Realignment

[mtsportsfan]

10 hours ago, JosephC said:

I think they would have to start with something like this-

A League = Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Angels, Cubs, White Sox

B League = Phillies, Rangers, Giants, Braves, Astros, Red Sox

C League = Nationals, Diamondbacks, Mariners, Twins, Tigers, Blue Jays

D League = Rockies, Marlins, Guardians, Cardinals, Padres, Orioles

E League = Pirates, Royals, Rays, A's, Brewers, Reds

Do that for just 2 years, then demote the E League to AAA status, that way the Yankees and Mets do not have to waste national TV contract money on completely irrelevant markets like Cincinnati and Milwaukee.

Then take what's left and go with this-

American League East = Yankees, White Sox, Tigers, Blue Jays, Marlins, Orioles

American League West = Angels, Rangers, Astros, Mariners, Twins, Guardians

National League East = Red Sox, Mets, Cubs, Phillies, Braves, Nationals

National League West = Dodgers, Giants, Diamondbacks, Rockies, Cardinals, Padres

Red Sox had to get flipped to the National League because it holds the potential for a Yankees/Red Sox World Series which is the only thing that matters because it's what TV execs want the most.

Top 8 teams in each League go to the playoffs.  Bracket nerds can have their fun with the mini 16-team bracket format.

This folks, is MLB, MLBPA and TVs wet dream right here.

Unfortunately this is the sad reality of MLB , and they probably could live with this . 

[Dave_Not_Here]

On 7/23/2022 at 7:13 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

I'm of the opinion MLB should expand to 32 and eight four team divisions should be created.

I agree.  

 

I'd also say that if MLB were to expand to 32 teams, that would be the time to look at a realignment. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, Dave_Not_Here said:

I agree.  

I'd also say that if MLB were to expand to 32 teams, that would be the time to look at a realignment. 

It makes so much sense across the board, I just wish MLB would do it. They haven't expanded in 25 years now, it's time to do so.

And expansion ends MLB letting the A's and Rays attempt to blackmail their respective cities for a new stadium. Let them falter or thrive on their own and relocate if necessary but the entire sport shouldn't be held up by two teams, neither of which I have a lot of respect for anymore (due to ownership, not anything the players have done).

[Dave_Not_Here]

2 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

It makes so much sense across the board, I just wish MLB would do it. They haven't expanded in 25 years now, it's time to do so.

And expansion ends MLB letting the A's and Rays attempt to blackmail their respective cities for a new stadium. Let them falter or thrive on their own and relocate if necessary but the entire sport shouldn't be held up by two teams, neither of which I have a lot of respect for anymore (due to ownership, not anything the players have done).

I've kind of wondered for a while if MLB is waiting to expand until the A's and Rays either settle their stadium situation in their current locations, or relocate. 

If both teams decided to relocate, and the rest of the league okays relocation, it would probably be to cities already on a short list of expansion possibilities. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, Dave_Not_Here said:

I've kind of wondered for a while if MLB is waiting to expand until the A's and Rays either settle their stadium situation in their current locations, or relocate. 

Oh, they absolutely are doing that. They want those two teams to have as much leverage as possible but it has taken way too long. For the good of the league, they need to just let those two teams figure it out on their own.

[MadThinker88]

40 minutes ago, Dave_Not_Here said:

I've kind of wondered for a while if MLB is waiting to expand until the A's and Rays either settle their stadium situation in their current locations, or relocate. 

If both teams decided to relocate, and the rest of the league okays relocation, it would probably be to cities already on a short list of expansion possibilities. 

Great point.. The determination of a site for a new major league ball club is only the tip of logistical iceberg.. 

How would the minor league setups be impacted.  If for example Nashville did not get a relocated team but did get an expansion club, where does the MKE AAA affiliation go?  What cities are the minors expanded into so that 2 new clubs have 4 full season minor league clubs each??

After the contraction of minor league clubs happened a few years back, the newly signed PDA (Player Development Agreements) items were for 10 years in length. In the past those agreements were for 2 year increments which made for some occasional chaos but also allowed for easier change & adjustments.  

One other point: Yes it has been a while since MLB expanded but that time since has also allowed MLB to consider how they want to set up a new club..  How did it go last time?  What aspects of the prior expansion worked and did not work?? How many drafts & years of minor league games does the new club get BEFORE having to put a new team onto a major league field???

