New Entertainment District Coming to Am Fam?/Renovations Financing

[Brewcrew82]

There has been some discussion in recent weeks about the future of Am Fam and the Brewers' expected push for renovations, as well as potential financing options for such renovations. Well, lookie here...First a Deer District, then an Iron District, now a "Beer District"?

 

[patrickgpe]

I don't see this working out well. Its great for the bucks. People normally stop at a bar and have a drink and dinner before a bucks game. People are NOT going to go buy an expensive drink at a bar in the parking lot in lieu of tailgating and drinking their own beer / grilling their own food. That being said, a common meeting spot to watch playoff games or road games would be cool, but not sure if it would be worth the tax increase the county would see. 

 

Also i would imagine this would mean removing parking spots, which for high attendance games, they seem to run out of spots as it is. 

[mtrebs]

If the facilities are owned by the Brewers and have in-stadium prices, then forget it.  People would must continue to tailgate then. If the facilities are separate businesses that have close-to-normal prices, then it would be very enticing.

I’m guessing that these would be Brewers-owned facilities and therefore would be close to in-stadium process though.

[owbc]

The Bucks/Brewers comparison is interesting. The Bucks draw a different demographic than the Brewers. The Bucks crowd is younger and more diverse and more from Milwaukee. The Brewers have an older crowd and draw more from the suburbs and beyond. 

AmFam Field looks really weird to people not from Milwaukee, alongside a highway with a sea of parking lots and tailgating. You almost expect the cars in the lots to be 1970s Chevys. It's certainly weird to me now going back to Milwaukee when I'm used to riding the bus to a baseball game and walking through a sea of restaurants and vendors to get to a baseball game. Seattle has no problem drawing people from out of the city for weekend Mariners games -- they tend to make a day of it and do other tourist activities + spend money. And the stadium district in Seattle is not in downtown, it's next to it, with both freeway access and good public transportation options.

The sad thing about AmFam field is that it's just a little bit too far away from downtown to be fully connected with the amenities. It would be better if it was located where the casino is -- still accessible from the highways w/ parking but closer to other options. Trying to create another district in close proximity to all of those options is going to be challenging. If it penciled out they would have already done it -- hence why they need public funding. 

It's going to be hard to build from scratch but they can start with tearing down the highway and adding a few things -- perhaps some condo or apartment buildings? I think they will need permanent residents to make this work and they also need to find a way to connect to the rest of downtown via public transit or another shuttle option. 

[patrickgpe]

17 minutes ago, mtrebs said:

If the facilities are owned by the Brewers and have in-stadium prices, then forget it.  People would must continue to tailgate then. If the facilities are separate businesses that have close-to-normal prices, then it would be very enticing.

I’m guessing that these would be Brewers-owned facilities and therefore would be close to in-stadium process though.

why would you still pay bar prices for food / drinks, if you can just bring your cooler and grill in the lot?

[Brewcrew82]

24 minutes ago, owbc said:

The Bucks/Brewers comparison is interesting. The Bucks draw a different demographic than the Brewers. The Bucks crowd is younger and more diverse and more from Milwaukee. The Brewers have an older crowd and draw more from the suburbs and beyond. 

AmFam Field looks really weird to people not from Milwaukee, alongside a highway with a sea of parking lots and tailgating. You almost expect the cars in the lots to be 1970s Chevys. It's certainly weird to me now going back to Milwaukee when I'm used to riding the bus to a baseball game and walking through a sea of restaurants and vendors to get to a baseball game. Seattle has no problem drawing people from out of the city for weekend Mariners games -- they tend to make a day of it and do other tourist activities + spend money. And the stadium district in Seattle is not in downtown, it's next to it, with both freeway access and good public transportation options.

The sad thing about AmFam field is that it's just a little bit too far away from downtown to be fully connected with the amenities. It would be better if it was located where the casino is -- still accessible from the highways w/ parking but closer to other options. Trying to create another district in close proximity to all of those options is going to be challenging. If it penciled out they would have already done it -- hence why they need public funding. 

It's going to be hard to build from scratch but they can start with tearing down the highway and adding a few things -- perhaps some condo or apartment buildings? I think they will need permanent residents to make this work and they also need to find a way to connect to the rest of downtown via public transit or another shuttle option. 

They could try to replicate something like the Braves currently have where they are far removed from the downtown scene, but have an entertainment district with a mix of shops, dining, and living spaces. I think it could work if done right. The article mentions how there's an area of undeveloped space (I forget the name of the business that used to occupy it) adjacent to Am Fam that would be the center of such a district. So, not much parking space would have to be removed.

The major thing I'm having a hard time getting past is how an entertainment district would be able to coexist with Milwaukee's tailgate culture. People will obviously bring their own food and drink and tailgate if the prices at the entertainment district are anything like they are inside the stadium. 

