Should Milwaukee pursue a trade for CF Ramon Laureano?

[Brewcrew82]

I already talked about him in the trade market thread, but figured he deserves his own thread here. It's becoming increasingly clear that the one major part of our team that is going to require an upgrade moving forward is CF. Cain has done a lot for us, and has more than earned his contract, however, the evidence is pretty substantial at this point that his time as a major league hitter has run out. That's where Ramon Laureano enters the picture in my view. He's returning from an 80 game suspension today, and unlike Pedro Severino, will be eligible for the postseason because his suspension is a carry-over from last year. He's a career .800 OPS hitter, and while maybe not at Cain's peak level, is still a clear plus with the glove. You also have to believe that the A's aren't going to be too set against dealing him, given that they're in the midst of a full-fledged teardown and will not be close to competitive before he hits free agency following the 2024 season. He also figures to cost less in prospect capital than a guy like Cedric Mullens or Bryan Reynolds, who were legit MVP contenders last year. Thus, I think that, for a fair deal, Laureano is readily obtainable for us and would be a tremendous boost for this team. My initial offer to the A's would probably be Mitchell/Frelick, Small, and a lower-level lottery ticket like a Mendez/Severino/Barrios. Thoughts?

[Joseph Zarr]

My initial thinking with this proposition is: I am uninterested in coughing up a Small, Mitchell, or a Frelick for a Laureano. He's a nice player but he isn't a player worthy of top 5 prospects (imho) given he is also coming off an 80 game suspension. I would dangle a Freddy Zamora and a Hedbert Perez, however. Does this get nibbles? Any interest? If no dialogue comes of that, I probably move on.

[Brewcrew51T]

From a defensive standpoint, I'd believe Stearns would likely stick with what he has given his history of maintaining strong defensive players up the middle with more offense-heavy players on the corner positions. With Cain still being a solid option out there, there's likely a good chance they keep him out there and punt the offense if it doesn't turn around/mix Taylor and others in for more looks until they bridge the gap for Frelick/Mitchell in 2023. Offense-wise, it would be an upgrade (even more so if you believe Laureano can still be the player he was in 2018-19). But being an all-around player and the Crew's potential need for more firepower in the lineup than defense, it feels more like a gamble on an uncertain offensive upgrade for 2.5 seasons when there may very well be a better bat at a corner spot for the same/similar package.

Not that I don't like Laureano - it's interesting, but I'd be hesitant until we see some regular plate appearances for him and see where he's at. I'd pass on the framed deal - it's a bit rich. But I definitely agree with the Frelick/Mitchell/Wiemer centerpiece since it would take a high-profile guy that's looking good in his reps in the minors. It would definitely take a couple additional mid-tier guys for the 2.5 years of control though.

[Brock Beauchamp]

7 hours ago, Brewcrew51T said:

From a defensive standpoint, I'd believe Stearns would likely stick with what he has given his history of maintaining strong defensive players up the middle with more offense-heavy players on the corner positions. With Cain still being a solid option out there, there's likely a good chance they keep him out there and punt the offense if it doesn't turn around/mix Taylor and others in for more looks until they bridge the gap for Frelick/Mitchell in 2023. Offense-wise, it would be an upgrade (even more so if you believe Laureano can still be the player he was in 2018-19). But being an all-around player and the Crew's potential need for more firepower in the lineup than defense, it feels more like a gamble on an uncertain offensive upgrade for 2.5 seasons when there may very well be a better bat at a corner spot for the same/similar package.

Not that I don't like Laureano - it's interesting, but I'd be hesitant until we see some regular plate appearances for him and see where he's at. I'd pass on the framed deal - it's a bit rich. But I definitely agree with the Frelick/Mitchell/Wiemer centerpiece since it would take a high-profile guy that's looking good in his reps in the minors. It would definitely take a couple additional mid-tier guys for the 2.5 years of control though.

Great post, welcome to the site!