[nate82]

25 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

It makes so much sense across the board, I just wish MLB would do it. They haven't expanded in 25 years now, it's time to do so.

And expansion ends MLB letting the A's and Rays attempt to blackmail their respective cities for a new stadium. Let them falter or thrive on their own and relocate if necessary but the entire sport shouldn't be held up by two teams, neither of which I have a lot of respect for anymore (due to ownership, not anything the players have done).

The next time expansion will come up is in the next CBA which should be around when the Rays and A's should have their stadium issues either cleared up, settled or have moved.  The A's and Rays could eliminate two of the cities that MLB is looking to expand to so that is why expansion is currently on hold.  MLB wants to expand and will expand once the Rays and A's stadium situations are solved for.  The A's look like they will be staying in Oakland and the Rays look like they are on their way out. 

In the scenario of the A's staying in Oakland that open ups Vegas as a city and that will be the west coast team.  Depending on where the Rays go (Charlotte, Nashville, Jacksonville or Montreal) that leaves one of those four cities getting an expansion team.  I think the Rays go to Charlotte which leaves Nashville and Montreal as option 1a and 1b.  This will all depend on who can get a good ownership group and a stadium bill passed.  I think if Nashville gets a MLB team then the Sounds will move from Nashville to Montreal with MLB paying the bill for this.

If the A's move to Vegas and the Rays move to Charlotte then I think Nashville and Montreal get teams.  If the Rays and A's both stay then we could possibly see 4 new teams.  Las Vegas, Austin, Nashville and Charlotte/Montreal would be the four cities that get teams which then the MLB would be more like the NBA 17 teams in each league and no divisions with the teams divided by geographic location.

With 34 teams I think this is what MLB realignment would look like.

AL:

1. Yankees
2. Red Sox
3. Blue Jays
4. Mets
5. Phillies
6. Pirates
7. Nationals
8. Orioles
9. Reds
10. Guardians
11. Tigers
12. Marlins
13. Rays
14. Nashville
15. Charlotte
16. Braves
17. Astros

NL:

1. Cubs
2. White Sox
3. Brewers
4. Cardinals
5. Rangers
6. Las Vegas
7. Austin
8. A's
9. Diamondbacks
10. Rockies
11. Dodgers
12. Padres
13. Giants
14. Twins
15. Royals
16. Angels
17. Mariners

[Underachiever]

Not to derail, but I cannot believe how awful Oakland’s stadium is. Cannot believe it’s a viable mlb facility. I’m on a quest to get to every park. It is so far below every (still existing) park I’ve been to.

[brewcrewdue80]

Forget expansion. Retract to 28 teams. If they're reducing division playing games and playing eachother. Saturate the talent with more money to pay them. Play more 4 game series, less travel.  7teams making playoffs each conference is half the league.  2 teams; 52 less availble players playing nightly will help improve the product fans see. Revenue shared is increased to the remaining receiving teams. 

Making 32 to have 8 divisions now you're awarding 2 more auto qualify playoff teams which with saturating the league with less talented players likely sees below .500 team yearly qualifying while a wild card team misses with a better record. Remember we're playing everybody more equally so a bad 4team division can't have 1 team sneak above .500 because somebody wins when playing versus eachother. It would work I suppose if they adopted top 3 division winners auto bids and best 4 remaining records qualify for playoffs.

[sveumrules]

Eight divisions of four teams each feels inevitable once they expand, but I’d prefer four divisions of eight teams each.

Something like…

ALE: NYY, BOS, TOR, BAL, TB, DET, CLE, CHW

ALW: SEA, OAK, LAA, HOU, TEX, MIN, KC,(expansion)

NLE: NYM, ATL, PHI, WAS, MIA, PIT, CIN, (expansion)

NLW: SFG, LAD, SDP, ARI, COL, STL, CHC, MIL

Schedule could be 3 each x inter league (48 games) + 6 each x opposite division (48 games) + 9 each x division rivals (63 games) = 159 games.

Last three games could be flexible scheduling with borderline playoff teams playing each other, top two in the division if its close, or out of the race teams playing for draft position (win the series, move up a spot).

