Pedro Severino suspended 80 games without pay following a positive test for Clomiphene

[BrewCrewBBQ]

2 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

I think you’re making a huge assumption about pro-ball players. Every year there are players who show up to camp and tell the media they’ve begun watching their nutrition (Urias this year for example, Cain last year etc.) as part of a plan to improve. 
 

if a not a insignificant amount of players aren’t even monitoring what they eat, there’s zero chance they’re  monitoring the compounds in medications they’re given by physicians 
 

Severino most likely has been fantastic at baseball since he was a child. Moreover like many pro ball players he likely has a high school level education. Nobody here knows what kind of athlete he is off the field, or whether it was an honest mistake or something more nefarious. 

 

Let’s say, hypothetically, that you were born in the DR. Now, hypothetically, you made $1.8M last year. Assuming you do actually want to start a family but are having troubles, you look at your healthcare benefits and see that you’re an MLB player with actual health insurance. Assuming all of that is true, do you go find a fertility physician stateside or in the DR?

[Hopper]

Losing Severino isn't a season killer, but if he plays 33% of our games, it is a difference maker.  Now we have to find a guy that can produce the same at this late date.

So no, our season isn't over, and I haven't seen anyone say it is, but it does factor in.

[CheeseheadInQC]

2 hours ago, clancyphile said:

Maybe they should have dealt Turang instead of Hummel.

Or just paid Pina...

Maybe NOT have Fry on the list of PTBNL for Cleveland...

It was pretty clear from how they used them in the minors that the Brewers viewed Hummel as a get you through the end of a game catcher and Fry as maybe a get you through a 10-day IL stint catcher. Neither would have been an option here.

[Patrick425]

18 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

I don't think most people, when their doctor writes them a script, ask the doctor or pharmacists "what's in it"? Rather, people ask what the medication does and what are the side effects. Likewise, there are over 120 banned substances in MLB, no player is going to keep a list in their wallet and double check (or place an international call etc. to find out).

It's easy to look at the amount of  forfeiture Severino will suffer and call him an idiot, But most people do the same thing everyday when receiving a prescription. 

Not sure I agree with you.  Can you really compare what is at stake for "most people" to that of a MLB player or any other athlete?  If what I put in my body could possibly cost me half my annual pay and not allow me to do my job and let down the people I work with (and fans as a baseball player), I think I would email my doctor a list (really not hard to do in this day or age - placing an "international call" is really not a big deal these days either) and/or have some outside consultant (agent?) to double or triple check that I'm not going to fail a drug test. I don't think its unreasonable to think with the amount of money players make and all that is at stake that they would take these precautions. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

2 hours ago, clancyphile said:

Maybe they should have dealt Turang instead of Hummel.

Or just paid Pina...

Maybe NOT have Fry on the list of PTBNL for Cleveland...

Or just realize that the role of a backup catcher to Narvaez, who was an all star last season, can likely be filled decently by a replacement level player and not be sweating it too much when there seems to be internal options available to fill this role for a couple months until Severino returns.

And Cooper Hummel is flipping 27 years old and never has been considered a good defensive catcher - he isn't a prospect, he's Crash Davis.  He likely makes the lowly Diamondbacks' opening day roster due to a ballooned roster size and an oblique injury to Luplow.

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, BrewCrewBBQ said:

Let’s say, hypothetically, that you were born in the DR. Now, hypothetically, you made $1.8M last year. Assuming you do actually want to start a family but are having troubles, you look at your healthcare benefits and see that you’re an MLB player with actual health insurance. Assuming all of that is true, do you go find a fertility physician stateside or in the DR?

Pretty certain if he's not a US Citizen, it would prove kind of difficult to just run up to the US in the offseason for a doctor's appointment - they didn't start exploring medical assistance for infertility until after the 2021 season when he was back home in the Dominican.

