Jacob Nottingham

[MVP2110]

With the Severino suspension, trading back for Nottingham makes a ton of sense. He has a career OPS vs lefties of 1.039. He knows the staff and he shouldn't cost too much to acquire. I'd much rather he be the backup to Omar than Sullivan or Feliciano

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

He's in a competition with two other guys for the Orioles backup C job. There's a decent chance he'll be waived in the next 24 hours, in which case the Brewers should probably take a look.

[Jopal78]

57 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

He's in a competition with two other guys for the Orioles backup C job. There's a decent chance he'll be waived in the next 24 hours, in which case the Brewers should probably take a look.

Why? There will most likely be a handful of out of options catchers on the move in the next 24 hours. Secondly, the Brewers already gave Nottingham his walking papers twice last year; primarily because Notthingham is what he is: a fringe major leaguer with no options remaining. Surely a team with playoff aspirations will want to do better than a fringe major leaguer as their #2 catcher for 80+ games. 

Finally, it takes two to tango. Its a real possibility Nottingham isn't interested in a reunion with the Brewers, unless of course they are the only club willing to give him a major league job. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

1 minute ago, Jopal78 said:

Why? There will most likely be a handful of out of options catchers on the move in the next 24 hours. Secondly, the Brewers already gave Nottingham his walking papers twice last year; primarily because Notthingham is what he is: a fringe major leaguer with no options remaining. Surely a team with playoff aspirations will want to do better than a fringe major leaguer as their #2 catcher for 80+ games. 

Finally, it takes two to tango. Its a real possibility Nottingham isn't interested in a reunion with the Brewers, unless of course they are the only club willing to give him a major league job. 

I would venture to guess that the majority of MLB teams employ a player who is a fringe major leaguer as their #2 catcher. 

Nottingham was given his walking papers twice by the Brewers last year because the other RHH backup catcher on their roster - Manny Pina - was simply a better player. And he signed a deal with the Braves in the offseason commensurate of that. 

If Nottingham doesn't make the Orioles, he will be waived, and by my understanding would be available via waivers to any team. He cannot choose his next destination.

[djoctagone]

12 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

If Nottingham doesn't make the Orioles, he will be waived, and by my understanding would be available via waivers to any team. He cannot choose his next destination.

can't waive a guy who's not on a major league contract. nottingham is a non-roster invitee. he did not finish the 2021 season on a major league roster or the major league injured list, nor does he have enough service time to have required an opt-out clause/retention bonus in his contract.

doesn't mean that he didn't negotiate an opt-out clause, but for the time being, we have to assume that nottingham is property of the orioles until the end of the 2022 minor league season. thus, he could be traded.

[Jopal78]

4 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I would venture to guess that the majority of MLB teams employ a player who is a fringe major leaguer as their #2 catcher. 

Nottingham was given his walking papers twice by the Brewers last year because the other RHH backup catcher on their roster - Manny Pina - was simply a better player. And he signed a deal with the Braves in the offseason commensurate of that. 

If Nottingham doesn't make the Orioles, he will be waived, and by my understanding would be available via waivers to any team. He cannot choose his next destination.

As he is out of options, if he doesn't make the Orioles he will be designated for assignment. You are correct if he is put on waivers and was claimed he would have no choice. If he is DFA'd and refuses to go to the minor leagues, he will be a free would become a free agent.

Most teams might carry a fringe major leaguer as their #2 catcher, but most teams don't have aspirations of playing deep into the playoffs. 

Austin Barnes in LA, Manny Pina in ATL, Curt Casali in SF, Jason Castro in Hou, Plawecki in Bos, these are all far superior players to someone like Jacob Nottingham who isn't likely to crack the roster of possibly the worst team in the AL this year. 

[MVP2110]

1 minute ago, Jopal78 said:

As he is out of options, if he doesn't make the Orioles he will be designated for assignment. You are correct if he is put on waivers and was claimed he would have no choice. If he is DFA'd and refuses to go to the minor leagues, he will be a free would become a free agent.

