Sal Frelick.......

[Jim French Stepstool]

.........is hitting .440 at Nashville with a .525 OBP. Four-for-four last night w/a walk.

Don't know how much longer they can keep him farming given the problems scoring runs in Milwaukee. Perhaps he would struggle to make an adjustment to MLB pitching, but those numbers have to be getting harder & harder to ignore.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

 

[Jopal78]

This is the same as the threads about the Yelich extension. If they called him up now and he’s a great player, there will be a cadre of folks wanting to tar and feather the front office for burning service time in 2022.

Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

[wibadgers23]

What are the service time implications of bringing him up at some point this year?

[UpandIn]

6 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

This is the same as the threads about the Yelich extension. If they called him up now and he’s a great player, there will be a cadre of folks wanting to tar and feather the front office for burning service time in 2022.

Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

It's not about an extra year of control so much as it the new CBA and the draft picks for finishing in the top 5 of Cy Voting(one year too late as we'd have gotten 2 last year) MVP voting and then top 3 in ROY voting.

 

If that is the reason though...that's pretty encouraging. It means they think he can win a ROY or be in contention. 

[YelichPosse]

If that’s the case he better be called up 8/24 then. This ship is sinking fast and it needs a shot in the arm. Would love to see Frelick and Ruiz both and see what happens.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Frelick, sure why not. Ruiz, ehh...

 

[monty57]

22 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Frelick, sure why not. Ruiz, ehh...

 

Davis did put up good numbers at AAA this year. However, he's 30 and a career journeyman/AAAA guy, while Ruiz is 23 and has had a breakout season this year. 

There is reason to doubt that Ruiz is for real, but the fact that Davis hit well in his time in Nashville this year is not one of them.

Davis has not been horrible with the Brewers, posting a 0.5 WAR this year in 84 PA (mostly due to good defense). Meanwhile, Taylor has posted a 0.7 WAR in 304 PA.

Both of our CF "placeholders" have been average-ish. However, the AAA prospects are highly touted, so the hope is that they will be better than that. It's probably a good thing that our biggest "black hole" is still posting a positive WAR, and it is definitely a good thing that we get to debate over which one of our highly-touted MLB-ready prospects we should bring up.

I'm excited to see all of the AAA guys in Milwaukee. At this time, Frelick is the better prospect, so it makes sense to bring him up. I look forward to having another contact/OBP bat in the lineup. Maybe some of the solo shots will become two-run homers, and we'll be able to get a runner in from second once in a while.

[folly412]

When he comes up, I hope it's clear to CC that 1) he isn't coming up to be Tyrone Taylor's backup and 2) he's not a #9 hitter who gets pinch hit for as soon as a lefty shows up.

[YelichPosse]

It's true... he needs to PLAY and not be PH for every opportunity Craig has to make a decision. Case and point (no matter how you feel about Keston) was Huria last night. Actually against RH's and he had the first hit against Gosilin and went the other way vs Kimbrel. He had maybe the best approach of any hitter last night. These young guys that will be coming up (super excited for the wave coming) can not be treated as Craig has treated Huira this year - if that's how he will be with "matchups" and whatever analytics he is using, we might as well get a new manager, because the next wave will end up tanking because of misuse.

[Jopal78]

30 minutes ago, YelichPosse said:

It's true... he needs to PLAY and not be PH for every opportunity Craig has to make a decision. Case and point (no matter how you feel about Keston) was Huria last night. Actually against RH's and he had the first hit against Gosilin and went the other way vs Kimbrel. He had maybe the best approach of any hitter last night. These young guys that will be coming up (super excited for the wave coming) can not be treated as Craig has treated Huira this year - if that's how he will be with "matchups" and whatever analytics he is using, we might as well get a new manager, because the next wave will end up tanking because of misuse.

As a point of reference, when Trent Grisham was called up in 2019, he immediately went into the starting lineup in game 110, and played in 51 of the remaining 52 games and was a starter in 35 of them. 

