Why won’t MLBPA agree to International Draft?

[edfunderburk]

Not sure where this question fits best

 

In layman’s terms … WHY?

 

I don’t understand why an international draft is a bad idea

[madbad2000]

Not sure where this question fits best

 

In layman’s terms … WHY?

 

I don’t understand why an international draft is a bad idea

 

Because it benefits the owners financially and they are using it as a bargaining position to get what they want. You also have former international signees who want the system to stay because it brings a lot of money to their country and communities regardless of how well those players perform. These 16 year olds get their bonus straight up which means more people benefit within their country. A draft will suppress that influx of cash and put a cap on earnings for the vast majority since it will have hard slotted bonuses. The top prospects will still get their millions, but those players towards the middle and bottom will be phased out of their life changing money comparatively. A 16 year old with a $100k bonus has changed the trajectory of their whole family in the Dominican Republic, et al whereas MLB teams throw that around pretty easily to hopefully hit on a gem. A draft will limit that for the vast majority of players.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Not sure where this question fits best

 

In layman’s terms … WHY?

 

I don’t understand why an international draft is a bad idea

 

Because it benefits the owners financially and they are using it as a bargaining position to get what they want. You also have former international signees who want the system to stay because it brings a lot of money to their country and communities regardless of how well those players perform. These 16 year olds get their bonus straight up which means more people benefit within their country. A draft will suppress that influx of cash and put a cap on earnings for the vast majority since it will have hard slotted bonuses. The top prospects will still get their millions, but those players towards the middle and bottom will be phased out of their life changing money comparatively. A 16 year old with a $100k bonus has changed the trajectory of their whole family in the Dominican Republic, et al whereas MLB teams throw that around pretty easily to hopefully hit on a gem. A draft will limit that for the vast majority of players.

 

I guess I don't know where the draft slots would fall, but only seven of the players the Brewers signed in the most recent signing period got $100,000 or more. Most got $10,000. In contrast, only one of the draft picks the Brewers signed out of I believe 14 or 15 got less than $100,000.

[owbc]

Not sure where this question fits best

 

In layman’s terms … WHY?

 

I don’t understand why an international draft is a bad idea

 

Because it benefits the owners financially and they are using it as a bargaining position to get what they want. You also have former international signees who want the system to stay because it brings a lot of money to their country and communities regardless of how well those players perform. These 16 year olds get their bonus straight up which means more people benefit within their country. A draft will suppress that influx of cash and put a cap on earnings for the vast majority since it will have hard slotted bonuses. The top prospects will still get their millions, but those players towards the middle and bottom will be phased out of their life changing money comparatively. A 16 year old with a $100k bonus has changed the trajectory of their whole family in the Dominican Republic, et al whereas MLB teams throw that around pretty easily to hopefully hit on a gem. A draft will limit that for the vast majority of players.

 

I guess I don't know where the draft slots would fall, but only seven of the players the Brewers signed in the most recent signing period got $100,000 or more. Most got $10,000. In contrast, only one of the draft picks the Brewers signed out of I believe 14 or 15 got less than $100,000.

 

At the end of the day it's a complicated and significant change, not something you want to be considering at the last second. Plus there were strong objections (or at least strong concerns) from many Dominican players. It's a shame because it looked like we might have been able to get a deal prior to this becoming the big point of contention.

[CheeseheadInQC]

 

At the end of the day it's a complicated and significant change, not something you want to be considering at the last second. Plus there were strong objections (or at least strong concerns) from many Dominican players. It's a shame because it looked like we might have been able to get a deal prior to this becoming the big point of contention.

 

I completely agree with you there.

[wibadgers23]

The owners gave the option of not having the international draft start until 2024 to work out the kinks. The players are just being unreasonable at this point.

[Axman59]

At the end of the day it's a complicated and significant change, not something you want to be considering at the last second.

 

It was not a last second add on by the owners. It was part of the agreement all along. It's just now the MLBPA objected to it.