Most teams might carry a fringe major leaguer as their #2 catcher, but most teams don't have aspirations of playing deep into the playoffs. 

Austin Barnes in LA, Manny Pina in ATL, Curt Casali in SF, Jason Castro in Hou, Plawecki in Bos, these are all far superior players to someone like Jacob Nottingham who isn't likely to crack the roster of possibly the worst team in the AL this year. 

While I understand what you are saying. Who are those teams 3rd Catchers? The Brewers had a catching duo that was well thought of and now the short side platoon of that duo will miss the first half of the year. Out of the free agents, internal options, and trade possibilities who do you want that is considerably better? 

Imo considering Omar will start nearly every game against righties, for us it is imperative to find a guy who can start vs lefties. Nottingham has an OPS of 1.039 vs lefties in his career and we know he can handle the pitching staff. He seems like a perfect fit for what we need

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

1 minute ago, Jopal78 said:

As he is out of options, if he doesn't make the Orioles he will be designated for assignment. You are correct if he is put on waivers and was claimed he would have no choice. If he is DFA'd and refuses to go to the minor leagues, he will be a free would become a free agent.

Most teams might carry a fringe major leaguer as their #2 catcher, but most teams don't have aspirations of playing deep into the playoffs. 

Austin Barnes in LA, Manny Pina in ATL, Curt Casali in SF, Jason Castro in Hou, Plawecki in Bos, these are all far superior players to someone like Jacob Nottingham who isn't likely to crack the roster of possibly the worst team in the AL this year. 

Pedro Severino is probably superior to Nottingham too, but his poor judgement has put them in a rough spot. All those teams you mentioned are large markets, with the equally large payrolls to easily digest paying good money to a backup catcher. Guess we'll see what the Brewers end up doing, but them grabbing a guy like Nottingham is probably going to be the end result.

[Jopal78]

1 minute ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Pedro Severino is probably superior to Nottingham too, but his poor judgement has put them in a rough spot. All those teams you mentioned are large markets, with the equally large payrolls to easily digest paying good money to a backup catcher. Guess we'll see what the Brewers end up doing, but them grabbing a guy like Nottingham is probably going to be the end result.

I really disagree. I'm not expecting the Brewers to give a multi-million dollar contract for a platoon catcher. But they will be able to do better than Nottingham is my point. 

There will likely be real major league catchers cut loose in the next 24 hours, who would be able to help the Brewers more than Jacob Notthingham. I get the former prospect love, but he's already with his 5th organization, he's got over 2200 at bats in the minor leagues compared with 114 across 4 seasons in the major leagues. 

 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

9 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I really disagree. I'm not expecting the Brewers to give a multi-million dollar contract for a platoon catcher. But they will be able to do better than Nottingham is my point. 

There will likely be real major league catchers cut loose in the next 24 hours, who would be able to help the Brewers more than Jacob Notthingham. I get the former prospect love, but he's already with his 5th organization, he's got over 2200 at bats in the minor leagues compared with 114 across 4 seasons in the major leagues. 

 

It's not so much former prospect love as it is the fact that he's a RHH catcher who is familiar with the bulk of the team's pitching staff and organizational philosophies. And no one is saying that they have to stick with him for the whole time Severino is gone. But considering the season starts in 48 hours, they need a backup catcher, and Nottingham may very likely be available, the idea does have some merit.

[brewerfan82]

I just want them to acquire him, eventually trade him to the Mariners, and then eventually have him be the first player effected by the new "Jacob Nottingham" rule

[Jopal78]

16 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

It's not so much former prospect love as it is the fact that he's a RHH catcher who is familiar with the bulk of the team's pitching staff and organizational philosophies. And no one is saying that they have to stick with him for the whole time Severino is gone. But considering the season starts in 48 hours, they need a backup catcher, and Nottingham may very likely be available, the idea does have some merit.

