal Frelick.......

[monty57]

48 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

We do not have enough Hiura threads.  Guy is buried.  Numbers are outstanding this year. 

While I agree with you, my point was that this is a thread about Frelick. He's a former first round draft pick who has raced through the minors and is ready for The Show. He's likely to be the first of a line of quality prospects that can help keep this franchise relevant for the foreseeable future, and his skill set is one that is sorely lacking on our MLB roster, so he could have a positive impact right away.

Let's give him some love by talking about him in this thread that is dedicated to him, and save the Hiura talk for the many other threads in which it's being discussed. It's worth discussing, I'd just like a thread that focuses on a guy who I hope will put together some All-Star campaigns over the next six years in a Brewer uniform.

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, monty57 said:

Davis did put up good numbers at AAA this year. However, he's 30 and a career journeyman/AAAA guy, while Ruiz is 23 and has had a breakout season this year. 

There is reason to doubt that Ruiz is for real, but the fact that Davis hit well in his time in Nashville this year is not one of them.

 

Yahtzee.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Davis was used for context. You could have stopped at "there is reason to doubt Ruiz is for real" because there is. That tweet was simply a way to graphically illustrate it. Take Davis and his Nashville numbers out of the equation and it's still there for all to see - Ruiz has suffered a significant dropoff since leaving El Paso (-206 ops) as some warned may happen. And nothing he has done since joining the Brewers organization suggests he'd have a significant impact for the major league club other than perhaps as a pinch runner. That's a possible September role but it's certainly not a come up and take over the everyday CF role.

Ruiz has greatly improved as his career unfolded w/regard to drawing walks & making contact. That trend has pretty much continued at N'ville even though the numbers aren't as gaudy. And from everything I've read & heard he is a guy with elite speed who has learned to play in such a way as to take advantage of that speed.

Having said that, his is a story that will most likely unfold later as I'm sure Frelick is "ahead" right now.

[patrickgpe]

5 hours ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

 

I'm confused, how would they get a draft pick if he does well in Rookie of the year voting in 2023?

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, folly412 said:

When he comes up, I hope it's clear to CC that 1) he isn't coming up to be Tyrone Taylor's backup and 2) he's not a #9 hitter who gets pinch hit for as soon as a lefty shows up.

Not advocating for this, but if/when he gets here it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he hits ninth. Just looking at it through Counsell-colored glasses. let's remember, he loves the L-R-L-R thing. Maybe the most we could hope for would be Yelich & Frelick at the top vs RHP. Right now I just want to see the kid promoted.

Didn't know about the CBA thing & how ROY is tied into draft picks. Sounds silly to me but whatever.

[wibadgers23]

Frelick-Adames-Yelich would be ideal at the top of the lineup if Yelich had even a little power left and was driving in runs. 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Yahtzee.

Yahtzee what? I literally said take Davis's numbers out of the equation and let Ruiz's numbers stand alone. He's not swinging the bat well enough at AAA to suggest he'd make any impact right now in the majors. That's factual. People's wishes for what he is or could become are not.

It's not only the mediocre numbers, it's the weak contact and the fact he's been caught stealing 3 times in 7 tries so there's no guarantee he'd even be a difference maker in that department. He was 1 for 3 on steal attempts in the majors for San Diego.

[monty57]

50 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

I'm confused, how would they get a draft pick if he does well in Rookie of the year voting in 2023?

From an SBNation article I Googled:

"However, little was done to curb service time manipulation as the players dropped their proposal to expand Super Two status. Top prospects who finish first or second in Rookie of the Year voting will receive a full year of service time. Teams who promote top prospects to the Opening Day roster will receive draft pick compensation if those players finish in the top three for Rookie of the Year or top five in MVP or Cy Young voting."

[jay87shot]

 

55 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

I'm confused, how would they get a draft pick if he does well in Rookie of the year voting in 2023?

Part of the new collective bargaining was that teams who have a player win Rookie of Year (or maybe place in the top couple spots) get a draft pick. In effect, teams won't hold prospect out for the first month or two to save service time.

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Yahtzee what? I literally said take Davis's numbers out of the equation and let Ruiz's numbers stand alone. He's not swinging the bat well enough at AAA to suggest he'd make any impact right now in the majors. That's factual, people's wishes for what he is or could become are not.

That was in response to Monty (obviously) & was posted before I read your response to him.  I agree he isn't someone who should come up right now. I said Frelick is clearly ahead of him.

[igor67]

For a weird problem to solve those incentives are actually reasonable. The sweet spot for the team though is that coveted 3rd place finish in ROY which is funny because inevitable there will be rooting for just such an outcome.

[jay87shot]

As much as we should bring up Frelich, I agree it is best to wait and not lose a year of service time.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

3 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

That was in response to Monty (obviously) & was posted before I read your response to him.  I agree he isn't someone who should come up right now. I said Frelick is clearly ahead of him.

