Pedro Severino suspended 80 games without pay following a positive test for Clomiphene

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

15 minutes ago, BuckyBrewer61 said:

Clomiphene is a fertility medication that induces ovulation in women.  In men, it obviously does not have that affect, which is why it is not prescribed to men.  Ever.

In men, it affects the hormonal axis in a manner which increases testosterone levels, which is why it is a PED.

There is no physiologic reason, nor FDA-approved indication, for a man to take clomiphene.  Even if he is going through fertility treatments with his wife.

Either Severino's doctor is a quack, or he took it for performance enhancement

You can choose to believe whichever you wish.

You are simply incorrect. It, in fact, IS prescribed to men, and there is plenty of information out there to back that notion up.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324373#when-do-doctors-prescribe-it

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's fair to immediately jump to the "that guy cheated, he's a scumball" response every time something like this happens.

[Jopal78]

The timing is really unfortunate. The White Sox just traded Zack Collins last week to the Blue Jays for Reese McGuire who is out of options. The Sox also have out Selby Zavala who is also out of options. Obviously both McGuire and Zavala are behind Grandal.

From the Brewers perspective, Collins would have been a better get due to pedigree and options, but the Sox could very well dump Zavala or McGuire later today. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

5 minutes ago, BrewCrewBBQ said:

You did. I’m not trying to be confrontational, just trying to approach with a level mindset. 
A few thoughts:

-I have no doubt the prescription is real. He went to a doctor in the DR and got a prescription

-I want to believe him

-Players and agents need to be better. Double check the list. Seems really easy.

-This medication isn’t even proven to aid in infertility, it statistically was the same as placebo.
-This is exactly the type of drug one could take if they wanted to cheat, but have a cover story. 

Formatting here is way whacky, sorry. On my phone. 

He accepted the punishment. Why would a guy create a cover story that is more embarrassing than simply not having one?  

[NBBrewFan]

13 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

How many catchers in baseball would you qualify as a sure thing?

I'm guessing the response would be every catcher not on the Brewers.  Seems like the point that keeps coming out post after post.

[BuckyBrewer61]

13 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

You are simply incorrect. It, in fact, IS prescribed to men, and there is plenty of information out there to back that notion up.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324373#when-do-doctors-prescribe-it

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's fair to immediately jump to the "that guy cheated, he's a scumball" response every time something like this happens.

Not saying he's a scumbag, at all. 

 

In fact, I honestly don't really blame guys (especially guys on the fringe of MLB like a backup catcher) for doing PEDs.  There are millions of dollars at stake, and if they see other guys all around them - that they are competing for a roster spot with - using these things...who among us wouldn't be tempted to do the same?  I get it.  He is likely making more money long term by using PEDs than not.  Who knows if he would have ever gotten an MLB payday without them.

I'm just saying, clompihene is a known PED, on the MLB PED list, and he is a professional baseball player.  Best case scenario, if his statement is true, it was haphazard and irresponsible of him to take anything that is now going to cost him about a million dollars.

Again, choose whatever you want to believe.  For me, if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...it's probably a duck.  And that doesn't make the duck a scumbag.

 

 

[BuckyBrewer61]

24 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

He accepted the punishment. Why would a guy create a cover story that is more embarrassing than simply not having one?  

Because as you alluded to in an earlier post, for many baseball fans PED use = cheating = scumbag.  I don't feel that way, but many baseball fans do.

The cover story sounds way better than "I took some illegal drugs in order to cheat,"  Which is what many baseball fans would hear if he fessed up.  And even if his story is a total lie, he's not a big enough deal for anyone to dig into it further, call him out, and there's no suspensions for lying.

He gets plausible deniability, some fans buy it, and everyone gets to move on.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

3 minutes ago, BuckyBrewer61 said:

And even if his story is a total lie, he's not a big enough deal for anyone to dig into it further, call him out, and there's no suspensions for lying.

So do you think that the Brewers believe his story? I would imagine they'd just cut him if they thought he was lying on top of letting the team down for half the season.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Just now, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

So do you think that the Brewers believe his story? I would imagine they'd just cut him if they thought he was lying on top of letting the team down for half the season.

No, I don't think they believe it. 

And I think the Brewers have proven pretty conclusively that they don't cut players that make up BS stories about why they have PEDs in their system.  And again...I don't blame them for that, or any professional sports organization, for a second

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

2 minutes ago, BuckyBrewer61 said:

No, I don't think they believe it. 

And I think the Brewers have proven pretty conclusively that they don't cut players that make up BS stories about why they have PEDs in their system.  And again...I don't blame them for that, or any professional sports organization, for a second

There's a big difference between a franchise cornerstone signed to a huge deal like Braun, and a fringy backup catcher. Has there been others at the MLB level who were suspended?

[mtrebs]

42 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

You are simply incorrect. It, in fact, IS prescribed to men, and there is plenty of information out there to back that notion up.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324373#when-do-doctors-prescribe-it

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's fair to immediately jump to the "that guy cheated, he's a scumball" response every time something like this happens.

Without trying to get too personal here, I’m a male and was prescribed clomiphene when my wife and I were dealing with infertility. And it was in Wisconsin. So it definitely is prescribed to males.