Maybe, but its based solely on the fact he played for the Brewers before and is available, and ignores several relevant facts. The Brewers would have dropped him when they broke camp last year, but he was injured. When he was healthy they immediately dropped him. Milwaukee reacquired him when they were in a temporary bind for 5 games then dropped him a second time.  Since then he's been freely available twice more and the Brewers passed both times. I took a quick look at the game logs, he caught Houser and then Lauer, Boxberger, Hader and Williams out of the pen last year, everyone else he caught I believe is gone. 

It would really be setting their sights low when they have a need for 2nd catcher for at least 80 games this year (let alone if Narvaez got injured)  and they pick up Nottingham

[MVP2110]

4 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Maybe, but its based solely on the fact he played for the Brewers before and is available, and ignores several relevant facts. The Brewers would have dropped him when they broke camp last year, but he was injured. When he was healthy they immediately dropped him. Milwaukee reacquired him when they were in a temporary bind for 5 games then dropped him a second time.  Since then he's been freely available twice more and the Brewers passed both times. I took a quick look at the game logs, he caught Houser and then Lauer, Boxberger, Hader and Williams out of the pen last year, everyone else he caught I believe is gone. 

It would really be setting their sights low when they have a need for 2nd catcher for at least 80 games this year (let alone if Narvaez got injured)  and they pick up Nottingham

It's based on the fact in his career he has mashed lefties so far(albeit in limited ABs) and knows the pitching staff/philosophy so in theory would have a shorter learning curve. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

7 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Maybe, but its based solely on the fact he played for the Brewers before and is available, and ignores several relevant facts. The Brewers would have dropped him when they broke camp last year, but he was injured. When he was healthy they immediately dropped him. Milwaukee reacquired him when they were in a temporary bind for 5 games then dropped him a second time.  Since then he's been freely available twice more and the Brewers passed both times. I took a quick look at the game logs, he caught Houser and then Lauer, Boxberger, Hader and Williams out of the pen last year, everyone else he caught I believe is gone. 

It would really be setting their sights low when they have a need for 2nd catcher for at least 80 games this year (let alone if Narvaez got injured)  and they pick up Nottingham

I am far from a prospect hugger or "run it back" guy. There's been plenty of relevant reasons presented in this thread as to why it makes sense ... namely his success against LH pitching, and his familiarity with the pitching staff and organization. The Brewers passed on him because they had better options available, first in Pina then in Severino. Those guys are no longer options. 

[Jopal78]

15 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

It's based on the fact in his career he has mashed lefties so far(albeit in limited ABs) and knows the pitching staff/philosophy so in theory would have a shorter learning curve. 

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. "Mashed lefties"? He is 8 for 37 against lefties at the MLB level. It's meaningless especially since 6 of the 8 went over the fence. Otherwise if he projects to hit 30 homeruns in 185 at bats they should never have dropped him.

Also, as for familiarity with the staff, certainly Sullivan and Feliciano have been around the pitching staff and have a better rapport. If familiarity was paramount they would just go with their internal options (which is probably the most likely scenario anyhow).

[Jopal78]

1 minute ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I am far from a prospect hugger or "run it back" guy. There's been plenty of relevant reasons presented in this thread as to why it makes sense ... namely his success against LH pitching, and his familiarity with the pitching staff and organization. The Brewers passed on him because they had better options available, first in Pina then in Severino. Those guys are no longer options. 

See my other post. Success against Left Handed Pitching cannot be based on anything other than 6 of his 8 hits against left handed pitching in the majors left the yard. Obviously that's luck or they would be making space for his bust in Cooperstown already. 

He's a dime a dozen fringe major leaguer, they can do better. If the timing is so bad, that they can't, I expect they'll go with internal options of Sullivan or Feliciano. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

1 minute ago, Jopal78 said:

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. "Mashed lefties"? He is 8 for 37 against lefties at the MLB level. It's meaningless especially since 6 of the 8 went over the fence. Otherwise if he projects to hit 30 homeruns in 185 at bats they should never have dropped him.

Also, as for familiarity with the staff, certainly Sullivan and Feliciano have been around the pitching staff and have a better rapport. If familiarity was tantamount they would just go with their internal options (which is probably the most likely scenario anyhow).

