Trade Rumor: Brewers Pursuing Nationals' Josh Bell

[Jopal78]

3 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Why would Bell bring back substantially more than Benentendi? Bell does provide more power, but he's also more streaky career-wise. Also, Benentendi is a solid if not elite corner OF defender who could also play CF. Bell provides no defensive value.

This isn't the first time you've denigrated Josh Bell, but you can't have it both ways. Sure Benintendi is a better defender than Josh Bell, but its not even a comparison as to which is the better hitter. This year alone Bell's OPS in 90 points higher than Benintendi's. You can also argue Bell is the more patient hitter with a .387 OBP and a batting average of .302, while Benintendi's OBP is also .387 but with a .320 batting average. Bell's career OBP is .353 to Benintendi's .352. 

As for being "streaky," players are going to have good months and bad months, For example, Benintendi's OPS was .664 in June. Josh Bell wasn't alone in having a down year during the covid ball season, but pretty much has been the model of consistency year in year out his entire career.

I have no idea if Josh Bell will wind up with the Brewers or not, but as I've posted before every contender in the league can find at bats for an .877 OPS hitter.  

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

5 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

This isn't the first time you've denigrated Josh Bell, but you can't have it both ways. Sure Benintendi is a better defender than Josh Bell, but its not even a comparison as to which is the better hitter. This year alone Bell's OPS in 90 points higher than Benintendi's. You can also argue Bell is the more patient hitter with a .387 OBP and a batting average of .302, while Benintendi's OBP is also .387 but with a .320 batting average. Bell's career OBP is .353 to Benintendi's .352. 

As for being "streaky," players are going to have good months and bad months, For example, Benintendi's OPS was .664 in June. Josh Bell wasn't alone in having a down year during the covid ball season, but pretty much has been the model of consistency year in year out his entire career.

I have no idea if Josh Bell will wind up with the Brewers or not, but as I've posted before every contender in the league can find at bats for an .877 OPS hitter.  

It isn't so much that I'm denigrating Bell. He's a quality DH bat. But defense has value. A all-around player who can hit like Benintendi and play good OF defense is going to be more valuable than a bat-only 1B/DH, even if the bat-only guy has more power and a better overall bat. That was my whole argument ... that I don't believe Bell is going to bring back substantially more value in a deal than Benintendi did. I expect the returns to be pretty similar value-wise. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

5 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

This isn't the first time you've denigrated Josh Bell, but you can't have it both ways. Sure Benintendi is a better defender than Josh Bell, but its not even a comparison as to which is the better hitter. This year alone Bell's OPS in 90 points higher than Benintendi's. You can also argue Bell is the more patient hitter with a .387 OBP and a batting average of .302, while Benintendi's OBP is also .387 but with a .320 batting average. Bell's career OBP is .353 to Benintendi's .352. 

As for being "streaky," players are going to have good months and bad months, For example, Benintendi's OPS was .664 in June. Josh Bell wasn't alone in having a down year during the covid ball season, but pretty much has been the model of consistency year in year out his entire career.

I have no idea if Josh Bell will wind up with the Brewers or not, but as I've posted before every contender in the league can find at bats for an .877 OPS hitter.  

It isn't so much that I'm denigrating Bell. He's a quality DH bat. But defense has value. A all-around player who can hit like Benintendi and play good OF defense is going to be more valuable than a bat-only 1B/DH, even if the bat-only guy has more power and a better overall bat. That was my whole argument ... that I don't believe Bell is going to bring back substantially more value in a deal than Benintendi did. I expect the returns to be pretty similar value-wise. 

[Joseph Zarr]

OK. Hook line and sink, I'm baited.

I'm going to assume, given the recent comments, y'all don't watch 22 yo Brice Turang play on the regular? He's a fantastic baseball player. He's already the best player on the Sounds. He's gotten much better this season. He's literally just tapping into his power stroke. You don't trade this young man for a Josh Bell rental. No way. No how. I'm sorry, you just absolutely do not. Turang could very very easily be the Brewers starting shortstop or 2B today. He's that good. Smooth doesn't begin to cover how incredibly, well, smooth ? he is. He's a manager's dream. If you're dealing Turang, you're going for much bigger fish.

[Joseph Zarr]

OK. Hook line and sink, I'm baited.