Ah got it, apologies for my misunderstanding. I get it, we all want Ruiz to help the team but there are plenty of reasons for caution that so many must be skimming over when suggesting he get the call to Milwaukee. He's likely the 4th most probable player capable of making a difference for the Brewers right now when choosing from Nashville OFers alone.

[Hopper]

3 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

  Imagine the outfield D of Frelick, Mitchell, and Ruiz.

and that isn't even counting Wiemer.

[Mass Haas]

18 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

As much as we should bring up Frelich, I agree it is best to wait and not lose a year of service time.

There are zero service time implications involved in this situation.

[monty57]

5 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Ah got it, apologies for my misunderstanding. I get it, we all want Ruiz to help the team but there are plenty of reasons for caution that so many must be skimming over when suggesting he get the call to Milwaukee. He's likely the 4th likely to make a difference for the Brewers right now when choosing from Nashville OFers alone.

Long term I agree. I'd rank the AAA OFs at Frelick, Weimer, Mitchell, Ruiz, although it's great to see Mitchell back and doing well so he could surpass Weimer if he keeps rolling (on my meaningless "list" anyhow). I'd say that with Weimer and Mitchell's injuries this year, I think Ruiz is probably the #2 call-up right now if needed, behind Frelick. Let's hope it doesn't come to that, as it'd mean we had a significant injury.

[monty57]

2 minutes ago, Mass Haas said:

There are zero service time implications involved in this situation.

Well, he could come up and rake and win Rookie of the Year ? 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

14 minutes ago, monty57 said:

Long term I agree. I'd rank the AAA OFs at Frelick, Weimer, Mitchell, Ruiz, although it's great to see Mitchell back and doing well so he could surpass Weimer if he keeps rolling (on my meaningless "list" anyhow). I'd say that with Weimer and Mitchell's injuries this year, I think Ruiz is probably the #2 call-up right now if needed, behind Frelick. Let's hope it doesn't come to that, as it'd mean we had a significant injury.

It also should probably be noted that Ruiz is the only one of the four who is already on the 40-man roster.

[patrickgpe]

47 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

 

Part of the new collective bargaining was that teams who have a player win Rookie of Year (or maybe place in the top couple spots) get a draft pick. In effect, teams won't hold prospect out for the first month or two to save service time.

Thanks. I was not aware of that. Makes sense now. 

[patrickgpe]

If the date is August 23rd to not lose his rookie status in 2023, it makes sense to DFA Davis and call up Frelik, but then you have to play him almost every day. Also getting some MLB AB's in 2022, would help in 2023 if that is the long term plan for now. I'm not sure how Ruiz fits into the equation if Frelik is your everday CF 

[RedStickBrew]

1 hour ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Yahtzee what? I literally said take Davis's numbers out of the equation and let Ruiz's numbers stand alone. He's not swinging the bat well enough at AAA to suggest he'd make any impact right now in the majors. That's factual. People's wishes for what he is or could become are not.

It's not only the mediocre numbers, it's the weak contact and the fact he's been caught stealing 3 times in 7 tries so there's no guarantee he'd even be a difference maker in that department. He was 1 for 3 on steal attempts in the majors for San Diego.

All fair criticisms of Ruiz. I would just add that at least 3 of 12 hits in his small Nashville sample are bunt hits which account in part for his low slugging percentage.  I guess his niche is most likely to be contact and speed-  getting on base.

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, Mass Haas said:

There are zero service time implications involved in this situation.

I wasn't sure if that was the case or not. Thanks for the info.

[KeithStone53151]

If frelick comes up, I think he does start most days and probably bats 9. He's not about to unseat yelich in the leadoff spot. I also think for this season, he'd platoon with Taylor which is fine. Here's hoping it happens August 24

[LouisEly]

6 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Not advocating for this, but if/when he gets here it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he hits ninth. Just looking at it through Counsell-colored glasses. let's remember, he loves the L-R-L-R thing. Maybe the most we could hope for would be Yelich & Frelick at the top vs RHP. Right now I just want to see the kid promoted.

It's not about Counsell-colored glasses, it's more about not putting too much pressure on him by sticking him in the 1-2 spot that makes me think that if he comes up he starts batting 9th until he get acclimated to the big league pitching and shows he can handle being at the top of the lineup.

[igor67]

I would agree that I wouldn't be surprised or even disappointed if they started batting him 9th, it generates similar synergy, but I'd really love the impact of the potentially high OBP batting second once he's acclimated. It's also too bad we don't get the giant September rosters anymore as Ruiz would definitely be up to pinch run. In a close and late situation the relative value of swapping him in for Narvaez or Tellez would have been pretty big.