Baseball's baseballs

[homer]

Figure it out, Manfred. I think all anyone wants is consistency.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's kind of amazing how bad MLB is at fundamental baseball stuff.

[NBBrewFan]

6 hours ago, homer said:

"I suspect that’s either because MLB has relaxed quality control or because humidity changes are causing balls to deform. "

I'd bet it's a lot more to do with the huge jump in Humidor usage this year than a problem with the balls coming out of the factory.  I believe they have to check them before they put them into the Humidor so they should be identifying QA/QC issues before they get the humidity treatment. Personally I think outside of certain atmospheric anomaly locations (DENVER) it shouldn't be used.

[homer]

According to one analysis, the Brewers are getting particularly hosed by the new baseballs (Rowdy ?)

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

They need to do away with humidors aside from Colorado, full stop.  When you artificially change the atmospheric condition surrounding a baseball, then reintroduce it to whatever elements the actual game is being played in, many times those baseballs don't have enough time get back to some form of equilibrium before they are put into play.  

 

Part of this is paralysis by analysis - with all the statcast and data driven sports science being introduced into baseball, they're going to find something to gripe about.  I'm going to go out on a pretty sturdy limb and assume there were issues with the baseballs 60-70 years ago, too.  Just have a spec for how a MLB game ball needs to be made and stick to it, and stop worrying about how to manipulate the balls so they play exactly the same in Minnesota Aprils, Atlanta Junes, or San Diego Septembers.

[nate82]

I think the humidors once the weather heats up we will see more offense.  I think the balls will start flying during the warmer weather.  But baseball really needs to figure out what they are going to do with the baseballs.

I liked the idea of making the baseballs bigger and heavier.  I think that will help reduce the amount of arm injuries and also help the hitters get more contact.  It should increase the amount of balls in play which will be a good thing.

[KeithStone53151]

4 hours ago, nate82 said:

I think the humidors once the weather heats up we will see more offense.  I think the balls will start flying during the warmer weather.  But baseball really needs to figure out what they are going to do with the baseballs.

I liked the idea of making the baseballs bigger and heavier.  I think that will help reduce the amount of arm injuries and also help the hitters get more contact.  It should increase the amount of balls in play which will be a good thing.

How does making a baseball heavier reduce arm injuries? I would think literally the opposite would happen.

[nate82]

39 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

How does making a baseball heavier reduce arm injuries? I would think literally the opposite would happen.

Less stress on the elbow.  Yes it sounds counter intuitive but there was a small study on changing the ball from 5oz to 6oz and 4oz.  In that study the 6oz saw a large improvement on stress to the elbow (making it less stressful) but the 4oz also saw a large improvement on stress to the elbow.  But with the 4oz there was also significant velocity gain while the 6oz saw some gain in velocity but not as much.  

This was done with long toss but I believe the same would be true for pitching.  The ball becoming heavier and bigger should help with the stress on the elbow.  

https://www.drivelinebaseball.com/2016/08/weighted-baseball-long-toss-less-stressful-on-arm/

I am not sure if they ever did more testing on this or not but from the limited sample they have done the heavier ball reduced stress and the lighter ball also reduced stress.  

[owbc]

It was nice to see this fangraphs article about the influence of spin on batted balls: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-lurking-influence-of-batted-ball-spin/

Changes to the baseball obviously have an influence on offense, but I'm afraid many pundits and fans are taking statcast data at face value and extrapolating to all sorts of conspiracy theories. 

Quote

Together with wind speed, direction, and the weather that day, some 2,000 revolutions per minute are capable of adding upwards of 40 feet — or subtracting it.

MLB's opaqueness is a big problem, but I would argue the humidors are a step in the right direction in terms of controlling for differences between locations. Other factors will never be controlled for, which is part of what makes baseball fun. 

[jerichoholicninja]

18 hours ago, nate82 said:

Less stress on the elbow.  Yes it sounds counter intuitive but there was a small study on changing the ball from 5oz to 6oz and 4oz.  In that study the 6oz saw a large improvement on stress to the elbow (making it less stressful) but the 4oz also saw a large improvement on stress to the elbow.  But with the 4oz there was also significant velocity gain while the 6oz saw some gain in velocity but not as much.  

