Pedro Severino suspended 80 games without pay following a positive test for Clomiphene

[Oxy]

2 minutes ago, Patrick425 said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't there something in place for players go to the league about any medication they are prescribed to confirm it is not on the banned list before they take it.  Seems like as a player, you would be extra careful about this.

It sounds like this happened during the lockout. If he wasn't getting tested perhaps he didn't care--there was far from a guarantee of there being Spring baseball this year.  I don't know how long it's in the system, and I don't know when he was tested but there are at least plausible timeframes that make this just a stupid mistake but not an egregiously negligent one (assuming it WAS an innocent-ish mistake)

[NBBrewFan]

2 minutes ago, clancyphile said:

Which is why MLB needs to revamp the drug policy.

80 games for this makes no sense and is nowhere near proportional.

It's unfortunate for those involved, but why do they need to change anything?  Testing doesn't determine intent, it just determines presence of banned substances.  Whether he intended to or didn't (had a medically prescribed use) is irrelevant for any testing scheme as it's near impossible to prove/disprove intent. 

[CheezWizHed]

If all it takes to get around the drug policy is to get a doctor's prescription, everyone will have a prescription... somehow you need a common playing field.

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, Patrick425 said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't there something in place for players go to the league about any medication they are prescribed to confirm it is not on the banned list before they take it.  Seems like as a player, you would be extra careful about this.

Edit: Oh, perhaps the lockout prevented him from doing this.  Still....should maybe have provided the bans substance list to the doctor for confirmation.

I don't think most people, when their doctor writes them a script, ask the doctor or pharmacists "what's in it"? Rather, people ask what the medication does and what are the side effects. Likewise, there are over 120 banned substances in MLB, no player is going to keep a list in their wallet and double check (or place an international call etc. to find out).

It's easy to look at the amount of  forfeiture Severino will suffer and call him an idiot, But most people do the same thing everyday when receiving a prescription. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

2 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I don't think most people, when their doctor writes them a script, ask the doctor or pharmacists "what's in it"? Rather, people ask what the medication does and what are the side effects. Likewise, there are over 120 banned substances in MLB, no player is going to keep a list in their wallet and double check (or place an international call etc. to find out).

It's easy to look at the amount of  forfeiture Severino will suffer and call him an idiot, But most people do the same thing everyday when receiving a prescription. 

Most people's jobs don't require them to be randomly and frequently tested for athletic performance-enhancing drugs (or any drugs for that note) - as a professional athlete whose livelihood is entirely dependent on his body, there is no excuse for him to not know everything that goes into it...particularly any sort of medication or drugs that are used to alter hormonal responses for human beings.

I actually believe his story - but that doesn't mean he's not culpable for screwing up even if his intentions were focused on off the field issues.  There are always alternative options/approaches in struggling with infertility - as a father of 2 adopted children after my family's own initial infertility struggle that made us feel more like lab rats than patients I can most certainly attest to that - and many of those options don't require any drug prescriptions or treatments that could risk losing his job as a professional baseball player.

[clancyphile]

1 hour ago, NBBrewFan said:

It's unfortunate for those involved, but why do they need to change anything?  Testing doesn't determine intent, it just determines presence of banned substances.  Whether he intended to or didn't (had a medically prescribed use) is irrelevant for any testing scheme as it's near impossible to prove/disprove intent. 

In this sort of situation - a doctor's prescription for a medical issue - maybe an 80-game suspension with no questions asked is NOT the right course of action.

For those cases, maybe a warning is appropriate for the first time before you turn to suspending.

[owbc]

If this is a cover story (which I highly doubt), I'd say it's a pretty creative one. I'm assuming the Brewers will bring him back at the end of the suspension. 

Somewhat-relevant anecdote -- a few years ago I ran a race that had a randomized drug testing policy using the extremely long list of drugs prohibited by the world anti-doping agency. Good luck running your prescriptions/supplements against that list. I'm assuming that many of these minor league guys do the same thing that I did -- plug whatever they are taking into Google and figure out if it's likely to cause a positive test or not. If you do that for Clomid, you do get some results suggesting it could cause a positive test. So, yes, this is on Pedro for not doing his due diligence, which he has admitted and apologized for. That's life. 

[NBBrewFan]

24 minutes ago, clancyphile said:

In this sort of situation - a doctor's prescription for a medical issue - maybe an 80-game suspension with no questions asked is NOT the right course of action.

For those cases, maybe a warning is appropriate for the first time before you turn to suspending.

You can get a doctor's prescription for almost anything, especially if you are paying cash. I'm sure most players can find a doctor to write an anabolic steroids prescription, with a human growth hormone chaser.  That doesn't mean you have a free pass to take them and when MLB detects the drugs then you should get a warning because, hey I got a prescription! Again, you can't legislate around intent because you have no basis to ascertain the intent.  I'm sure 95% of baseball players would have a "fertility problem" if they found out they could take clomiphene without getting into trouble. He said he took it for a fertility issue. Ok, I believe him.  Could he have taken it for a performance advantage? Yes. The likelihood you can prove which is correct is pretty low and not worth the effort.  First offense, 80 games is appropriate. 

Edit: Of course, IMHO.

[HarryDoyle]

If only we had a competent catcher from last year's team that we could've/should've kept on to.

