Bring Turang Up

[monty57]

Kolton Wong 

vs RHP (263 PA) .287 / .361 / .500 / .861  wRC+ 137
vs LHP (68 PA) .138 / .254 / .138 / .392  wrc+ 21

Mike Brosseau

vs RHP (47 PA) .220 / .319 / .366 / .685  wRC+ 96
vs LHP (70 PA) .317 / .386 / .524 / .910  wRC+ 154

There is no way Brosseau should be sent down. Instead, he should be in a strict platoon with Wong at 2B. While he's not a great defensive player overall, 2B is the one position where he has a positive UZR/150. We really need help against LHP, so I would not want to send down one of the few guys on the team who is actually hitting well against lefties.

I like Turang, and think he will be the starting 2B next year, but since he doesn't play 3B, I think we should probably wait to bring him up when we know he'll get regular playing time. If the thought is to replace Davis, then why not just bring up one of Ruiz / Frelick / Mitchell who are actually CFs?

Maybe it's just recency bias, but I'd really like to see what Ruiz can do, and he's already on the 40-man. The "problem" is that Taylor and Davis have both provided positive WAR this year. They're not great, but they're not horrible, so Stearns has to be pretty sure that the guy he's bringing up will be good, or else you're not really improving.

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, NBBrewFan said:

He was actually pretty bad the first 3 months then settled in and did most of his offensive damage the last 3 months.  There was an adjustment period that's hidden in the aggregate yearly data.  Turang would have even less time until the end of the year and I really doubt he would be playing every day, but maybe CC has a surprise left.

Yeah. I guess I'm hoping he can have an impact similar to some of the Cardinals' rookies. And, as per my main point, the defense doesn't require an adjustment period and we clearly need better infield defense. So, maybe a trial run until Peterson returns in a couple weeks? 

[NBBrewFan]

3 minutes ago, monty57 said:

Kolton Wong 

vs RHP (263 PA) .287 / .361 / .500 / .861  wRC+ 137
vs LHP (68 PA) .138 / .254 / .138 / .392  wrc+ 21

Mike Brosseau

vs RHP (47 PA) .220 / .319 / .366 / .685  wRC+ 96
vs LHP (70 PA) .317 / .386 / .524 / .910  wRC+ 154

There is no way Brosseau should be sent down. Instead, he should be in a strict platoon with Wong at 2B. While he's not a great defensive player overall, 2B is the one position where he has a positive UZR/150. We really need help against LHP, so I would not want to send down one of the few guys on the team who is actually hitting well against lefties.

I like Turang, and think he will be the starting 2B next year, but since he doesn't play 3B, I think we should probably wait to bring him up when we know he'll get regular playing time. If the thought is to replace Davis, then why not just bring up one of Ruiz / Frelick / Mitchell who are actually CFs?

Maybe it's just recency bias, but I'd really like to see what Ruiz can do, and he's already on the 40-man. The "problem" is that Taylor and Davis have both provided positive WAR this year. They're not great, but they're not horrible, so Stearns has to be pretty sure that the guy he's bringing up will be good, or else you're not really improving.

Thanks Monty for looking up the data.  I did a quick check yesterday for Brosseau and Pederson platoon compared to Urias and there was also a compelling argument they should platoon at 3B and Urias should be the super utility guy (which is moot until Pederson is back). If we were at full strength a little platooning around the diamond could get more production without any cost.

[monty57]

57 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I don't think Turang is Rule V eligible until after next season....I think he's going to have (and deserve) every opportunity to be on the Brewers' Opening Day 2023 roster, and frankly I'd prefer that instead of starting his service clock this year.  If the Brewers are going to turn things around at the MLB level, the middle infielders already on their roster have got to be better.  Adames, Wong, and Urias performing more like they did last season would cure a ton of offensive and defensive ills on the infield.

I've long been a huge fan of Turang despite knowing he's never going to turn into a power bat - his defensive ability and hit tool for avg/obp plus speed gives him a ton of value as an everyday SS/2B option for the Brewers next year.

Offensively, Wong is fine if they'd stop using him against lefties. Defensively, I don't know what happened, but he went from "best 2B glove in the game" to negative defensive value.

As to Adames and Urias, the "eye test" would say that they should stop swinging for the fences on every single pitch. The extra handful of HR they hit isn't worth all the OBP they're sacrificing. But, I think that's a losing battle, because everyone's swinging for the fences these days, and that's what people seem to be handing out big contracts for.

If Turang doesn't change his approach, his bat-to-ball skills will be a welcome addition when he finally arrives.

[NBBrewFan]

4 minutes ago, monty57 said:

Offensively, Wong is fine if they'd stop using him against lefties. Defensively, I don't know what happened, but he went from "best 2B glove in the game" to negative defensive value.