[nate82]

18 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I already talked about him in the trade market thread, but figured he deserves his own thread here. It's becoming increasingly clear that the one major part of our team that is going to require an upgrade moving forward is CF. Cain has done a lot for us, and has more than earned his contract, however, the evidence is pretty substantial at this point that his time as a major league hitter has run out. That's where Ramon Laureano enters the picture in my view. He's returning from an 80 game suspension today, and unlike Pedro Severino, will be eligible for the postseason because his suspension is a carry-over from last year. He's a career .800 OPS hitter, and while maybe not at Cain's peak level, is still a clear plus with the glove. You also have to believe that the A's aren't going to be too set against dealing him, given that they're in the midst of a full-fledged teardown and will not be close to competitive before he hits free agency following the 2024 season. He also figures to cost less in prospect capital than a guy like Cedric Mullens or Bryan Reynolds, who were legit MVP contenders last year. Thus, I think that, for a fair deal, Laureano is readily obtainable for us and would be a tremendous boost for this team. My initial offer to the A's would probably be Mitchell/Frelick, Small, and a lower-level lottery ticket like a Mendez/Severino/Barrios. Thoughts?

I don't see the A's trading Laureano as he would be at his lowest value.  That is just not something the A's do even if they are cutting costs.  If the A's trade Laureano it won't be during the season it will be during the off season.  I just don't see the A's selling low on someone like Laureano who hasn't even played a game yet this year.  

[sveumrules]

CF is definitely the most glaring need at this point, how they approach it will be one of the more intriguing angles to follow this season for sure.

Love Lorenzo, but he has looked cooked. Think they’ll give him a lil more time to figure it out before Tyrone starts getting more starts.

Between Mitchell/Frelick in AA (and even Turang getting a handful of CF starts in AAA) plus Stearns & company’s reticence to really deal top prospects post-Yelich trade, I think any addition will be more of the place holder variety than the deal legit prospect capital for a Laureano/Mullins/Reynolds type of trade.

[Brewcrew82]

1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

CF is definitely the most glaring need at this point, how they approach it will be one of the more intriguing angles to follow this season for sure.

Love Lorenzo, but he has looked cooked. Think they’ll give him a lil more time to figure it out before Tyrone starts getting more starts.

Between Mitchell/Frelick in AA (and even Turang getting a handful of CF starts in AAA) plus Stearns & company’s reticence to really deal top prospects post-Yelich trade, I think any addition will be more of the place holder variety than the deal legit prospect capital for a Laureano/Mullins/Reynolds type of trade.

Normally, I would agree that we should seek a place-holder type until our center field prospects are ready, however, I think there are two things that are pushing me in favor of a trade for a bigger upgrade. One, this team is built to win the World Series right now. For a franchise that is starved to get to that next level, this could be a catalyst that helps to get them there. Two, I feel like we will have to trade one of Mitchell/Frelick eventually, as there is probably only going to be room for one on our roster unless either develops the sort of power that would enable them to play in the corners alongside Wiemer. And it's not like this is a Wander Franco situation either, where the prospect is a clear cant-miss and you don't dare put any roadblocks in front of them. 

[nate82]

2 hours ago, sveumrules said:

CF is definitely the most glaring need at this point, how they approach it will be one of the more intriguing angles to follow this season for sure.

Love Lorenzo, but he has looked cooked. Think they’ll give him a lil more time to figure it out before Tyrone starts getting more starts.

Between Mitchell/Frelick in AA (and even Turang getting a handful of CF starts in AAA) plus Stearns & company’s reticence to really deal top prospects post-Yelich trade, I think any addition will be more of the place holder variety than the deal legit prospect capital for a Laureano/Mullins/Reynolds type of trade.

I think the Brewers will also not sacrifice defense especially in CF where it is extremely important for the Brewers.  In LF you have a below average to average LF in Yelich and in RF you have an average to above average in Renfroe.  The Brewers really need a good defensive CF to cover ground that Yelich and Renfroe are not able to cover.

This is probably why Cain is still getting starts in CF because of his top notch defense in CF.  I am not sure how well Turang grades out in CF but Frelick and Mitchell have looked adequate in CF.  Both Frelick and Mitchell are not at the level of Cain in CF though there are very few players who are that elite in CF defensively.  Preferably in the OF it should be LF Renfroe, RF Taylor and then Mitchell/Frelick in CF.  That gives the Brewers the best OF defense and offensively there is not much of a difference than what is there now.  

I think the Brewers just ride with Cain and give Taylor more starts in CF.  I just don't see a trade out there that makes sense.  The Brewers would have to include a lot to get someone that is going to be a significant upgrade.

