Just face it - we are never real contenders to sign big name FAs

[TURBO]

...we are never real contenders to sign the big name free agents like Story and Correa.

Look at the contracts they end up with.

It's a joke for anyone to say with a straight face that we had a shot at either of them, or anyone else for that matter.

Our only shot at the big names is through trades, and even then, other teams can and do outbid us there too.

It's hard damn work being a Brewers fan.

[sveumrules]

If one judges success by signing free agents, I guess it’s hard damn work being a Brewers fan.

If one judges success by winning games, the Brewers have won the 7th most in MLB over the last 4 seasons, so that would mean about 23 teams have been even more hard damn work to be a fan of.

 

[gebc1997]

While I certainly agree it would be awesome and cool if we signed guys like that to big deals,   If you think about this team already has many players, that if on the free agent market now, would garner such long term high dollar deals.

 

Burnes

Woodruff

Peralta

Adames

Hader

Yelich (at least he did)

 

[sveumrules]

The Phillies signed Bryce Harper (13/330), Zach Wheeler (5/118) & JT Realmuto (5/115) during 2019-21 free agency.

The Phillies went 191-193 from 2019-21, but maybe another 180 million for Schwarber/Castellanos will get them on the right side of .500.

The Padres & Mets were the run away champions of last offseason, both missed the playoffs.

The Rangers spent over a half billion dollars this offseason & they’ll be lucky to finish third in the ALW.

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

If one judges success by signing free agents, I guess it’s hard damn work being a Brewers fan.

If one judges success by winning games, the Brewers have won the 7th most in MLB over the last 4 seasons, so that would mean about 23 teams have been even more hard damn work to be a fan of.

 

I'm not looking for that kind of spin.  You know it, I know it, we all know it, great players make great teams. We are unable to sign players to help us win the World Series like teams with money.   

We may have the 7th most wins, but add a couple great free agent players to that mix and we could have the 3rd most, 4th most, I don't know, the 2nd most wins and a possible world series championship.

I can't be happy with numbers like the 7th most wins when there is no championship behind those numbers.

I know a lot of people are just happy to win games, wind division titles, and can justify it in many different ways.

It's time we get more than a lot of wins, that is no longer enough.

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

The Phillies signed Bryce Harper (13/330), Zach Wheeler (5/118) & JT Realmuto (5/115) during 2019-21 free agency.

The Phillies went 191-193 from 2019-21, but maybe another 180 million for Schwarber/Castellanos will get them on the right side of .500.

The Padres & Mets were the run away champions of last offseason, both missed the playoffs.

The Rangers spent over a half billion dollars this offseason & they’ll be lucky to finish third in the ALW.

Ok, but add players like that to our roster, to our team which is ran pretty damn well.  We start adding guys like that to our mix, and I will bet you that we would have won more games than 7th most.

 

[titletownking]

I think your frustration is a little misguided but also totally understood. Has it felt like the brewers have been a move or two away from the World Series? Yes. Is it frustrating that they haven’t made a significant addition while being so close? Yes. Still a really good team but it does feel like every year we’re having this same debate. When is the year to go all in? When Burnes and Woodruff are on the last years of there deals? If not now, when? Also, keep in mind that just because they didn’t sign anyone of note(Cutch is fine but not significant), that doesn’t rule them out from a acquiring some yet. 

[Joseph Zarr]

I hear you @turborickey. AND, I'll just say: I've been a Wisconsin professional sports fan my entire life. Part of my own criteria for loving the teams of Wisconsin is the overt understanding they will always be the underdog. They will always be the small Market. Spending obscene amounts of money for multiple Stars is simply something they rarely can do. BUT, they do from time to time make moves that surprise even me. However, I would point out: what we tend to discover in every Pro Sport and on the majority of pro sports teams is there is indeed an illusion that a professional athlete making a massive amount of money will translate into glorious successes for their new Club. It simply isn't true. The dopamine of seeing that Star name on the ticker is typically worth more than the acquisition itself. The Washington Commies and Philadelphia Iggles can attest to this. The Rams of this past season, if we're being honest, were also extremely lucky. The Dodgers only have 1 World Series to show for their massive amounts of wealth tossed about.

The Brewers, I would argue, last season were just as qualified as any team in the Playoffs. They very easily could have played the part of the Braves and won the entire thing. However, they simply ran into their worst stretch of baseball in months at the most inopportune time - the last 2 weeks of the regular season and it found its way into the Playoffs. Guys suddenly lost what they had in the batter's box. It is what it is. We will always be a team trying to strike for gold in the bargain bin. Much like the Packers did so this past season with Campbell and Douglas. The Packers, as well, were just as qualified to win a Super Bowl as the forking Rams. They just ran into the ineptitude that was their Special Teams - a unit that had their worst performance in a litany of poor performances under the brightest of lights. It is what it is.