I really don't know why anyone suggests the manager "misuses" players on the Brewers roster. It flies in the face of seasons worth of contrary information. Believe your own eyes and use logic, the Brewers have tablets in the dugout with video on them, if they're that reliant on information its implausible the coaching staff isn't aware of player splits, player tendencies, matchups, etc.  Thus, there is a reason why Hiura plays against the pitchers he does, and there is a reason the relief pitchers pitch when they do. Rather, it is an indictment of the quality of reporters on the Brewers beat (McCalvy, Rosiak, Sophia, etc). that they haven't asked the manager those "why" questions yet. 

P.S.

Apparently one of those why questions was asked yesterday:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2022/08/17/why-hasnt-keston-hiura-been-milwaukee-brewers-lineup-more/10343102002/

[igor67]

Yelich and Frelick at the top of the order looks really exciting at the moment potentially a lot of synergy their with each player's current skill sets.

[YelichPosse]

21 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

As a point of reference, when Trent Grisham was called up in 2019, he immediately went into the starting lineup in game 110, and played in 51 of the remaining 52 games and was a starter in 35 of them. 

I really don't know why anyone suggests the manager "misuses" players on the Brewers roster. It flies in the face of seasons worth of contrary information. Believe your own eyes and use logic, the Brewers have tablets in the dugout with video on them, if they're that reliant on information its implausible the coaching staff isn't aware of player splits, player tendencies, matchups, etc.  Thus, there is a reason why Hiura plays against the pitchers he does, and there is a reason the relief pitchers pitch when they do. Rather, it is an indictment of the quality of reporters on the Brewers beat (McCalvy, Rosiak, Sophia, etc). that they haven't asked the manager those "why" questions yet. 

P.S.

Apparently one of those why questions was asked yesterday:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2022/08/17/why-hasnt-keston-hiura-been-milwaukee-brewers-lineup-more/10343102002/

You aren't wrong.

Color me shocked somebody finally asked the question we have all been wondering. I almost fell out of my chair... wow.

I am not a huge supporter of Keston by any stretch of the imagination, but the eye test (and numbers) back up what happened last night.

I do not want to see Frelick or any of these guys come up and common sense goes out the window. That's all I am saying. Craig does, and has, always loved the veterans even if they dont "deserve" to keep playing over X Y or Z. That, I believe, is where a lot of the frustration lies, and concern is.

Seeing teams (ATL as a prime example) bring up guys from AA, actually quite often - and seeing the spark they bring, makes me wonder why we don't follow the same path. Service time or not. If you want to win sometimes you need to GO FOR IT. If that costs you some time of a prospect, I suppose to me that is worth making the playoffs vs. missing them. (all said that is absolutely not a given - but a spark can be the catalyst).

[NBBrewFan]

I'm tired of the the Brewers digging up past-their-prime vets like JBJ, Wong, and Cutch that CC can't help but play every day.  If they are going to be boring and the 7th best team in the NL, I'd rather they were the 8th or 9th, but playing players who will be part of a Brewers team that can make it deep into the playoffs. I'm fine with them trying to eeck out a playoff spot, but if they put us through another year of crap players for a bight of the apple that was just bitten by a syphilitic Turk, personally I'd pass and find a better way to spend my money and time.

[RedStickBrew]

Agree, it's time to FREE-lick.  Wouldn't mind seeing what Ruiz can do in Milwaukee either. And Mitchell is quietly getting the job done in Nashville as well.  Mitchell needs to stay healthy which hurt him this year in Biloxi but so far in Nashville, he has an .850s OPS, cut down on the K's while still drawing his walks and of course brings that elite D.  Imagine the outfield D of Frelick, Mitchell, and Ruiz.

[monty57]

Let's try not to turn this into another "Keston Hiura should play more" thread. We've had enough of those.

I think Frelick could add some life to this team. We have way too much "all or nothing," so just for diversification purposes, a "bat-to-ball" guy should fit in nicely. Plus, I hope that Frelick will come into next season as the opening day starter, so getting his feet wet this year should help him (and the team) out going forward.

I don't know if it's good to throw young guys right into the fire, but Adames really isn't a #2/3 hitter with his .221/.285/.449/.734 slash line. He's probably better served in the #5/6 hole. Would the team be gutsy enough to put the rookie at #2 (I think Yelich is cemented in at leadoff). Having two guys who get on base in front of the home run hitters seems like a good idea.

[rickh150]

22 minutes ago, monty57 said:

Let's try not to turn this into another "Keston Hiura should play more" thread. We've had enough of those.