[Brewcrew82]

I’ll take anything that gets us out of the Cardinals’ division…

[nate82]

2 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

 

Forget expansion. Retract to 28 teams. If they're reducing division playing games and playing eachother.

 

The Brewers would 1000% be one of the teams to be retracted.  Probably the Rays, A’s and Royals being the other 3 maybe the Pirates instead of the Rays or Royals.  

[brewcrewdue80]

1 hour ago, nate82 said:

The Brewers would 1000% be one of the teams to be retracted.  Probably the Rays, A’s and Royals being the other 3 maybe the Pirates instead of the Rays or Royals.  

Currently there are 30 teams.  Only 2 teams to be retracted.  Money would be A's and Rays with Pittsburgh 3rd.  Consistent top 18 fan attendance.  I'd even wonder on Baltimore and Miami in the mix.  All 5 teams before Milwaukee.  Seattle too.

[clancyphile]

Expansion teams: Las Vegas, Charlotte

NL East: Mets, Nationals, Phillies, Pirates

NL South: Braves, Marlins, Charlotte, Reds

NL North: Cubs, Brewers, Cardinals, Rockies

NL West: Dodgers, Giants, Diamondbacks, Padres

AL East: Red Sox, Yankees, Blue Jays, Orioles

AL South: Rays, Astros, Rangers, Royals

AL North: Guardians, White Sox, Tigers, Twins

AL West: Mariners, Angels, A's, Las Vegas

Each division winner and the top four non-division winners in each league make the playoffs.

First round: Best of 5

Division Series: Best of 5

LCS: Best of 7

World Series: Best of 7

[nate82]

6 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Currently there are 30 teams.  Only 2 teams to be retracted.  Money would be A's and Rays with Pittsburgh 3rd.  Consistent top 18 fan attendance.  I'd even wonder on Baltimore and Miami in the mix.  All 5 teams before Milwaukee.  Seattle too.

No the Brewers would be a team that would be retracted there is no doubt about it.  Milwaukee will be in a perpetual situation of needing revenue sharing same with the Royals.  Royals and Brewers are teams 1a and 1b for retraction.  
 

If the Brewers wouldn’t have received a new stadium they were going to be retracted from the league.  They wouldn’t have moved they were going to be removed completely from the league before the Miller Park deal went through.  Milwaukee is just a poor spot for a team in MLB.  The media market is the smallest and even their attendance doesn’t help all that much.  If the league retracts it is a guarantee that the Brewers will be one of the teams.  

[brewcrewdue80]

1 hour ago, nate82 said:

No the Brewers would be a team that would be retracted there is no doubt about it.  Milwaukee will be in a perpetual situation of needing revenue sharing same with the Royals.  Royals and Brewers are teams 1a and 1b for retraction.  
 

If the Brewers wouldn’t have received a new stadium they were going to be retracted from the league.  They wouldn’t have moved they were going to be removed completely from the league before the Miller Park deal went through.  Milwaukee is just a poor spot for a team in MLB.  The media market is the smallest and even their attendance doesn’t help all that much.  If the league retracts it is a guarantee that the Brewers will be one of the teams.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes_list_of_the_most_valuable_MLB_clubs

 

Milw sits 25th. I seen a 2021 page that showed Milw had the 18th highest revenue that season.

You're right about Kansas City being near certainty for retraction. Miami though is the worst in all of baseball consistently. Tampa #2. Oakland. Still feeling 1000%? This isn't pre-Miller Park. The franchise has moved up from bottom of the barrel 20+years later.

Miami would save thousands of miles for each team traveling expenses. A stadium saved them but they are still bottom of barrel. 

Oakland is on the clock with being saved. I think those 2 teams are 1a/1b. 

Surprised Pittsburgh was/is ahead of Milw because it's blatant their managing of the franchise will make no attempts of winning. It's been 30 years since a division title carried by Bonds.  3 wildcards total since then carried by McCuthchen.  There isn't a division title coming for them at least 3 more years from now at best. 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

On 1/7/2023 at 2:36 PM, Underachiever said:

Not to derail, but I cannot believe how awful Oakland’s stadium is. Cannot believe it’s a viable mlb facility. I’m on a quest to get to every park. It is so far below every (still existing) park I’ve been to.

Out of curiosity, have you been to Tropicana yet? I've driven by Oakland's stadium but never been inside it. Looks like a real garbage pile on TV, though.