[JohnBriggs12]

Just now, nate82 said:

I think the Brewers will also not sacrifice defense especially in CF where it is extremely important for the Brewers.  In LF you have a below average to average LF in Yelich and in RF you have an average to above average in Renfroe.  The Brewers really need a good defensive CF to cover ground that Yelich and Renfroe are not able to cover.

This is probably why Cain is still getting starts in CF because of his top notch defense in CF.  I am not sure how well Turang grades out in CF but Frelick and Mitchell have looked adequate in CF.  Both Frelick and Mitchell are not at the level of Cain in CF though there are very few players who are that elite in CF defensively.  Preferably in the OF it should be LF Renfroe, RF Taylor and then Mitchell/Frelick in CF.  That gives the Brewers the best OF defense and offensively there is not much of a difference than what is there now.  

I think the Brewers just ride with Cain and give Taylor more starts in CF.  I just don't see a trade out there that makes sense.  The Brewers would have to include a lot to get someone that is going to be a significant upgrade.

Is he still a topnotch defensive CF or is he going on reputation?  I saw him make two horrendous errors over the weekend and there's certainly nothing wrong with Taylor's defense in center field either.  I would submit that Taylor covers as much ground as Cain these days and he's certainly an upgrade offensively.  It's time to begin phasing out Cain, and while it might be premature to release him, certainly he's going to need to produce albeit in a lesser role as Taylor's backup.  As far as going out of the organization, well the hottest bat right now in Nashville just happens to be centerfielder Jonathon Davis and while he's had considerable chances in the big leagues and failed as a hitter, as a short term backup option should they decide to move on completely from Cain, he could buy some time as a backup in CF along with a corner backup with some pop like a Dahl until the deadline.  I don't see a need to go out and make a trade until then

[Brewcrew82]

 

17 minutes ago, nate82 said:

I think the Brewers will also not sacrifice defense especially in CF where it is extremely important for the Brewers.  In LF you have a below average to average LF in Yelich and in RF you have an average to above average in Renfroe.  The Brewers really need a good defensive CF to cover ground that Yelich and Renfroe are not able to cover.

This is probably why Cain is still getting starts in CF because of his top notch defense in CF.  I am not sure how well Turang grades out in CF but Frelick and Mitchell have looked adequate in CF.  Both Frelick and Mitchell are not at the level of Cain in CF though there are very few players who are that elite in CF defensively.  Preferably in the OF it should be LF Renfroe, RF Taylor and then Mitchell/Frelick in CF.  That gives the Brewers the best OF defense and offensively there is not much of a difference than what is there now.  

I think the Brewers just ride with Cain and give Taylor more starts in CF.  I just don't see a trade out there that makes sense.  The Brewers would have to include a lot to get someone that is going to be a significant upgrade.

A team with serious World Series aspirations simply cannot afford to keep trotting out what, at this point, has become the corpse of Lorenzo Cain. While he still has some range, I think this weekend also showed that his defense is not what it once was (his error on Saturday literally cost us the game). In my opinion, unless he shows a sudden revival with the bat, he will have to be DFA'd at some point this summer. With respect to Tyrone Taylor, I think he is a capable replacement both offensively and defensively and should continue to get more playing time moving forward (he's at CF in today's lineup which is good to see). At the same time, there are also even better potential upgrades (Laureano, Mullins, Gallo) that are out there and need to be fully explored. Bottom line is we will be setting ourselves up for continued postseason failure if we move forward with Cain as our primary centerfielder. 

[nate82]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

 

A team with serious World Series aspirations simply cannot afford to keep trotting out what, at this point, has become the corpse of Lorenzo Cain. While he still has some range, I think this weekend also showed that his defense is not what it once was (his error on Saturday literally cost us the game). In my opinion, unless he shows a sudden revival with the bat, he will have to be DFA'd at some point this summer. With respect to Tyrone Taylor, I think he is a capable replacement both offensively and defensively and should continue to get more playing time moving forward (he's at CF in today's lineup which is good to see). At the same time, there are also even better potential upgrades (Laureano, Mullins, Gallo) that are out there and need to be fully explored. Bottom line is we will be setting ourselves up for continued postseason failure if we move forward with Cain as our primary centerfielder. 

I disagree while Cain’s numbers now are bad teams definitely have players who are below average on offense in their team and are serious World Series contenders.  Orlando Arica was on the Braves WS roster I believe.