It is possible they roll with Feliciano as the #2 catcher, but they also may consider him playing only one or two times a week not conducive to his development. Sullivan is a left-handed hitter, so it doesn't make much sense to carry him on the roster with Narvaez.

[MVP2110]

8 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. "Mashed lefties"? He is 8 for 37 against lefties at the MLB level. It's meaningless especially since 6 of the 8 went over the fence. Otherwise if he projects to hit 30 homeruns in 185 at bats they should never have dropped him.

Also, as for familiarity with the staff, certainly Sullivan and Feliciano have been around the pitching staff and have a better rapport. If familiarity was tantamount they would just go with their internal options (which is probably the most likely scenario anyhow).

He had an OPS of .973 vs lefties in the minors last year. 

And you still haven't answered what is your preferred option? What catcher is available that's better

[Jopal78]

2 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

He had an OPS of .973 vs lefties in the minors last year. 

And you still haven't answered what is your preferred option? What catcher is available that's better

The minors? Who cares? There isn't a Clayton Kershaw, Max Fried or even Blake Snell in AAA.

The White Sox have 3 catchers in camp, all without options (Grandal, Reese McGuire, Seby Zavala). The Padres have 3 catchers in camp all without options (Victor Caratini, Austin Nola, Jorge Alfaro). One of the catcher from each of those teams will likely be looking for a new home. They've all played a good number of innings. 

Tony Wolters has played a lot in MLB, he's a NRI with the Dodgers should be freely available. Austin Romine has played a lot, he's a NRI with the Angels. Greyson Greiner is an NRI with the D'Backs he played a lot last year. Slim pickings but there are options who offer more than Nottingham. 

[MVP2110]

8 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

The minors? Who cares? There isn't a Clayton Kershaw, Max Fried or even Blake Snell in AAA.

The White Sox have 3 catchers in camp, all without options (Grandal, Reese McGuire, Seby Zavala). The Padres have 3 catchers in camp all without options (Victor Caratini, Austin Nola, Jorge Alfaro). One of the catcher from each of those teams will likely be looking for a new home. They've all played a good number of innings. 

Tony Wolters has played a lot in MLB, he's a NRI with the Dodgers should be freely available. Austin Romine has played a lot, he's a NRI with the Angels. Greyson Greiner is an NRI with the D'Backs he played a lot last year. Slim pickings but there are options who offer more than Nottingham. 

Tony Wolters, Jorge Alfaro, Seby Zavala all are pretty bad with the bat. They might be able to hold their own defensively but would basically be a blackhole on offense. Whereas Nottingham atleast has a small history of being able to handle the short side of a platoon with Narvaez. 

[Oxy]

Alfaro is raking this Spring though...to the point of maybe making the team as a third C/OF.  Any of the other guys mentioned would probably be fine too.  Basically I just want a guy who won't lose games because of his defense and hits lefties better than a pitcher in order to give Omar a couple days off per week.  It would be nice if Feliciano is that guy, but will he not lose games behind the plate?

[brewerfan82]

Just for reference, 2019-21 vs. LHP:

Defense 2019-21:

[MVP2110]

22 minutes ago, brewerfan82 said:

Just for reference, 2019-21 vs. LHP:

Defense 2019-21:

I think based on the above names I'd put Alfaro 1 and Nottingham 2 but it's close. Nola 3 & Caritini 4. Those 4 are clearly above the rest imo

[djoctagone]

6 hours ago, brewerfan82 said:

I just want them to acquire him, eventually trade him to the Mariners, and then eventually have him be the first player effected [sic] by the new "Jacob Nottingham" rule

the new rule that you're referring to doesn't impede trades in any way, shape or form. it only impedes a club's second attempt in a season to try to claim the same player off outright waivers.

[SRB]

I would just sign Wilson Ramos. He's probably not looking for much at this point in the offseason if you can offer him a guaranteed major league spot to open the season. Unless he's injured?