[BrewCrewBBQ]

12 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Pretty certain if he's not a US Citizen, it would prove kind of difficult to just run up to the US in the offseason for a doctor's appointment - they didn't start exploring medical assistance for infertility until after the 2021 season when he was back home in the Dominican.

That’s what I would say, too. People struggle with infertility for years before seeing a physician about it. It’s not just, *we did the thing like three times, no baby. Better go see the local quack*
 

He is probably guilty. Like 90%. Maybe he saw a quack, but we need to stop defending this type of stuff. The drug doesn’t help men that are having issues, it’s for women.
 

If it was Wilson Contreras y’all would be all over him. “Oh, sure it was for infertility. Story doesn’t add up.” Call a duck a duck and move on. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

30 minutes ago, BrewCrewBBQ said:

He is probably guilty. Like 90%. Maybe he saw a quack, but we need to stop defending this type of stuff. The drug doesn’t help men that are having issues, it’s for women.

You really, really need to come off this idea. It comes across as very "know it all"-ish and insensitive, especially considering a poster in this very thread admitted that his MD, in Wisconsin, prescribed this to him for the same exact reason Severino described. There is also PLENTY of information out there that is of the belief that it does have benefits for males.

[CheeseheadInQC]

43 minutes ago, BrewCrewBBQ said:

That’s what I would say, too. People struggle with infertility for years before seeing a physician about it. It’s not just, *we did the thing like three times, no baby. Better go see the local quack*
 

He is probably guilty. Like 90%. Maybe he saw a quack, but we need to stop defending this type of stuff. The drug doesn’t help men that are having issues, it’s for women.
 

If it was Wilson Contreras y’all would be all over him. “Oh, sure it was for infertility. Story doesn’t add up.” Call a duck a duck and move on. 

Is it vaguely suspect, sure, but only because all of the excuses are. Chances are the first thing you do is talk to your regular doctor (possibly his but likely hers) and after that hopefully go to the specialist. Nothing about that part of the story would make me any more suspicious than the baseline of suspicion I have in all these cases.

[jerichoholicninja]

Goldent Tate had the same excuse for his PED suspension last year so there is precedence for this happening. Whether people are being 100% honest or not I can't say but it has happened before. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

48 minutes ago, BrewCrewBBQ said:

That’s what I would say, too. People struggle with infertility for years before seeing a physician about it. It’s not just, *we did the thing like three times, no baby. Better go see the local quack*
 

He is probably guilty. Like 90%. Maybe he saw a quack, but we need to stop defending this type of stuff. The drug doesn’t help men that are having issues, it’s for women.
 

If it was Wilson Contreras y’all would be all over him. “Oh, sure it was for infertility. Story doesn’t add up.” Call a duck a duck and move on. 

He said they tried starting a family in 2020........so they indeed probably tried things the old fashioned way for 1+ years before seeking medical help.  I'm pretty certain Robert Mathis of the Colts got suspended for Clomid at one point while he was also working through fertility treatments with his wife to try and have a 3rd child (they had their twins after fertility treatments previously).  As an off-brand prescription, Clomid is typically taken by men who may have issues with injuries to the berries - not exactly a rarity among catchers, most likely.

Severino screwed up by not knowing what he was taking could impact his ability to play baseball at the start of this year due to failing a drug test.  Any time a professional athlete finds themselves taking a drug whose intent is to alter hormonal responses, they need to be be extremely careful understanding whether it's a substance that could trigger a suspension from a PED test.  I'm not defending Severino or offering up excuses justifying his decision to take Clomid as part of this fertility treatment - he's out half the season because of it and that sucks for both the Brewers and more importantly him.

That all being said, you are way off base instantly jumping to say he took this strictly for on field performance issues.  There are many other drugs that players would opt to take first before Clomid to get that effect, which is typically used as a masking agent in conjunction with steroid use or to try and trigger the body to start producing testosterone if someone has previously been on roids and their body can no longer produce it naturally.  This is Severino's 1st positive test in over 10 years of professional baseball and many prior drug tests, so I'm going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt at this point even if I don't think his decision was the right one to take it.