I don’t believe the Brewers have the prospects to get a Mullins/Reynolds/Laureano.  If you want one of those three be prepared to empty the farm for them.  I just don’t see that as being a good idea.

Laureano maybe the more realistic option but that is still Frelick, Mitchell, Small and a lottery ticket.  The Brewers top prospects are just not worth as much as some are thinking they are worth.  Even Wiemer is on the low end.  The Brewers have a bunch of $20m surplus value players but three or four of them would need to be able included to make some of these trades work.  That is why Cain and Taylor are fine in CF.  The better return would be to go after a Bell or J.D. Martinez type.

Chasing after one elite player is just a recipe for disaster.  I would rather just part with lower end prospects and get a rental like Martinez or Bell or both.  

[KeithStone53151]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like Laureano is actually a very good defender in CF. As good as Cain is, he's not going to be as fast or athletic as Laureano at this point or probably even Taylor. Also Laureano has an absolute cannon as well.

[KeithStone53151]

18 hours ago, nate82 said:

I don’t believe the Brewers have the prospects to get a Mullins/Reynolds/Laureano.  If you want one of those three be prepared to empty the farm for them.  I just don’t see that as being a good idea.

Chasing after one elite player is just a recipe for disaster.  I would rather just part with lower end prospects and get a rental like Martinez or Bell or both.  

I'm not sure the cost would be as high as you seem to think. We have some pretty good players in the minors I'm sure any of those teams would have no problem finding 2-4 prospects they like in trade and not all of them would be the highest on our prospect list.

That said, the Brewers may very well be one elite talent away from the roster we need. The depth is so good, one or two improvements in the outfield might put us over the top. I don't really see us needing improvement at any other positional spot, outfield is really the only concern barring injury. We also only have 2 years left in this window at best and I'm sure Stearns knows this.

[nate82]

4 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like Laureano is actually a very good defender in CF. As good as Cain is, he's not going to be as fast or athletic as Laureano at this point or probably even Taylor. Also Laureano has an absolute cannon as well.

Laureano is not as good as Cain in CF.  Laureano is actually a better RF than he is a CF.   Even Taylor is better defensively in CF than Laureano.  

1 minute ago, KeithStone53151 said:

I'm not sure the cost would be as high as you seem to think. We have some pretty good players in the minors I'm sure any of those teams would have no problem finding 2-4 prospects they like in trade and not all of them would be the highest on our prospect list.

That said, the Brewers may very well be one elite talent away from the roster we need. The depth is so good, one or two improvements in the outfield might put us over the top. I don't really see us needing improvement at any other positional spot, outfield is really the only concern barring injury. We also only have 2 years left in this window at best and I'm sure Stearns knows this.

But the prospects that the Brewers have maybe nice they are not in the elite category which is what you would need to include in a trade for Reynolds or Mullins.  You maybe able to get Laureano but I doubt the A's will sell at a discount.  The 2-4 prospects that they like would be something like Wiemer, Mitchell, Frelick and Small.  That is a huge price to give up for one player.  It would be better to trade one of the four or none as the Brewers are going to need cheap talent next year to fill in some roster spots if the Brewers are going to keep Burnes, Woodruff and Hader.  Which means the Brewers are going to need a lot of prearb players along with low cost players.  

It would be better to do trades like the Braves did last year and get a bunch of players and roll the dice on them catching on fire.  Get someone like J.D. Martinez and Bell on the team and see what can happen.  This would be the same as not putting all of your eggs in one basket.  Going after that one elite player hardly ever works it didn't work in going after Sabathia and it didn't work going after Greinke.  

[KeithStone53151]

The two trades I could find for big name position players over the last two years are the Dodgers getting Trea Turner + Max Scherzer and the Braves getting Matt Olson. The Dodgers primarily gave up Keibert Ruiz and Josiah Gray for both Turner/Scherzer. Ruiz was 38 on the most recent top 100 and Gray was 68. Ruiz had a lot of helium early on but had a few down years. He probably only kept his prospect clout on lists because he was in the right farm system. Both those guys are probably at least slightly better prospects than Frelick/Wiemer/Small, but Turner and Scherzer are both better baseball players than Reynolds/Mullins/Laureano by a significant margin. It's tough to know what percentage of the value to allocate to Turner vs Scherzer.