 

I'm an attorney and I've been part of mediations before where the parties feel like they are very close to a deal and then one party objects to something at the last minute that has previously been agreed to. Then all hell breaks loose and things go downhill quickly. It's not pretty.

[torts]

quote="owbc"]

Not sure where this question fits best

 

In layman’s terms … WHY?

 

I don’t understand why an international draft is a bad idea

 

Because it benefits the owners financially and they are using it as a bargaining position to get what they want. You also have former international signees who want the system to stay because it brings a lot of money to their country and communities regardless of how well those players perform. These 16 year olds get their bonus straight up which means more people benefit within their country. A draft will suppress that influx of cash and put a cap on earnings for the vast majority since it will have hard slotted bonuses. The top prospects will still get their millions, but those players towards the middle and bottom will be phased out of their life changing money comparatively. A 16 year old with a $100k bonus has changed the trajectory of their whole family in the Dominican Republic, et al whereas MLB teams throw that around pretty easily to hopefully hit on a gem. A draft will limit that for the vast majority of players.

 

I guess I don't know where the draft slots would fall, but only seven of the players the Brewers signed in the most recent signing period got $100,000 or more. Most got $10,000. In contrast, only one of the draft picks the Brewers signed out of I believe 14 or 15 got less than $100,000.

 

At the end of the day it's a complicated and significant change, not something you want to be considering at the last second. Plus there were strong objections (or at least strong concerns) from many Dominican players. It's a shame because it looked like we might have been able to get a deal prior to this becoming the big point of contention.

 

I get it, these guys sign as teenagers. Could they draft teenagers? They also lose all freedom to sign with who shows interest in developing from their country/region.

[jerichoholicninja]

It's never made sense that US and Canadian players have to finish high school or whatever the rules are and then go through the draft while 16 year old kids from other countries are free agents to the highest bidder. You want to have a different system for guys that played professionally in Cuba or Japan sure but everyone else should enter the league the same way.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Not sure where this question fits best

 

In layman’s terms … WHY?

 

I don’t understand why an international draft is a bad idea

 

Because it benefits the owners financially and they are using it as a bargaining position to get what they want. You also have former international signees who want the system to stay because it brings a lot of money to their country and communities regardless of how well those players perform. These 16 year olds get their bonus straight up which means more people benefit within their country. A draft will suppress that influx of cash and put a cap on earnings for the vast majority since it will have hard slotted bonuses. The top prospects will still get their millions, but those players towards the middle and bottom will be phased out of their life changing money comparatively. A 16 year old with a $100k bonus has changed the trajectory of their whole family in the Dominican Republic, et al whereas MLB teams throw that around pretty easily to hopefully hit on a gem. A draft will limit that for the vast majority of players.

This pretty much sums it up, for good and bad.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's never made sense that US and Canadian players have to finish high school or whatever the rules are and then go through the draft while 16 year old kids from other countries are free agents to the highest bidder. You want to have a different system for guys that played professionally in Cuba or Japan sure but everyone else should enter the league the same way.

Or Korea. Or the various leagues around the world that play professionally.

 

Those exceptions you listed are kinda how we got into this weird place at all. Baseball is closer to soccer in its organic growth than basketball or American football, which have very clean and easy draft rules because of how the sport originated and matured in a single country.

[SomewhereInTime]

It's never made sense that US and Canadian players have to finish high school or whatever the rules are and then go through the draft while 16 year old kids from other countries are free agents to the highest bidder. You want to have a different system for guys that played professionally in Cuba or Japan sure but everyone else should enter the league the same way.

 

It's also a reason why it's not worth it to bother signing 16 year olds. Takes way too many years to develop and they'll hit year 6 and minor league free agency in their early 20s. If you get a great one sure that's fine, but mostly they just litter the bullpens and benches of rookie league teams and appleton/carolina. We've had what? Like 3 of them actually make it from our DSL to the majors.

 

The system needs to be overhauled and nobody under 18 should be on an affiliated roster.