 

[NBBrewFan]

How do you ignore a user? 

[patrickgpe]

Isn't it more productive to discuss options for backup catcher rather than go on rants about PED use and make accusations when you don't know any of the facts of the case minus what the player said. 

[brewerfan82]

12 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

How do you ignore a user? 

There's an ignore button in the popup that appears if you hover their profile image

[Thurston Fluff]

"Yea I was taking something to benefit my performance and got caught." Is something rarely said by anyone who ever tested positive. I imagine of those who did take something by accident most feel pretty bad for being stupid enough not to ask. I also imagine those who took it on purpose feel pretty bad for being stupid enough to get caught. So either way I'm sure he feels the same about it whether he did it on purpose or not. Embarrassed and sorry.

[CheeseheadInQC]

18 hours ago, DR28 said:

So Brian Navarreto isnt listed on Nashville's roster... Curious if that is a glitch or maybe he's being called up to be the backup?

I think there is a better chance given the roster machinations the Brewers are presumably having to do at AAA that he, at the risk of being glib, came down with a bad case of thirdcatcheritis. It sounds like he is a quality defender, but the offense hasn't been great and he has reverse splits so he wouldn't be the best option to spell Narvaez against lefties.

[brewerfan82]

 

[patrickgpe]

its good news that they are working on improving that position rather than just doing next man up. 

[brewerfan82]

Interesting he said they're talking to catchers (as opposed to talking to teams about possible trades). Not sure if that necessarily means outside of the organization or not.

Unsigned FA catchers: https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/free-agent-tracker?sign=unsigned&pos=c

Wilson Ramos would be an intriguing pickup at this point (the other two, not so much).

2019-21 vs. LHP:

2019-21 Defense:

[patrickgpe]

Ramos would be the one that makes sense. He profiles similarly to me as severino as well. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

11 minutes ago, brewerfan82 said:

Interesting he said they're talking to catchers (as opposed to talking to teams about possible trades). Not sure if that necessarily means outside of the organization or not.

Unsigned FA catchers: https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/free-agent-tracker?sign=unsigned&pos=c

Wilson Ramos would be an intriguing pickup at this point (the other two, not so much).

2019-21 vs. LHP:

2019-21 Defense:

Wilson Ramos has been utterly atrocious the last couple years after a solid 2019. He'll be 35 in August. I think he's done.

[brewerfan82]

Good observation. I might still take a flyer on him and see if he can bounce back with limited playing time for half a season, but only if he's basically free.

2020-21 vs. LHP:

[NBBrewFan]

He still walks at a very good rate and K's at below league average.  While he may not be great with the bat, his defense doesn't appear to be atrocious. He could be fine batting against LHP and giving Narvaez the odd day off until Severino is back.  

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

2 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

He still walks at a very good rate and K's at below league average.  While he may not be great with the bat, his defense doesn't appear to be atrocious. He could be fine batting against LHP and giving Narvaez the odd day off until Severino is back.  

He also tore his ACL and MCL on Aug. 29 of last year. While some professional athletes have made a 7-month recovery from that type of injury, I wouldn't imagine that a 34-year-old, 250 lb catcher would be ready to go quite yet.

[NBBrewFan]

6 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

He also tore his ACL and MCL on Aug. 29 of last year. While some professional athletes have made a 7-month recovery from that type of injury, I wouldn't imagine that a 34-year-old, 250 lb catcher would be ready to go quite yet.

LOL.  I've been using 2023 for the year all day! Had to rewrite one check twice because I wrote 2023.

So the 18 month window from his ACL didn't seem an issue to me. 

OK.  Back in 2022, yes if Bahk couldn't make it back in 12 months, I highly doubt a Catcher who needs to crouch for several hours isn't back this early or at all in 2022 (TWENTY-TWENTY-TWO).