[BuckyBrewer61]

14 minutes ago, mtrebs said:

Without trying to get too personal here, I’m a male and was prescribed clomiphene when my wife and I were dealing with infertility. And it was in Wisconsin. So it definitely is prescribed to males.

Well then - I certainly stand corrected.  Thanks for giving your personal perspective.

Maybe I should give him more of the benefit of the doubt, but I'm also not trying to attack him.  I truly don't judge him for using PEDs - if that was his primary reason for taking them.  But I know many baseball fans would.

If his cover story is indeed true (which I still doubt, but am more open to now), then it was very irresponsible of him to take any medication without consulting with team physicians first.  Fertility drugs are well-known PEDs, and have been implicated in high-profile MLB suspensions (see: Manny Ramirez)  As someone who doesn't see players that use PEDs as scumbags...I'd almost be more disappointed in his judgment if the statement is true.

Anyway, that's just my $0.02, and I certainly may be wrong.  Mostly just bummed we lost our backup catcher for half the season.  I'll be rooting for him to have a great season starting in game 81.

[BrewCrewBBQ]

54 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

You are simply incorrect. It, in fact, IS prescribed to men, and there is plenty of information out there to back that notion up.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324373#when-do-doctors-prescribe-it

https://www.usada.org/spirit-of-sport/education/substance-profile-clomiphene/
 

It doesn’t do anything for males except increase muscle mass and maybe hurt your liver. 
 

His doc is a quack or Pedro is guilty. There is no in between. His doc very well may be a quack, but we should stop pretending it’s a common thing men take to counter infertility. 
 

A doctor may prescribe off label, because the drug was approved for other use and deemed safe enough for human use. That doesn’t mean it works. 

[CheezWizHed]

Please stop with the Google doctor advice and keep it to baseball.  

I doubt we have any fertility experts here and we already have one example of a male contributor that took it. 

Believe him or don't.  But stop telling us what the drug will or won't do via Google search. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

10 minutes ago, BuckyBrewer61 said:

... it was very irresponsible of him to take any medication without consulting with team physicians first.  Fertility drugs are well-known PEDs, and have been implicated in high-profile MLB suspensions (see: Manny Ramirez)  As someone who doesn't see players that use PEDs as scumbags...I'd almost be more disappointed in his judgment if the statement is true.

I agree with this. I do wonder if the lockout, and not being able to contact the team's medical staff, might have anything to do with this. It was extremely irresponsible on his part regardless. I would think he had access to medical professionals through the MLBPA. Clomiphene is obviously tested for, so he'd have to be a complete moron to knowingly take it, regardless of the reason behind it.

[CheezWizHed]

It wouldn't surprise me if the thing he took was a mix of many things.  With clomiphene as one of them.  

[patrickgpe]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

This is a big loss with Severino being a potentially nice bat and Narvaez not being a sure thing.

easy there. A big loss is Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, etc. He is the backup catcher and hasn't done much in his career minus being a serviceable backup thats pretty good defensively. Before we freak out or pass judgment lets see how stearns responds. We know he is already talking to teams and FA's. He found out yesterday, give him some time. 

[phnxcrew]

I’d just like to say how dare he ruin the fertility treatment provider’s career.  ?

[Oxy]

What would it take to get Pineapple back from Atlanta?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

9 minutes ago, Oxy said:

What would it take to get Pineapple back from Atlanta?

Considering they let him go because they didn't want to pay him what he ended up getting from the Braves, my guess is they aren't interested.

[jerichoholicninja]

Seems like the vast majority of players that get busted come from Latin America, especially the DR. Is there some sort of language issue, shady doctors, poor manufacturing of whatever stuff they're taking in their home countries, or are Americans just better at beating the tests?

[clancyphile]

3 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Drug was in fertility medication Severino was prescribed in an attempt to start a family with his wife. That sucks. 

So they are suspending him because he was taking a legit prescription?

This makes NO sense!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

1 minute ago, clancyphile said:

So they are suspending him because he was taking a legit prescription?

This makes NO sense!

If it contains a substance that is banned by MLB, it doesn't matter. Most anything that a player could take that is performance enhancing also has a medical use that someone could get a prescription for. 

[sveumrules]

2 minutes ago, clancyphile said:

So they are suspending him because he was taking a legit prescription?

This makes NO sense!

Makes perfect sense to me.

Doctor doesn't know what's on MLB banned substance list, Severino trusts his doctor.

I believe this is what Page/Plant referred to as a Communication Breakdown. It's always the same.

[Patrick425]

13 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Makes perfect sense to me.

Doctor doesn't know what's on MLB banned substance list, Severino trusts his doctor.

I believe this is what Page/Plant referred to as a Communication Breakdown. It's always the same.

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't there something in place for players go to the league about any medication they are prescribed to confirm it is not on the banned list before they take it.  Seems like as a player, you would be extra careful about this.

Edit: Oh, perhaps the lockout prevented him from doing this.  Still....should maybe have provided the bans substance list to the doctor for confirmation.

[clancyphile]

2 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Makes perfect sense to me.

Doctor doesn't know what's on MLB banned substance list, Severino trusts his doctor.

I believe this is what Page/Plant referred to as a Communication Breakdown. It's always the same.

Which is why MLB needs to revamp the drug policy.

80 games for this makes no sense and is nowhere near proportional.