Where it could really work is providing the Brewers with a source of revenue on non-game days and during the offseason. I could very easily see people wanting to go to a potential "Beer District" on the outskirts of the city with ample parking space rather than going all the way into downtown and having to struggle to find a parking spot for the Deer District. 

[jerichoholicninja]

As someone who has no interest in ever tailgating anywhere or for any reason, I don't even think this is a good idea. If people like me want to eat somewhere before the game we're hitting up one of the bars on whatever street that's across the highway and taking a shuttle to the stadium. No over crowded parking lot to deal with or paying to park there. Of course, I haven't been to a game in about 7 years so maybe things have changed so much that this doesn't happen anymore. I will say, though, that my biggest complaint about Miller/AmFam having been to other parks is that it's in the middle of nowhere with nothing around it but parking lots and highway. It really seems like a relic in that sense.

[owbc]

People who buy cheap tickets and tailgate to avoid paying for food should be the lowest priority for the Brewers. I'm sure they will always have cheap tickets and a lot where tailgating is allowed but it is logical to reallocate some of that space to other purposes and consolidate some of the parking into a garage. 

They are also falling behind other teams in not extracting revenue from outside-of-stadium sources. 

Even something like this would be a nice upgrade: https://www.seattletimes.com/life/food-drink/seattle-mariners-sign-long-term-lease-to-redevelop-pyramid-brewing-building-and-open-a-restaurant-and-brew-pub/

[nate82]

Hopefully it is better than what is around Chase Field for the Dbacks.  The restaurants are just packed to tightly together.  

[mtrebs]

4 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

why would you still pay bar prices for food / drinks, if you can just bring your cooler and grill in the lot?

True. While we often tailgate, there are a few games a year we like to hit up a bar on Bluemound instead. I guess this would take away business from that area though.

I could see it being a good idea for weekday evening games, where people go to a game after work but might not be able to get there early enough to grill out  they could stop at one of the bars and get some food and drinks.

I think the cool usage of this area would be during popular games, like postseason games, although that’s relatively few and far between. I could see it being popular after games too.

We do have such a tailgating culture that many people wouldn’t deviate from their tailgates, but there are circumstances where it would come in handy.

[AJOHNSON104]

Now is the time to plan this, as the I-94 project gets finalized and proposals are being made to bring significant changes to the interchange. Some kind of Condo/apartment building with some offices and bar / restaurants has been talked about for years. I think there was a design put together by the UWM Urban Planning program about 10 years ago, but couldn't find a link to it. I did find this study from Marquette that refers to the potential for developing the parking lots.   https://law.marquette.edu/assets/sports-law/pdf/20120622-greenberg-mp.pdf

[Jopal78]

17 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

why would you still pay bar prices for food / drinks, if you can just bring your cooler and grill in the lot?

Therein lies the rub. Eliminate tail-gaiting. Lambeau Field has very little surface parking lot remaining and people adapt to not tailgating.

To let thousands of people drink alcohol and eat in your parking lot for free is simply against the business model of today’s professional sports teams. 

[patrickgpe]

I don't tailgate anymore, just saying its part of the fiber of being a brewer fan. if the brewers eliminate that and replace it with high priced bars, its going to not go over well. 

[Jopal78]

8 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

I don't tailgate anymore, just saying its part of the fiber of being a brewer fan. if the brewers eliminate that and replace it with high priced bars, its going to not go over well. 

Sure, but it was part of the culture at Lambeau and they now have less than half the parking they had in the 2000s, and nobody really cares.

The powers that be can erect their entertainment district in the preferred lots and make the auxiliary lot the tailgating lot and charge more for it than they do now and nobody will really care.

[homer]

For a lot of people, tailgating consists of standing around your car and drinking beer. And when I have tailgated it seems like roughly one out of every three cars is doing it. 

[bork]

I'm curious where this would go, balancing the placement of the entertainment district close to the stadium vs still having preferred parking where they can charge way more.

[homer]

29 minutes ago, bork said:

I'm curious where this would go, balancing the placement of the entertainment district close to the stadium vs still having preferred parking where they can charge way more.

They're talking about tearing down Hwy 175 to open up space.

[igor67]

The key to this being viable is what other types of attractions you can come up with to bring people in either earlier on game days, or on non game days. You mix in dining type amenities once you have a reason for people to show up besides food, if you don't have a significant draw then in terms of generating new tax dollars to pay for stadium upgrades. You try and keep most of your parking because part of the draw is it functioning like an alternate downtown without parking headaches. If you had a really good transit option that would be great as well. Since the light rail went in to downtown Minneapolis I've only driven through there 1 or 2 times, riding a train is so much easier (and cheaper).

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, homer said:

For a lot of people, tailgating consists of standing around your car and drinking beer. And when I have tailgated it seems like roughly one out of every three cars is doing it. 