The other trade being the Braves getting Olson. The A's got Pache, Cusick, Estes. I think it's beyond debate to see we have plenty of prospects in the range of Cusick/Estes. Pache is a premium defender that can't hit, at least not yet and hasn't been able to for a while. He profiles as an extremely useful 4th outfielder or 2nd division regular, unless he starts to hit he'll never be valuable as a starter on a contending team. Matt Olson is not that far off those 3 guys from a value perspective before his extension, and we definitely can match that offer. I think you're probably overvaluing all 3 players above and undervaluing our prospects.

Also, it's hard to argue the Sabathia trade didn't surpass every expectation. The roster floundered in other areas, but the trade was an overall successful move and we did get to the postseason for the first time in forever...and without him we don't.

[nate82]

I would still rather do what the Braves did last year than going for that one big splash.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 hours ago, nate82 said:

I would still rather do what the Braves did last year than going for that one big splash.

Which a team can do if they’re kinda bad or at least mediocre at the deadline, which the Braves were last season. They just happened to get a 90th percentile result on all their middling moves.

Acquiring the likes of an Eddie Rosario is a lot less effective when you have competent production up and down the lineup and are already on pace for 90+ wins. 

[MadThinker88]

IIRC suspensions like the one given to  Ramon L carry with it a suspension from post-season play (for 1 year)...

Are we sure that Ramon is eligible for the post-season in 2022??  Otherwise  a trade is made & he might be unable to help the club when it matters most...

[Brewcrew82]

25 minutes ago, MadThinker88 said:

IIRC suspensions like the one given to  Ramon L carry with it a suspension from post-season play (for 1 year)...

Are we sure that Ramon is eligible for the post-season in 2022??  Otherwise  a trade is made & he might be unable to help the club when it matters most...

Yes, he is eligible, as his 80 game suspension was a carryover from last season. Had the A's made the postseason last year, he would've been ineligible. You're only ineligible for one postseason. 

[Robocaller]

I think he wouldn't cost nearly as much as you suggest. 

[SRB]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:43 PM, nate82 said:

Laureano is not as good as Cain in CF.  Laureano is actually a better RF than he is a CF.   Even Taylor is better defensively in CF than Laureano. 

Laureano is not an elite elite defender in CF like vintage Cain, but he's a plus defender out there with legit one of the best outfield arms in all of baseball.

I think Laureano is a fantastic trade target for us and might even be cheaper than what you've proposed, Brewcrew82. I'm not sure I'd give up two of Frelick/Mitchell/Small for him.

[Robocaller]

5 hours ago, SRB said:

Laureano is not an elite elite defender in CF like vintage Cain, but he's a plus defender out there with legit one of the best outfield arms in all of baseball.

I think Laureano is a fantastic trade target for us and might even be cheaper than what you've proposed, Brewcrew82. I'm not sure I'd give up two of Frelick/Mitchell/Small for him.

I don't think we'd have to give up more than one. Plus a couple of lower prospects.

[wntrtxn21]

14 hours ago, Robocaller said:

I don't think we'd have to give up more than one. Plus a couple of lower prospects.

I guess it would all depend on how the A's value Laureano and if they believe in surplus value.  For Laureano the lowest SV I could find was 50.5 and the highest was 82.  The highest total I found for Frelick/Mitchell/Small combined was 47 and the lowest 30.5... Laureano has 4 years of controll left and I don't see any way the A's would take Frelick or Mitchell plus two lower prospects for him. If the situation was reversed I would never take the deal if Laureano was a Brewer. 

[nate82]

I am starting to believe Turang maybe a better option than a trade.  So bring up Turang to take over Peterson's spot on the roster and have him play 2B, SS, and CF.  Basically moving Cain to the 5th OF with Turang and Taylor splitting time in CF.  

[Robocaller]

On 5/12/2022 at 6:45 PM, wntrtxn21 said:

I guess it would all depend on how the A's value Laureano and if they believe in surplus value.  For Laureano the lowest SV I could find was 50.5 and the highest was 82.  The highest total I found for Frelick/Mitchell/Small combined was 47 and the lowest 30.5... Laureano has 4 years of controll left and I don't see any way the A's would take Frelick or Mitchell plus two lower prospects for him. If the situation was reversed I would never take the deal if Laureano was a Brewer. 

The guy never played more than 123 games, and has been mediocre since 2019, and is coming off a ped suspension. I get the potential he offers, but his actual accomplishments aren't great.