I'm going to assume, given the recent comments, y'all don't watch 22 yo Brice Turang play on the regular? He's a fantastic baseball player. He's already the best player on the Sounds. He's gotten much better this season. He's literally just tapping into his power stroke. You don't trade this young man for a Josh Bell rental. No way. No how. I'm sorry, you just absolutely do not. Turang could very very easily be the Brewers starting shortstop or 2B today. He's that good. Smooth doesn't begin to cover how incredibly, well, smooth ? he is. He's a manager's dream. If you're dealing Turang, you're going for much bigger fish.

[StearnsFTW]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

OK. Hook line and sink, I'm baited.

I'm going to assume, given the recent comments, y'all don't watch 22 yo Brice Turang play on the regular? He's a fantastic baseball player. He's already the best player on the Sounds. He's gotten much better this season. He's literally just tapping into his power stroke. You don't trade this young man for a Josh Bell rental. No way. No how. I'm sorry, you just absolutely do not. Turang could very very easily be the Brewers starting shortstop or 2B today. He's that good. Smooth doesn't begin to cover how incredibly, well, smooth ? he is. He's a manager's dream. If you're dealing Turang, you're going for much bigger fish.

Well you've definitely seen him more than I have so I'll defer to you somewhat.

 

If he can indeed become a .420+ slugging guy, he's far more valuable than I'm giving him credit for.

 

I'm skeptical, but hoping you're right. 

[StearnsFTW]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

OK. Hook line and sink, I'm baited.

I'm going to assume, given the recent comments, y'all don't watch 22 yo Brice Turang play on the regular? He's a fantastic baseball player. He's already the best player on the Sounds. He's gotten much better this season. He's literally just tapping into his power stroke. You don't trade this young man for a Josh Bell rental. No way. No how. I'm sorry, you just absolutely do not. Turang could very very easily be the Brewers starting shortstop or 2B today. He's that good. Smooth doesn't begin to cover how incredibly, well, smooth ? he is. He's a manager's dream. If you're dealing Turang, you're going for much bigger fish.

Well you've definitely seen him more than I have so I'll defer to you somewhat.

 

If he can indeed become a .420+ slugging guy, he's far more valuable than I'm giving him credit for.

 

I'm skeptical, but hoping you're right. 

[SRB]

I feel like Turang is a bit underrated because of the (so far) lack of power. If he is indeed a plus defender up the middle, that's incredibly valuable even without much power. Tommy Edman is on track for a 5 fWAR season based on a similar batting line to what Turang might be able to produce and great defense at SS/2B.

[SRB]

I feel like Turang is a bit underrated because of the (so far) lack of power. If he is indeed a plus defender up the middle, that's incredibly valuable even without much power. Tommy Edman is on track for a 5 fWAR season based on a similar batting line to what Turang might be able to produce and great defense at SS/2B.

[Brewcrew82]

6 minutes ago, SRB said:

I feel like Turang is a bit underrated because of the (so far) lack of power. If he is indeed a plus defender up the middle, that's incredibly valuable even without much power. Tommy Edman is on track for a 5 fWAR season based on a similar batting line to what Turang might be able to produce and great defense at SS/2B.

Exactly. Turang is rated as a 60 grade defender by most services. So, if he can continue to hit around .280-.300 with a high OBP and even a little power, he should prove to be quite valuable. 

[Brewcrew82]

6 minutes ago, SRB said:

I feel like Turang is a bit underrated because of the (so far) lack of power. If he is indeed a plus defender up the middle, that's incredibly valuable even without much power. Tommy Edman is on track for a 5 fWAR season based on a similar batting line to what Turang might be able to produce and great defense at SS/2B.

Exactly. Turang is rated as a 60 grade defender by most services. So, if he can continue to hit around .280-.300 with a high OBP and even a little power, he should prove to be quite valuable. 

[Lathund]

And the thing about a multi-positional excellent defender is that it's very easy to fit them onto the roster to give them the time and regular at bats to properly give them the chance to tap into their potential. 

[Lathund]

And the thing about a multi-positional excellent defender is that it's very easy to fit them onto the roster to give them the time and regular at bats to properly give them the chance to tap into their potential. 

[jay87shot]

10 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Why would Bell bring back substantially more than Benentendi? Bell does provide more power, but he's also more streaky career-wise. Also, Benentendi is a solid if not elite corner OF defender who could also play CF. Bell provides no defensive value.

Bell .303/.387/.877 13 HR(39 xbh) 53 RBI 50 runs 3.3 WAR, 

Benentendi .320/.387/.785 3 HR(19xbh) 39 RBI, 40 runs 2.4 WAR

All those extra base hits mean runs, I would also think that there are more teams looking for a middle of the order bats. 