Being a fan can be rough. Personally, as I have grown up and aged, I simply try to enjoy the games. The spectacle of it.  This certainly isn't easy - I feel the Packers alone have stolen years of my life (LOL). I have learned to enjoy when other athletes rise to the occasion and meet the moments, as it were, even if they don't play for 'my team'. But, I no longer expect or demand anything in the Free Agency periods. I just don't. It's a recipe to be let down and that just isn't worth my time.

[reillymcshane]

Edit: title was edited to reflect content of thread

[jerichoholicninja]

If you haven't faced that reality years ago already, I don't know what to tell you. 

[wibadgers23]

I totally understand your frustration and I’m there too. It’s hard to accept but it is what it is - we are a small market. I think we might also have to accept that it might be an organizational philosophy too. I think Stearns and his team run their analytics and truly believe they can get guys at much lower prices who will put up similar numbers to the high priced guys. Would he take the same approach if he had access to a higher payroll (Mets), I don’t know but he doesn’t  really have that much of a choice here. Maybe Mark A REALLY opens up the pocket books some day but I’m not holding my breath and hoping for a marquee free agent to sign here is a hopeless dream. And remember, it goes both ways. Free agents have to want to come to Milwaukee over places like New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, etc. It’s just tough.

[Brock Beauchamp]

While signing free agents is nice, given how good the Brewers are at development, I’m more concerned with seeing them keep what they have. 

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, jerichoholicninja said:

If you haven't faced that reality years ago already, I don't know what to tell you. 

yeah, truth.

?

[TURBO]

5 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

While signing free agents is nice, given how good the Brewers are at development, I’m more concerned with seeing them keep what they have. 

See, that's a problem too.

We can develop all the talent we want, but we can't afford to keep them once they are good.

Will we have any chance to keep Burnes and Woodruff?

[TURBO]

Also, I'm not saying we should be paying those contracts for these guys, but it would be nice if we could if needed.  (There are those on this site that beg and beg to pay whatever it takes to get these type of players, I'm not in that camp, I just hate the fact that we don't have any shot in hell of EVER getting these players, we just don't)

"All in" never truly means "all in" in Milwaukee.  We simply can't do it.

[Adam Rygg]

30 minutes ago, turborickey said:

Will we have any chance to keep Burnes and Woodruff?

There's another thing that needs mentioning so that more people connect the dots. There's a reason the Brewers wouldn't go to a fourth year to keep either Moustakas or Grandal when they left town. They were earmarking money in that year for when Yelich's contract (that they were planning on even though it hadn't yet been signed) would get more expensive annually.

The payroll in a smaller market must be viewed with a wide angle lens. Maybe they trade Hader before he could leave as a free agent not because they can't afford Hader but because they prefer to spend that money on Burnes and Woody. Maybe they let Avi Garcia sign his deal with Miami and trade for Renfroe (similar production for significantly cheaper) so that they can use that difference to cover arbitration raises and still add a guy like McCutchen for $8.5 million.

It's a tangled web, but after signing Yelich to his extension, they need to be thinking ahead all the time. Cain's money comes off the payroll after this season. That's a healthy chunk to maybe extend Hader...

[JosephC]

Here are the top 10 television market in the US-

NY, LA, Chicago, Philly, Dallas, San Fran, Boston, Atlanta, Washington, Houston

9 of the last 10 World Series winners have come from those markets.  Kansas City in 2015 is the only exception.

Go back 18 years, and 15 of the 18 World Series winners have come from those markets.  KC and 2 World Series wins by the Cardinals.

Here are the bottom five markets-

Milwaukee, Cincy, KC, San Diego, Baltimore

Outside of the 2 World Series appearances by KC, the last time one of the bottom 5 market teams even went to a World Series was San Diego back in 1998.  So yep, these five teams have combined for a grand total of 2 World Series appearances in the last 23 years and that is completely represented by KC in back-to-back seasons. 

[titletownking]

55 minutes ago, JosephC said:

Here are the top 10 television market in the US-

NY, LA, Chicago, Philly, Dallas, San Fran, Boston, Atlanta, Washington, Houston

9 of the last 10 World Series winners have come from those markets.  Kansas City in 2015 is the only exception.