[JohnBriggs12]

 

6 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

yeah catcher is probably the worst position in the organization to lose a back-up for half the season. I am sure it will be Sullivan if they don't find someone who was cut and out of options. 

Giving away Payton Henry for John Curtiss looks like a major blunder now doesn't it?  

[Outlander]

He's had 5 singles, don't think Henry will be that  great but career backup is probably his path which isn't a bad gig.

[JohnBriggs12]

13 minutes ago, Outlander said:

He's had 5 singles, don't think Henry will be that  great but career backup is probably his path which isn't a bad gig.

Brewers are in need of a backup and he might be better right now than the candidates they have.  I'd sink or swim with Feliciano.  He's just a couple years away from being one of their top prospects.  His 2020 and 2021 were lost years but here's an opportunity to put all that behind him.  He wasn't bad in the AFL last fall either.

[sveumrules]

12 minutes ago, JohnBriggs12 said:

Giving away Payton Henry for John Curtiss looks like a major blunder now doesn't it?  

Giving away Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas was a major blunder.

Trading Payton Henry for John Curtiss is likely an inconsequential footnote in baseball history.

[Robocaller]

6 hours ago, BrewCrewBBQ said:

Is that known for fact, or it’s a cover story?

It's used to increase Testosterone and sperm count, off label, for men.

[Robocaller]

5 hours ago, BrewCrewBBQ said:

https://www.usada.org/spirit-of-sport/education/substance-profile-clomiphene/
 

It doesn’t do anything for males except increase muscle mass and maybe hurt your liver. 
 

His doc is a quack or Pedro is guilty. There is no in between. His doc very well may be a quack, but we should stop pretending it’s a common thing men take to counter infertility. 
 

A doctor may prescribe off label, because the drug was approved for other use and deemed safe enough for human use. That doesn’t mean it works. 

you're incorrect. It's used frequently.

[sveumrules]

How many games would Severino start out of those 80 games? 20-25?

How much value would he have put up in those games? I can’t imagine too many starting catchers (much less backups) average one win per 20-25 games.

Last year the 31st best catcher (“best backup C”) put up 0.6 WAR behind the dish, the 90th best catcher (“worst 3rd C”) came in at -0.2 WAR, so a lil less than a full win spread over 162 games.

[NBBrewFan]

1 hour ago, JohnBriggs12 said:

 

Giving away Payton Henry for John Curtiss looks like a major blunder now doesn't it?  

My $10 bet on the Brewers to win the World Series looks pretty foolish now.

[tmwiese55]

I generally believe the story.  But I've long been one who thinks they've overdone it with the test procedures.

As someone just said, as long as Omar doesn't get hurt this is only 20-25 games.  I'm fairly confident Stearns will find a RH C with decent splits vs lefties to fill in.   Now if Omar gets hurt then it's a much bigger blow, as Severino can at least pass for a low end starting C in MLB.

[DR28]

So Brian Navarreto isnt listed on Nashville's roster... Curious if that is a glitch or maybe he's being called up to be the backup?

[Joseph Zarr]

Well, have any of us asked the obvious question:

 

Did they get pregnant? I sure as heck hope so!

[adambr2]

It makes no difference to me whether Severino is telling the truth or not. He's either lying/cheating or careless and the penalties are the same for both. 

In his line of work you absolutely have to know what you're putting into your body especially when you know what you're taking relates to testosterone. This is obviously not a civilian desk job where taking a prescription like that would never even cross your mind twice. 

 

[Jopal78]

3 hours ago, adambr2 said:

It makes no difference to me whether Severino is telling the truth or not. He's either lying/cheating or careless and the penalties are the same for both. 

In his line of work you absolutely have to know what you're putting into your body especially when you know what you're taking relates to testosterone. This is obviously not a civilian desk job where taking a prescription like that would never even cross your mind twice. 

 

I think you’re making a huge assumption about pro-ball players. Every year there are players who show up to camp and tell the media they’ve begun watching their nutrition (Urias this year for example, Cain last year etc.) as part of a plan to improve. 
 

if a not a insignificant amount of players aren’t even monitoring what they eat, there’s zero chance they’re  monitoring the compounds in medications they’re given by physicians 
 

Severino most likely has been fantastic at baseball since he was a child. Moreover like many pro ball players he likely has a high school level education. Nobody here knows what kind of athlete he is off the field, or whether it was an honest mistake or something more nefarious. 

 

[WV Brew]

Agree with JohnBriggs12.  Just go with Feliciano.  He will be 24 this year.  Time to get on with it.  He has the best chance to improve the team over last year if he is successful.  Might fail but that's the chance you have to take as a small market team.

[clancyphile]

14 hours ago, JohnBriggs12 said:

 

Giving away Payton Henry for John Curtiss looks like a major blunder now doesn't it?  

Maybe they should have dealt Turang instead of Hummel.

Or just paid Pina...

Maybe NOT have Fry on the list of PTBNL for Cleveland...

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

22 minutes ago, clancyphile said:

Maybe they should have dealt Turang instead of Hummel.

Or just paid Pina...

Maybe NOT have Fry on the list of PTBNL for Cleveland...

#2 catchers are typically actually catchers. Also, on what planet is Hummel comparable to Turang as a prospect?