It's been a progressive decline from 2019 to 2021 then a big drop this year.  He seemed to have a good glove last year, but even that was much worse than his 2019 and his 2020 (although abbreviated) showed a decline from 2019.  I'm just surprised he is so bad this year.  It's usually a slow decline like he had from 2019 to 2021, not the bottom falling out.

[monty57]

2 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

Thanks Monty for looking up the data.  I did a quick check yesterday for Brosseau and Pederson platoon compared to Urias and there was also a compelling argument they should platoon at 3B and Urias should be the super utility guy (which is moot until Pederson is back). If we were at full strength a little platooning around the diamond could get more production without any cost.

Defensively, Urias has been pretty bad at 3B this year, but he had positive value the past two seasons, so hopefully things can even out.

Offensively, he has a 105 wRC+ vs LHP, and a 101 vs RHP, so he hasn't shown that he needs to be platooned. He's only 25 and still under team control for a long time, so I don't think I'd want to transition him to a "super utility" guy or a platoon/bench guy. He's too important for the Brewers' future. Let's just hope he works through the defensive issues, which I think he can.

Peterson has been a nice player for the Brewers this year, but he's a free agent this offseason and his play should merit a multi-year deal. With the Brewers' arby raises and payroll constraints, I think that will probably be elsewhere, so when he gets healthy I'd keep him in the role he's played so well this year.

[NBBrewFan]

2 hours ago, monty57 said:

Peterson has been a nice player for the Brewers this year, but he's a free agent this offseason and his play should merit a multi-year deal. With the Brewers' arby raises and payroll constraints, I think that will probably be elsewhere, so when he gets healthy I'd keep him in the role he's played so well this year.

I'd support keeping him even if it means a 3 year deal.  Cain, Hader, Narvaez and McCutcheon are all off the books.  Spending say $15M total ($5M/yr) on Jace would be a better investment than almost any $10M per on a 1/2 year deal they bring in from another player. 

My issue with Urias is that I don't think his defense will work at 3B and his offense isn't horrible, but is not great for a corner IF position.  I'd support shifting him to 2nd, but that means we need to find a 3B and those aren't easy or cheap.  If they did sign Jace to a multi-year and kept Brosseau then I would advocate they platoon them at 3B, move Urias to 2B and look at Turang in CF.  Then the savings left after Arby increases can go to a RH Platoon at 1B for Rowdy and resurrect the relief pitching.  While that may only tweak the formula from this year, it would keep most of the team intact for another run in 2023.

[monty57]

21 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

I'd support keeping him even if it means a 3 year deal.  Cain, Hader, Narvaez and McCutcheon are all off the books.  Spending say $15M on Jace would be a better investment than almost any $10M per on a 1/2 year deal they bring in from another player. 

My issue with Urias is that I don't think his defense will work at 3B and his offense isn't horrible, but is not great for a corner IF position.  I'd support shifting him to 2nd, but that means we need to find a 3B and those aren't easy or cheap.  If they did sign Jace to a multi-year and kept Brosseau then I would advocate they platoon them at 3B, move Urias to 2B and look at Turang in CF.  Then the savings left after Arby increases can go to a RH Platoon at 1B for Rowdy and resurrect the relief pitching.  While that may only tweak the formula from this year, it would keep most of the team intact for another run in 2023.

I'm not against re-signing Peterson, it just depends on what teams are offering him. He's 32 and is having a career year, posting a 2.0 WAR (Fangraphs) with some season left to go. His previous high was 1.1 WAR all the way back in 2016. He should do everything he can to cash in on what could be his final MLB contract. If the price is right, I wouldn't be against it, but he could very easily revert back to the near replacement-level player he's been most of his career so I wouldn't pay too much. My guess is that some other team is going to offer him more than the Brewers, but I wouldn't be upset if he's back.

As to Turang, I know they've used him in CF, and he's a good defender so I'm sure he could play there. My concern is that we have a lot of OF prospects and few infield prospects, so I'd be hesitant to move a slick-fielding middle infielder to OF, when we have four near-MLB ready OFs in Nashville right now, three of whom play CF.

For '23, I'd go with an infield of Turang, Urias and Adames, with Brosseau as a utitiy IF who starts mainly when a lefty is on the mound. Rating defense, it's probably Turang, Adames, Urias, Brosseau best to worst, but they probably won't move the veteran for the rookie, so Adames will probably stay at SS. Since Urias plays 3B and Turang hasn't, I'd stick with Urias at 3B, with Turang at 2B. Looking at splits, none of Adames, Urias or Turang need a platoon partner, with the caveat that Turang is still only a prospect. 

To the topic of "Bring Turang up," my biggest concerns are (1) there isn't an easy answer for who we should jettison, and (2) he would probably spend most of his time on the bench in which case he'd be better off playing every day in Nashville. I'm very excited that some of our position playing prospects are getting ready for the show. I just want to make sure that when they get here they will play. I don't want to see them come up and ride the pine.