[Axman59]

A draft will suppress that influx of cash and put a cap on earnings for the vast majority since it will have hard slotted bonuses. The top prospects will still get their millions, but those players towards the middle and bottom will be phased out of their life changing money comparatively.

 

The owners proposal with an international draft would allow more spending for the league as a whole as compared to what is allowed now. The slotting system would flatten the amount of money the top end talent gets, but it will not decrease the amount of money flowing into countries like the DR. And the top end talent still will make life changing money.

 

And people need to stop saying this came up in the last minute. An international draft has been proposed by the owners in every labor negotiation since 2002 and it has been part of the 2021-22 negotiations since the first proposal!!

[rickh150]

An all inclusive draft would help small markets, big time. Always disliked the idea of Yankees paying gobs of money on international scene to multitudes of kids banking that a few would help them in the long run. And really, an unfair process. Make it One draft and let all have a fair shot at attaining all players. If you like the player enough and he hasn’t been drafted by any other MLB team, the big markets could still sign them after the draft, but this way teams like the Brewers would not have play second fiddle consistently for major international talent.

[SoCalBrewfan]

From an article on MLBTR, it seemed to me that the elimination of draft pick compensation had been tentatively agreed to, but that the league then tied it to the international draft, which the players had opposed all along. When this was resisted, the league decided unilaterally that this was the hill the process would die on? It doesn't seem like this is negotiation in good faith, but I am less certain than some posters above that the blame is all on the players.

 

MLB tabled all discussions on other matters beyond that decision, presenting the MLBPA with an ultimatum — choose one of those courses of action or break off negotiations, which would result in another week’s worth of game cancelations.

 

This is a weird negotiation because both sides seem to be playing to the fans and media...what they hope to do with the points they score in this way I cannot fathom. I guess there is hope that the pressure will be on one side or the other to settle lest fans blame them for the stoppage. I suspect that the effect is more a pox on both your houses effect.

[KeithStone53151]

From an article on MLBTR, it seemed to me that the elimination of draft pick compensation had been tentatively agreed to, but that the league then tied it to the international draft, which the players had opposed all along. When this was resisted, the league decided unilaterally that this was the hill the process would die on?

 

From what I read, I thought this was agreed to as well. A number of players have said the owners don't care about losing some games in April to get a better deal because they don't make as much money on April games. This certainly doesn't help any argument against.

 

These 16 year olds get their bonus straight up which means more people benefit within their country. A draft will suppress that influx of cash and put a cap on earnings for the vast majority since it will have hard slotted bonuses. The top prospects will still get their millions, but those players towards the middle and bottom will be phased out of their life changing money comparatively. A 16 year old with a $100k bonus has changed the trajectory of their whole family in the Dominican Republic, et al whereas MLB teams throw that around pretty easily to hopefully hit on a gem. A draft will limit that for the vast majority of players.

 

I don't know that I agree with this. I thought looking at the slot bonuses that overall there would be a fair amount more money in an international draft than the current system. And if they players issue is with the middle bonuses, that seems like a relatively easy fix to shift the money around. The international draft problem isn't something that can have t's crossed and i's dotted in a matter of hours, but over 8 months if both sides actually work on it regularly...it should be pretty darn easy to sort out for a 2024 start date. I suspect the primary reason many current players that came up through that system don't want to change it, is change is an unknown and the system worked for them. Or, maybe whatever corrupt agent/trainer that helped get them a big signing bonus as a 16 year old is in their ear telling them to adamantly oppose it.

[Axman59]

From an article on MLBTR, it seemed to me that the elimination of draft pick compensation had been tentatively agreed to, but that the league then tied it to the international draft, which the players had opposed all along.

 

That's not what I understand to be the case. The problem is that I've heard from so many people (Joel Sherman, Ken Rosenthal, Evan Drellich, Jon Heyman, Tom Verducci, JP Morosi, et al.) I can't remember who said it. What I know for certain is that the owners didn't suddenly come up with the idea of an international draft at the last minute as that has been on the table from day 1.