That's the point, people pay $20 to park their car then sit around it for two hours before the game grilling and drinking beer they brought with them. In today's world of pro sports that is an un-tapped potential revenue stream. Eventually, in one way or another, they will make the people buy the food and beer from them. 

[homer]

8 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

That's the point, people pay $20 to park their car then sit around it for two hours before the game grilling and drinking beer they brought with them. In today's world of pro sports that is an un-tapped potential revenue stream. Eventually, in one way or another, they will make the people buy the food and beer from them. 

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think 2/3 of people that park their cars go into the stadium or meander around. 1/3 tailgate and for a lot of that 1/3 a "tailgate" does not involve a grill, food, etc. etc. I think there are plenty of people that would go into some kind of "Beer District" to hang out pre and post game.

[NBBrewFan]

3 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

That's the point, people pay $20 to park their car then sit around it for two hours before the game grilling and drinking beer they brought with them. In today's world of pro sports that is an un-tapped potential revenue stream. Eventually, they will make the people buy the food and beer from them. 

Was listening to the radio the other day while driving and I was shocked that the DJs started making fun of the cost of going to Brewer games.  One of them attempted a joke about how you pay so much for everything and then during the game staff come up and ask you to pay more money for no reason. You're "eventually" may be longer than you think as I wouldn't be surprised if there is a significant proportion of attendees that already think the cost is too much.  Forcing them to spend more will likely just reduce trips and be revenue neutral.  I think you need to focus on the non-gameday revenue streams first and foremost before redistributing the gameday revenues.

[homer]

1 hour ago, NBBrewFan said:

Was listening to the radio the other day while driving and I was shocked that the DJs started making fun of the cost of going to Brewer games.  One of them attempted a joke about how you pay so much for everything and then during the game staff come up and ask you to pay more money for no reason. You're "eventually" may be longer than you think as I wouldn't be surprised if there is a significant proportion of attendees that already think the cost is too much.  Forcing them to spend more will likely just reduce trips and be revenue neutral.  I think you need to focus on the non-gameday revenue streams first and foremost before redistributing the gameday revenues.

Yeah they'd need to make a "Beer District" a year round thing. 

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, NBBrewFan said:

Was listening to the radio the other day while driving and I was shocked that the DJs started making fun of the cost of going to Brewer games.  One of them attempted a joke about how you pay so much for everything and then during the game staff come up and ask you to pay more money for no reason. You're "eventually" may be longer than you think as I wouldn't be surprised if there is a significant proportion of attendees that already think the cost is too much.  Forcing them to spend more will likely just reduce trips and be revenue neutral.  I think you need to focus on the non-gameday revenue streams first and foremost before redistributing the gameday revenues.

Maybe, but I don't think so. The cost of going to a professional baseball, football, basketball or hockey game has gotten really expensive in the last 20+ years with no sign of fans staying away because of cost, especially if the product on the field is successful (I haven't paid attention to the increases in Brewer tickets over the years, however my wife's tickets to the Packers were $51 in 1998, those same seats are now priced at $123). 

Like any billion dollar corporation I'm sure the powers that be  (like any other sports team) have reams of market research on how to increase and diversify their revenue streams and already know there will not be a "fan revolt" before those ideas are even floated publicly.  Take a walk around Wrigley Field some time, they've build a huge revenue machine that sucks up gobs of money before fans even enter the stadium. The people who used to carry in hot-dogs from the 7-11, and go on the rooftops for cheap were all told to take a hike, and the cash machine kept on rolling. 

 

[Hopper]

Haven't posted in a while, however, I beg to differ on a couple issues being mentioned above.

Up until 3 or 4 years ago, I had gone to an average of 10 games or so per season.  That was reduced to 2 or 3 the past 3 or 4 years, and now I'm down to one game per season.  Reason?  Cost and nothing else.  I'm about 2,5 hours away from AMFAM.  I can't take a family of 4 to a Brewers game for less than $250-$275.  Well, of course you can, but who wants to go to a game and not partake into normal game day things like food, decent tickets, etc.

The cost does stop people from attending games and I know a lot of people that have pretty much done the same thing as me.  Just plain cut down to bare bones or stopped going all together.

If the Brewers and people here think that the cost of going to games doesn't prohibit people from going, they would be incorrect.

[patrickgpe]

5 minutes ago, Hopper said:

Haven't posted in a while, however, I beg to differ on a couple issues being mentioned above.

Up until 3 or 4 years ago, I had gone to an average of 10 games or so per season.  That was reduced to 2 or 3 the past 3 or 4 years, and now I'm down to one game per season.  Reason?  Cost and nothing else. 

If the Brewers and people here think that the cost of going to games doesn't prohibit people from going, they would be incorrect.

I know this wasn't really the brewers idea, but if they are going to expect a tax subsidy whether in the form of a TIF district or a tax increase and then make it more expensive to go to games, its a non-starter.