Go back 18 years, and 15 of the 18 World Series winners have come from those markets.  KC and 2 World Series wins by the Cardinals.

Here are the bottom five markets-

Milwaukee, Cincy, KC, San Diego, Baltimore

Outside of the 2 World Series appearances by KC, the last time one of the bottom 5 market teams even went to a World Series was San Diego back in 1998.  So yep, these five teams have combined for a grand total of 2 World Series appearances in the last 23 years and that is completely represented by KC in back-to-back seasons. 

You trying to depress us? Kidding. But also great work summarizing why this is the hardest sport for the little guy to win. It’s why we need to be creative but also extremely aggressive in the windows we do have, like right now. Team needs to be pushing chips in to get over the edge. Don’t feel like they’ve done that in either the trade deadline or so far this offseason. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

10 hours ago, turborickey said:

Ok, but add players like that to our roster, to our team which is ran pretty damn well.  We start adding guys like that to our mix, and I will bet you that we would have won more games than 7th most.

 

If we spent the money necessary to acquire some of these guys, would we still be able to say we're ran "pretty damn well"? The ability of this organization to maintain, to make moves, etc IMO starts & ends with a deep farm system. We're once again building towards that. There's may someday be a time & place to make a "go for it" signing, but I think putting ourselves in position to be competitive, then swinging a deal at the trade deadline is what you'll see more often. And I'm fine with that.

[John Jahahaha]

14 hours ago, turborickey said:

I'm not looking for that kind of spin.  You know it, I know it, we all know it, great players make great teams. We are unable to sign players to help us win the World Series like teams with money.   

We may have the 7th most wins, but add a couple great free agent players to that mix and we could have the 3rd most, 4th most, I don't know, the 2nd most wins and a possible world series championship.

I can't be happy with numbers like the 7th most wins when there is no championship behind those numbers.

I know a lot of people are just happy to win games, wind division titles, and can justify it in many different ways.

It's time we get more than a lot of wins, that is no longer enough.

While I do think this free agent class didn't have many great fits for our needs with the big-money folks, I'm with you. Credit is due to the FO for swinging some nice mid-season trades these past few years, but it always stings to be on the outside looking in, be it regarding free agency or, of course, for winning the big one. We have so much pitching talent, and I am hoping against hope that somehow we can get over the hump before it's too late. The Bucks' championship was so spectacular, and it would be indescribable if the Brewers could pull it off just once.

(Was hoping to get this in before the "it's so gosh durn nice to make the playoffs these past few years, ope" crowd, but alas)

[Oxy]

I find this a little bit odd in that we HAVE signed a big name young MVP player to a long term extension....and that is easily the WORST move of Stearns' career.

I'm not saying it was a bad move at the time--however it's comforting to realize that there is actually a significant downside to signing FAs to huge contracts.  There is little to no downside to developing an excellent scouting staff combined with an intelligent GM and FO that can assemble a ridiculous amount of cheap young talent that can win year after year after year.  ESPECIALLY when you CAN take your shots and sign a Ryan Braun or Christian Yelich long term, and then fill in with short to medium contracts for all-stars like Cain, Moustakas, Grandal, etc.

Hopefully Yelich rebounds in a big way this year..

[Joseph Zarr]

I think, perhaps, a new question we can begin asking ourselves given our Starting pitching depth - I say this especially given what I am seeing from Ethan Small as I believe he has taken the proverbial next step - is:

 

Who are current candidates, and who will become candidates in season, to become our next Wily Adames? 
 

I know it is unrealistic to envision that type of annual impact in the trade Market BUT given it is probably the Brewers best means of acquiring Blue Chip talent at a depressed value, it is worth considering.

[sveumrules]

16 hours ago, turborickey said:

See, that's a problem too.

We can develop all the talent we want, but we can't afford to keep them once they are good.

Will we have any chance to keep Burnes and Woodruff?

Whatever slim chance we might have to keep Burnes or Woodruff or Hader or Adames would be even slimmer if there were a bunch of expensive FA on the roster eating up payroll.

[jerichoholicninja]

More than likely the same people complaining about not signing "big name" free agents are the same ones complaining that we can't get rid of Cain or the Yelich contract was a mistake and Braun's contract was an albatross. 

[reillymcshane]

Yeah, big time free agents aren't going to come to Milwaukee. Maybe once in a blue moon everything will work out - such as with Cain - but it's just not going to happen very often. 

I never (except for fun) look at big time free agents and think 'what if we sign him'. I just know it's not happening. 

It is what it is. I can't change how things work - so I try not to let it bother me.