[SoCalBrewfan]

Here's the MLBTR article, but at first glance it doesn't cite sources:

 

The MLBPA has continually maintained an unwillingness to implement an international draft, suggesting that players from Latin America are particularly opposed. However, the league’s offers to take the international draft off the table in exchange for the continued existence of the QO make clear that compensation for signing free agents was an equally important issue. The qualifying offer hasn’t garnered a ton of attention as a contentious problem throughout negotiations.

 

That’s in part because the league agreed early on to its removal before later tying that to the implementation of the draft.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/03/mlb-announces-postponement-of-games-through-april-14.html

[Axman59]

Here's the MLBTR article, but at first glance it doesn't cite sources:

 

The MLBPA has continually maintained an unwillingness to implement an international draft, suggesting that players from Latin America are particularly opposed. However, the league’s offers to take the international draft off the table in exchange for the continued existence of the QO make clear that compensation for signing free agents was an equally important issue. The qualifying offer hasn’t garnered a ton of attention as a contentious problem throughout negotiations.

 

That’s in part because the league agreed early on to its removal before later tying that to the implementation of the draft.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/03/mlb-announces-postponement-of-games-through-april-14.html

 

 

There's no doubt the MLBPA has opposed it for a long time as the owners have brought it up continually since 2002. What I don't know is if they opposed it during the more recent negotiations.

 

Personally, I think the MLBPA was OK with it until they very recently started getting blowback from Latin American players who appear not to really have a seat at the negotiations.

 

Based on the MLBPA offering to put QO's/draft pick compensation back on the table after this season if an agreement cannot be reached with MLB by November 15, 2022 on the international draft, it would appear to me they don't oppose the concept, but want to take a closer look at how this will impact the young players in places like the DR before it is signed into law so to speak.

[sveumrules]

Yeah, the owners have wanted an International Draft for some time, while the players have opposed it for just as long.

 

It's almost like giving a take it or leave it ultimatum tied to a complicated issue that's been contentious for 20 years now was doomed to fail from the outset.

[JosephC]

[Or, maybe whatever corrupt agent/trainer that helped get them a big signing bonus as a 16 year old is in their ear telling them to adamantly oppose it.

 

It's very reasonable to think that the "advisors" are the ones who greatly oppose this.

 

The numbers I've seen indicate that the top 600 bonuses in the last normal period prior to covid totaled 163.9 million. That number was unlikely to balloon because we are working under a pool system where each team has a cap. In the first draft of a new draft system, the bonuses for the top 600 picks would be 180.5 million.

 

I'm assuming Japanese players would not be included in this since most of them tend to be older already-professional players. If they were to be included, IMO they are the only people who would really lose out in this deal.

 

Other than the advisors who have really benefitted from the kickback system that has been in place for so many years, which makes me think they are the ones (though players) who are really pushing back against this idea.

 

My only concern about this is transparency in the draft order. I don't like lottery systems because, frankly, it seems pretty obvious that the NBA has fixed a couple of them. But if they go with this 6 "pod" rotation, and if the order within the 6 pods is based strictly on the team's records, then I don't have an issue with this change.

[patrickgpe]

take it for what its worth

 

seems like they just punted the football

[Axman59]

take it for what its worth

 

seems like they just punted the football

 

That's good news.

[homer]

Another question is why do the owners want it:

 

 

"The International Draft would give MLB cover from anti-trust lawsuits, because collective bargaining agreements are an exemption from anti-trust law. MLB is desperate to protect its Anti-Trust Exemption and would do anything to keep these lawsuits out of the scrutiny of the

courts. By putting an International Draft into the CBA, it gets the cases dismissed before they are addressed on the merits.

But, maybe, just maybe Congress will take it away and solve this problem. Just don't count on it to happen."

[KeithStone53151]

take it for what its worth

 

seems like they just punted the football

 

That's good news.

 

It's annoying that coming up with this took more than an hour. This really should have taken like 5 minutes, yet MLB and players punted away a weeks worth of revenue and made it take a full day.