[jay87shot]

10 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Why would Bell bring back substantially more than Benentendi? Bell does provide more power, but he's also more streaky career-wise. Also, Benentendi is a solid if not elite corner OF defender who could also play CF. Bell provides no defensive value.

Bell .303/.387/.877 13 HR(39 xbh) 53 RBI 50 runs 3.3 WAR, 

Benentendi .320/.387/.785 3 HR(19xbh) 39 RBI, 40 runs 2.4 WAR

All those extra base hits mean runs, I would also think that there are more teams looking for a middle of the order bats. 

[titletownking]

8 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

Bell .303/.387/.877 13 HR(39 xbh) 53 RBI 50 runs 3.3 WAR, 

Benentendi .320/.387/.785 3 HR(19xbh) 39 RBI, 40 runs 2.4 WAR

All those extra base hits mean runs, I would also think that there are more teams looking for a middle of the order bats. 

Kris Bryant didn’t bring back nearly that much as a rental last year. He fetched the Cubs a top 10 prospect and a top 20 from a very average Giants system. Couldn’t imagine Bell would bring back more than a top 10(8-10) and a lotto. Gonna throw out a guess of Freddy Zamora and Castaneda. 

[titletownking]

8 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

Bell .303/.387/.877 13 HR(39 xbh) 53 RBI 50 runs 3.3 WAR, 

Benentendi .320/.387/.785 3 HR(19xbh) 39 RBI, 40 runs 2.4 WAR

All those extra base hits mean runs, I would also think that there are more teams looking for a middle of the order bats. 

Kris Bryant didn’t bring back nearly that much as a rental last year. He fetched the Cubs a top 10 prospect and a top 20 from a very average Giants system. Couldn’t imagine Bell would bring back more than a top 10(8-10) and a lotto. Gonna throw out a guess of Freddy Zamora and Castaneda. 

[JCREW]

I wonder if the specter of a Soto trade is holding up Bell action… especially if the Nats are seeking high minors guys. 
 

if the Padres were leading with Campusano for Soto, the Nats might not be bullish on a Bell deal that led with someone like Feliciano or Quero. 

[JCREW]

I wonder if the specter of a Soto trade is holding up Bell action… especially if the Nats are seeking high minors guys. 
 

if the Padres were leading with Campusano for Soto, the Nats might not be bullish on a Bell deal that led with someone like Feliciano or Quero. 

[Brewcrew82]

9 minutes ago, JCREW said:

I wonder if the specter of a Soto trade is holding up Bell action… especially if the Nats are seeking high minors guys. 
 

if the Padres were leading with Campusano for Soto, the Nats might not be bullish on a Bell deal that led with someone like Feliciano or Quero. 

Everything I've read is that the Nats wanna resolve the Bell situation first so they can focus all their attention on Soto. 

[Brewcrew82]

9 minutes ago, JCREW said:

I wonder if the specter of a Soto trade is holding up Bell action… especially if the Nats are seeking high minors guys. 
 

if the Padres were leading with Campusano for Soto, the Nats might not be bullish on a Bell deal that led with someone like Feliciano or Quero. 

Everything I've read is that the Nats wanna resolve the Bell situation first so they can focus all their attention on Soto. 

[UpandIn]

12 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

I wouldn't lose sleep over losing Turang, as I agree that his ceiling looks pretty limited. I mean, what is his ceiling? At his peak, he might be a borderline all-star on a bad team? (.290/.370/.430)? It's really hard for me to imagine getting more production than that from him, and he very well could end up being significantly less than that. At the same time, he's a very good defender, fast, and a lefty-stick, so a nice player to have for the next 6 seasons.

My problem is that this year's rental market is pretty weak. No one is a sure-fire improvement, and I believe that includes Bell (as Tellez has shown flashes and Bell has shown months-long slumps). I mentioned it in a different thread, but I wonder if a Tellez for Bell swap would make sense for both teams?

I dunno, Bell just doesn't inspire me. (Also, I am guilty of really liking Tellez).

.290/.370/.430 while playing SS with plus speed and defense...seems like that's be incredibly valuable. *****, it'd fit like a dream right now in this lineup. Throw him in at CF, 2B, a SS in a few years if Willy isn't extended. The exact type of player we've been missing. Someone who can hit for a solid average and get on base while providing a lot of defensive value(he's played CF). 

In fact, it sounds like Benintendi, but not limited to LF(or a CF if a team is forced to give up Defense for offense).

I've also been a big Turang fan for several years...since they drafted him. I love the hit tool, the plate discipline, speed and the defense. You could do a lot worse for a top of the order hitter.