I think Frelick could add some life to this team. We have way too much "all or nothing," so just for diversification purposes, a "bat-to-ball" guy should fit in nicely. Plus, I hope that Frelick will come into next season as the opening day starter, so getting his feet wet this year should help him (and the team) out going forward.

I don't know if it's good to throw young guys right into the fire, but Adames really isn't a #2/3 hitter with his .221/.285/.449/.734 slash line. He's probably better served in the #5/6 hole. Would the team be gutsy enough to put the rookie at #2 (I think Yelich is cemented in at leadoff). Having two guys who get on base in front of the home run hitters seems like a good idea.

We do not have enough Hiura threads.  Guy is buried.  Numbers are outstanding this year.  Even CC said that Ks aren't the big issue, more that he looks at the lineup overall and gets the group he likes best.  Problem is, he starts what, once or twice a week. Jerked around.... can't even blame him when he does play poorly anymore when you get to hit 7 times in a week.... should easily just be given the DH for 4/5 times a week, maybe an occasional start in the field and pulled late with a lead.  

Frelick is just sitting there too for a call up.  Wait around another week to call him up and it simply might be too late.  The house is burning and Stearns/CC are sitting on the couch eating popcorn.  We need offense in the starting lineup, and a 4th grader can see how that could be helped.  Losing these close, low scoring games a bunch this month.  A spark or two would help.  Worth it to try Hiura and Frelick, right? 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

2 hours ago, monty57 said:

Davis did put up good numbers at AAA this year. However, he's 30 and a career journeyman/AAAA guy, while Ruiz is 23 and has had a breakout season this year. 

There is reason to doubt that Ruiz is for real, but the fact that Davis hit well in his time in Nashville this year is not one of them.

Davis has not been horrible with the Brewers, posting a 0.5 WAR this year in 84 PA (mostly due to good defense). Meanwhile, Taylor has posted a 0.7 WAR in 304 PA.

Both of our CF "placeholders" have been average-ish. However, the AAA prospects are highly touted, so the hope is that they will be better than that. It's probably a good thing that our biggest "black hole" is still posting a positive WAR, and it is definitely a good thing that we get to debate over which one of our highly-touted MLB-ready prospects we should bring up.

I'm excited to see all of the AAA guys in Milwaukee. At this time, Frelick is the better prospect, so it makes sense to bring him up. I look forward to having another contact/OBP bat in the lineup. Maybe some of the solo shots will become two-run homers, and we'll be able to get a runner in from second once in a while.

Davis was used for context. You could have stopped at "there is reason to doubt Ruiz is for real" because there is. That tweet was simply a way to graphically illustrate it. Take Davis and his Nashville numbers out of the equation and it's still there for all to see - Ruiz has suffered a significant dropoff since leaving El Paso (-206 ops) as some warned may happen. And nothing he has done since joining the Brewers organization suggests he'd have a significant impact for the major league club other than perhaps as a pinch runner. That's a possible September role but it's certainly not a come up and take over the everyday CF role.

[StearnsFTW]

1 hour ago, YelichPosse said:

You aren't wrong.

Color me shocked somebody finally asked the question we have all been wondering. I almost fell out of my chair... wow.

I am not a huge supporter of Keston by any stretch of the imagination, but the eye test (and numbers) back up what happened last night.

I do not want to see Frelick or any of these guys come up and common sense goes out the window. That's all I am saying. Craig does, and has, always loved the veterans even if they dont "deserve" to keep playing over X Y or Z. That, I believe, is where a lot of the frustration lies, and concern is.

Seeing teams (ATL as a prime example) bring up guys from AA, actually quite often - and seeing the spark they bring, makes me wonder why we don't follow the same path. Service time or not. If you want to win sometimes you need to GO FOR IT. If that costs you some time of a prospect, I suppose to me that is worth making the playoffs vs. missing them. (all said that is absolutely not a given - but a spark can be the catalyst).

Expanding on this, what does the lineup look like if Frelick comes up to play every day?  I believe Hiura should be playing every day as well, so:

 

Yelich LF

Frelick CF

Adames SS

Tellez/Hiura 1B

Renfroe RF

Hiura/McCutchen DH

Narvaez/Caratini C

Wong 2B

Urias 3B

 

?