[CheezWizHed]

Now for something completely different.  Forget about long standing rivalries (they still exist), but embrace the YouTube generation always looking to the new....

Shuffle the divisions every year!  

No, that wouldn't reduce the travel costs, but it heighten interest every year as you wouldn't have the same primary divisional competition each year.   Maybe one year you are in with the NYY and the next with TB... 

As a professional sports organization, it would also be a first!

[CheezWizHed]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:36 PM, BrewCrewBlueDevil said:

With the DH and everyone playing everyone in 2023, what are your thoughts on a total MLB realignment?  Teams would play teams closer to home and MLB would be divided east/west. 

American League

East: Marlins, Rays, Braves, Nationals, Orioles 

Northeast: Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Pirates 

Great Lakes East: Blue Jays, Tigers, Cardinals, Reds, Guardians

National League 

West: Mariners, Giants, A's, Dodgers, Angels 

South: Padres, Diamond Backs, Rangers, Rockies, Astros 

Midwest: Twins, Brewers, White Sox, Cubs, Royals 

As a baseball fan a Chicago or New York series is kind of exciting.

 

My sense of geography would be twitching if the Cardinals were in the "Great Lakes East" over the Brewers, Cubs, and White Sox.  And conversely, the same "Gateway to the West" not included in the MidWest division. ?

[jay87shot]

I like the idea of going to 8 divisions with 32 teams, however I would go 1 step further and do without the American and National league. You play your other 3 division teams 19 times and every other team in the league 4 times. Non division games would be 2 game series and a team would play like 8 game road trips against a different division (1 extra game needed to get to 162). The hard part would be grouping teams equally as far as payroll and market size.

1)M's, Giants, A's, Portland/Vegas

2)Angels, Dodgers, D-Backs, Pads

3)Rockies, Royals, Cards, Twins

4)Brewers, Cubs, CWS, Detroit

5) Clev., Tor, Cincy, Philly

6) Yanks, Red Sox, Nats, O's

7) Braves, Mets, Pitt, Nashville/Charlotte

8) Houston, Rangers, Rays, Miami

 Honestly that isn't bad but would stink for the Brewers having 3 big market teams in our division. Make it a 16 team playoffs where the #1 faces the #2 in each division and the #1 team gets all 3 games at home. Then 8 teams get seeded by record in a 5/7/7 format. No 1 game play ins but the division winner gets a big advantage in the new divisional round. Honestly nothing is perfect but it would simplify a lot of things.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

27 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

Now for something completely different.  Forget about long standing rivalries (they still exist), but embrace the YouTube generation always looking to the new....

Shuffle the divisions every year!  

No, that wouldn't reduce the travel costs, but it heighten interest every year as you wouldn't have the same primary divisional competition each year.   Maybe one year you are in with the NYY and the next with TB... 

As a professional sports organization, it would also be a first!

A division lottery would be a wild event. I'm not sure it'd be a good idea but it'd be a riot to watch unfold.

[Underachiever]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Out of curiosity, have you been to Tropicana yet? I've driven by Oakland's stadium but never been inside it. Looks like a real garbage pile on TV, though.

No. I’m never in Florida during baseball season. Need to do a Miami, Tampa, Atlanta swing to knock out those three. I’ve been to 29, but have ten to go. 

[stoutdude04]

Two Divisions - you play everyone in your division 8 times and everyone in the other division 3 times.  157 game schedule - gives time for the wildcard matchups as well as any tiebreakers.  Take the top 5 or 6 or whatever they decide and go with it.  If they want to add 3 more games they could do the rivalry game gets an extra 3 games to be 160 game season.

If they are going to an even schedule anyway...then why not?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just now, stoutdude04 said:

If they are going to an even schedule anyway...then why not?

They're not moving to a balanced schedule. They're moving to a less-unbalanced schedule. Teams still play division rivals 14-ish times whereas they played 19-ish games against them last year.

[stoutdude04]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

They're not moving to a balanced schedule. They're moving to a less-unbalanced schedule. Teams still play division rivals 14-ish times whereas they played 19-ish games against them last year.

That's my point.  They are playing their division rivals less than they did.  To me - that's what I meant by balanced.  They play the other teams more equally.  So, to that end - play your division more than the other division, but only have 2 of them.