I'd be completely out on Bell if it included Turang.

[UpandIn]

12 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

I wouldn't lose sleep over losing Turang, as I agree that his ceiling looks pretty limited. I mean, what is his ceiling? At his peak, he might be a borderline all-star on a bad team? (.290/.370/.430)? It's really hard for me to imagine getting more production than that from him, and he very well could end up being significantly less than that. At the same time, he's a very good defender, fast, and a lefty-stick, so a nice player to have for the next 6 seasons.

My problem is that this year's rental market is pretty weak. No one is a sure-fire improvement, and I believe that includes Bell (as Tellez has shown flashes and Bell has shown months-long slumps). I mentioned it in a different thread, but I wonder if a Tellez for Bell swap would make sense for both teams?

I dunno, Bell just doesn't inspire me. (Also, I am guilty of really liking Tellez).

.290/.370/.430 while playing SS with plus speed and defense...seems like that's be incredibly valuable. *****, it'd fit like a dream right now in this lineup. Throw him in at CF, 2B, a SS in a few years if Willy isn't extended. The exact type of player we've been missing. Someone who can hit for a solid average and get on base while providing a lot of defensive value(he's played CF). 

In fact, it sounds like Benintendi, but not limited to LF(or a CF if a team is forced to give up Defense for offense).

I've also been a big Turang fan for several years...since they drafted him. I love the hit tool, the plate discipline, speed and the defense. You could do a lot worse for a top of the order hitter.

I'd be completely out on Bell if it included Turang.

[Playing Catch]

9 hours ago, UpandIn said:

.290/.370/.430 while playing SS with plus speed and defense...seems like that's be incredibly valuable. *****, it'd fit like a dream right now in this lineup. Throw him in at CF, 2B, a SS in a few years if Willy isn't extended. The exact type of player we've been missing. Someone who can hit for a solid average and get on base while providing a lot of defensive value(he's played CF). 

In fact, it sounds like Benintendi, but not limited to LF(or a CF if a team is forced to give up Defense for offense).

I've also been a big Turang fan for several years...since they drafted him. I love the hit tool, the plate discipline, speed and the defense. You could do a lot worse for a top of the order hitter.

I'd be completely out on Bell if it included Turang.

Yes. If Turang reaches that stat line that I previously posted as his prospective ceiling, he WOULD be a borderline all-star, and should not be traded for a rental like Bell. But we don't know that he will become that.

Like most prospects, he probably will not reach that ceiling. I would guess that over his first 6 years in MLB, his 6 year slash line would MOST LIKELY look more like .240/.330/.380 (with good defense, speed, lefty-stick). Still a legitimate big-leaguer, but pretty replaceable. If they trade THAT player for Bell, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. But as I previously stated, I'm not sure Bell is even worth it. If the team is dead set on "going for it," (whatever that means), then they need to trade like they mean it. They need to trade whomever it takes to get a guy like Soto/Reynolds/[insert superstar here].

That would not be my preference, as I think I'd prefer that they simply sit tight this year (probably an unpopular opinion).

[Playing Catch]

9 hours ago, UpandIn said:

.290/.370/.430 while playing SS with plus speed and defense...seems like that's be incredibly valuable. *****, it'd fit like a dream right now in this lineup. Throw him in at CF, 2B, a SS in a few years if Willy isn't extended. The exact type of player we've been missing. Someone who can hit for a solid average and get on base while providing a lot of defensive value(he's played CF). 

In fact, it sounds like Benintendi, but not limited to LF(or a CF if a team is forced to give up Defense for offense).

I've also been a big Turang fan for several years...since they drafted him. I love the hit tool, the plate discipline, speed and the defense. You could do a lot worse for a top of the order hitter.

I'd be completely out on Bell if it included Turang.

Yes. If Turang reaches that stat line that I previously posted as his prospective ceiling, he WOULD be a borderline all-star, and should not be traded for a rental like Bell. But we don't know that he will become that.

Like most prospects, he probably will not reach that ceiling. I would guess that over his first 6 years in MLB, his 6 year slash line would MOST LIKELY look more like .240/.330/.380 (with good defense, speed, lefty-stick). Still a legitimate big-leaguer, but pretty replaceable. If they trade THAT player for Bell, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. But as I previously stated, I'm not sure Bell is even worth it. If the team is dead set on "going for it," (whatever that means), then they need to trade like they mean it. They need to trade whomever it takes to get a guy like Soto/Reynolds/[insert superstar here].

That would not be my preference, as I think I'd prefer that they simply sit tight this year (probably an unpopular opinion).