 

No matter which way I try it I end up with a LHH cluster and a RHH cluster which isn't ideal, but I don't see a way around it.

 

I have to admit I'll like the lineup more next year when Turang replaces Wong and McCutchen is gone.  Problem is we still won't have a #3 hitter.  Hell, maybe it's Hiura.  Adames should be hitting down in the order, like 6th.

[rickh150]

Just now, rickh150 said:

We do not have enough Hiura threads.  Guy is buried.  Numbers are outstanding this year.  Even CC said that Ks aren't the big issue, more that he looks at the lineup overall and gets the group he likes best.  Problem is, he starts what, once or twice a week. Jerked around.... can't even blame him when he does play poorly anymore when you get to hit 7 times in a week.... should easily just be given the DH for 4/5 times a week, maybe an occasional start in the field and pulled late with a lead.  

Frelick is just sitting there too for a call up.  Wait around another week to call him up and it simply might be too late.  The house is burning and Stearns/CC are sitting on the couch eating popcorn.  We need offense in the starting lineup, and a 4th grader can see how that could be helped.  Losing these close, low scoring games a bunch this month.  A spark or two would help.  Worth it to try Hiura and Frelick, right? 

Equivalent of only playing Mark Brouhard once (ALCS Game 4) in the entire 1982 postseason.  They had a DH spot too.

Brouhard opened the scoring with an RBI single. The Brewers cruised to a 7-0 lead behind a stellar outing from Moose Haas, but the Angels crept back and made things interesting thanks to a grand slam by Don Baylor. Brouhard slammed the door shut after that, though, bashing a two-run homer to bring Milwaukee a 9-5 victory. He closed the day at 3-for-4 with a double, a home run, three RBIs, and four runs scored (the latter tying a playoff record).

[YelichPosse]

Frelick would lengthen that lineup. Taylor would be a nice bat off the bench to be honest. He actually seems to be a decent PH if I recall correctly from last year as well. Think of Yelich and Frelick on base with their speed... it would be hard to not score any runs even with how this offense has been. Well hard(er) anyhow... hey I can dream!

[rickh150]

Or pitching Suppan Game 4 or Marcum Game 6..... that bad.   Or trading Hader for bits and pieces

[YelichPosse]

2 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Or pitching Suppan Game 4 or Marcum Game 6..... that bad.   Or trading Hader for bits and pieces

too soon. lol. I can't get that Marcum game 6 out of my head - that first inning alone was .... ugh. 

[monty57]

18 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Davis was used for context. You could have stopped at "there is reason to doubt Ruiz is for real" because there is. That tweet was simply a way to graphically illustrate it. Take Davis and his Nashville numbers out of the equation and it's still there for all to see - Ruiz has suffered a significant dropoff since leaving El Paso (-206 ops) as some warned may happen. And nothing he has done since joining the Brewers organization suggests he'd have a significant impact for the major league club other than perhaps as a pinch runner. That's a possible September role but it's certainly not a come up and take over the everyday CF role.

Ruiz has only had 43 ABs in Nashville, so not really enough of a sample size to be meaningful, but he has a .380 OBP (.729 OPS) in those 43 ABs. We need more OBP on the MLB roster.

I think Frelick is ahead of Ruiz on the depth chart, so he will likely be called up first, but Ruiz is still a talented player and I hope he is able to help the MLB club at some point. 

Davis is simply a journeyman. As a Brewers fan, I'm glad he was available and able to step in when Cain gave up on baseball. I'm also glad that he was able have some positive value in his tenure as a Brewer. I do not think that the possibility of losing Davis should in any way impact how the Brewers handle their prospects. We have four OFs in AAA who should be better than Davis right now, three of whom play CF as their natural position.

Service time is important, so I understand why they're waiting, but I am anxious to see one of these guys (probably Frelick) get his shot as our everyday CF, and I'm glad to see Taylor moving back to the 4th OF role he has been so good at playing.

[igor67]

If I am running Yelich and Frelick at the top of the lineup, I want my number 3 to be one of my not slow players and at least OK at making contact. Nothing like the K machine and GIDP to shortcut getting an early run on the board. I'd almost be tempted to go with Wong the rest of the way, but maybe Cutch/ Hiura platoon.