This was done with long toss but I believe the same would be true for pitching.  The ball becoming heavier and bigger should help with the stress on the elbow.  

https://www.drivelinebaseball.com/2016/08/weighted-baseball-long-toss-less-stressful-on-arm/

I am not sure if they ever did more testing on this or not but from the limited sample they have done the heavier ball reduced stress and the lighter ball also reduced stress.  

Interesting about the different weights. I grew up pitching a tennis ball against our garage. I'd go out and throw at least 100 pitches almost everyday and never got a sore arm from it. I did this from about 7th grade all the way through high school. After close to 25 years of playing baseball at a whole bunch of different levels, pitching, and throwing batting practice I've really only had a sore arm a couple times in my life. I've always felt it was because I conditioned my arm with "low stress" throwing with the tennis ball.

[homer]

I know some of this can be chalked up to the normal variance of a baseball season. Phillies players and coaches seem to think there are different balls being put in play:

https://theathletic.com/3318723/2022/05/18/phillies-offense-mlb-deadened-baseball/

[homer]

 

[homer]

 

[wibadgers23]

Can we please just stop dickin around with the baseballs and go with one ball, all year.  This is ridiculous.  

[nate82]

The dumbest part of all this is that MLB didn't even test for drag on the baseball for the new ones they introduced last year.  

[rondoman]

MLB is an illegitimate sport.

Pujols/Judge/Yankees getting juiced balls?

This should take the entire sport down but we know it won't. 

[jay87shot]

I hate to be direct but who cares. The balls aren't that different they are talking about minuet differences. Each team gets to rub there balls with dirt (or a similar substance)  so you shouldn't complain about then being slick. MLB just stick with on ball that is made the same every year and acknowledge that the ball will be slightly different based on climate. Ship out the balls needed only a week or so in advance and have a secondary ball that has the same specs but different design but is used for practice.

[homer]

1 hour ago, jay87shot said:

I hate to be direct but who cares. The balls aren't that different they are talking about minuet differences. Each team gets to rub there balls with dirt (or a similar substance)  so you shouldn't complain about then being slick. MLB just stick with on ball that is made the same every year and acknowledge that the ball will be slightly different based on climate. Ship out the balls needed only a week or so in advance and have a secondary ball that has the same specs but different design but is used for practice.

But what if certain teams are getting certain types of balls that fly further? That seems problematic.

[jay87shot]

16 minutes ago, homer said:

But what if certain teams are getting certain types of balls that fly further? That seems problematic.

But what if certain teams are banging on cans for offspeed or lighting up scoreboards to signal hitters or using sticky stuff to add spin. 

If mlb sends everyone the same ball it is the same. The differences in a team pitching in 80 degree humid weather in Milwaukee one week to 100 degree dry weather in Arizona aren't so great that all of sudden a guy can't throw strikes. The ball doesn't matter if it's the same and teams aren't allowed to alter it when it is recieved.

[homer]

This is the problematic part:

 

 

[nate82]

That is the problem the balls are not the same.  The deadened ball had more drag on it.  The “Goldilocks” ball seems to not have that problem.  If one ball flies farther than the other then that is a huge problem.  

[owbc]

It would probably be a bigger deal if we didn't know already that they do this. Although this is kind of a new low, in the past it seemed like they just liked to turn certain marquee games into slugfests like the London Series and the Field of Dreams game. 

I would say that trying to secretly manipulate home run records is pretty scandalous. Because that's the implication of this study -- they were trying to get Judge to 62. 

 

[torts]

4 hours ago, owbc said:

It would probably be a bigger deal if we didn't know already that they do this. Although this is kind of a new low, in the past it seemed like they just liked to turn certain marquee games into slugfests like the London Series and the Field of Dreams game. 

I would say that trying to secretly manipulate home run records is pretty scandalous. Because that's the implication of this study -- they were trying to get Judge to 62. 

 

Yep, that's how I read it too.  

[igor67]

It certainly looks that way, and giving myself the chance to think about it is way worse than looking the other way on steroids. Actively being willing to manipulate game outcomes well there is a reason the gambling ban has been around for so long.