2022 Winter Olympics

[MrTPlush]

The girl redeeming herself from 2006 to grab the gold in the snowboard race was a nice story after the depressing Shiffrin ordeal.

[homer]

The girl redeeming herself from 2006 to grab the gold in the snowboard race was a nice story after the depressing Shiffrin ordeal.

 

without looking....is she the one who did the little trick near the finish line and then lost the lead?

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

The girl redeeming herself from 2006 to grab the gold in the snowboard race was a nice story after the depressing Shiffrin ordeal.

 

And the first US gold of the games too.

 

I remember watching that Turino race on tape delay, knowing the result, and thinking, "Wait...how does she not win?!?"

 

It has to feel really good to suddenly become well-known for overcoming that loss instead of for letting off the gas just enough to cost yourself a gold medal.

[thebruce44]

I've always thought the Winter Olympics were the more viewer-friendly events to broadcast, because there are fewer events and most of them are people hurtling down mountains and ice tracks at insane speeds or doing crazy acrobatics on ice skates.

I watch live sports. It's what I do. I don't like the Winter Games. My dislike stems from the fact that rarely do competitors face off. Watching anonymous, helmeted competitors do near-identical runs down a mountain, bobsled track, or luge track, is just not fun for me. Give me track and field where the first person to the tape gets the gold. Now, side by side downhill? Sign me up to watch! But when the gold-winning time is 1:41.35, and the pathetic loser who takes silver lolligags across the line .077 seconds later, it's not compelling for me as a viewer. Give me hockey, speed skating, curling, where your performance has an effect on an opponent.

 

In case not obvious, the "pathetic loser" comment is a joke. These people train so hard and lose by the equivalent of a hiccup.

 

To each their own. Your analysis of alpine racing as near-identical runs down a mountain is analogous to my wife being bored by a 0-1 baseball score because "nothing is happening."

[thebruce44]

I've always found the winter games particularly snoozy. It always sort of felt like a bunch of things that are all the same with a minor variation. There are only so many ways I can care about going down a slope.

 

I still don't understand the difference between Super G and Downhill. I think I figured it out once and it didn't stick. Evidently not a big enough deal for me to remember. I do like watching it though.

 

They need to cut back on the amount of different events with people doing flips and racing at the same time. I like the artistic flip/skill type events...and I like the racing events. Mixing the two seems weird.

 

The easiest way to explain it is to say that each race is the next step on the spectrum of vertical drop and frequency of gates. Slalom - Giant Slalom (GS) - Super Giant Slalom (Super G) - Downhill.

 

Specifically between Super G and Downhill, there is a large difference in speeds achieved, force on the skiers legs in turns, and the amount of air they will catch on rollovers. On a downhill course, the skier wants to stay tucked as much as possible, hold a clean edge in early turns (spray as little snow as possible) to set themselves up for longer straight/tucked runs, and to minimize time in the air. In Super G, they may be knocking over gates trying to get a tight line, there is going to be less time in the air, and less emphasis on carrying speed to the longer straight runs. A lighter/smaller, more technical skier can be more successful as you go down the spectrum from downhill to slalom.

 

There are also differences in what the skiers are allowed to do to prep for the course and the number of runs. I am not sure on the specifics, but it changes the strategy.

[Fear The Chorizo]

NBC cursing out loud as Shiffrin skis out again.

 

I feel for her because she's an incredible athlete, but US skiers seem to have a poor hype to impact ratio fairly often. Hope she can rebound for her final three events. Though it looks like she might be hurt?

 

The bronze medal from Jessie Diggins was cool. The sprint is a fun event in Nordic.

 

Added hype/pressure to perform isn't anything new in terms of Olympic buildup - and the US isn't even close to being among the countries who raise expectations and pressure on their own athletes the most. With what happened in Tokyo during last summer's Olympics with Simone Biles and what appears to be happening with Shiffrin, I think there's a big impact on not having family/close friend support systems there in person for athletes to lean on if things don't go according to plan and negativity quickly snowballs mentally. Skiing events in particular, oftentimes the order of the racers, ski wax choice, and changing snow conditions play a huge role in who actually medals in those events.

[CheezWizHed]

The easiest way to explain it is to say that each race is the next step on the spectrum of vertical drop and frequency of gates. Slalom - Giant Slalom (GS) - Super Giant Slalom (Super G) - Downhill.

 

Specifically between Super G and Downhill, there is a large difference in speeds achieved, force on the skiers legs in turns, and the amount of air they will catch on rollovers. On a downhill course, the skier wants to stay tucked as much as possible, hold a clean edge in early turns (spray as little snow as possible) to set themselves up for longer straight/tucked runs, and to minimize time in the air. In Super G, they may be knocking over gates trying to get a tight line, there is going to be less time in the air, and less emphasis on carrying speed to the longer straight runs. A lighter/smaller, more technical skier can be more successful as you go down the spectrum from downhill to slalom.

 

There are also differences in what the skiers are allowed to do to prep for the course and the number of runs. I am not sure on the specifics, but it changes the strategy.

 

Thanks, but my point was that the general public probably doesn't matter nor care (I'll forget what you told me by the next time I end up watching it). I enjoy watching it, but to me (the casual observer), it is a lot of the "same" between the various races.

 

Its almost like if they played basketball on a US court, then a Euro court, and 3on3 half-court. Each would have their nuances that make more difference to the player than it does the casual spectator.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The easiest way to explain it is to say that each race is the next step on the spectrum of vertical drop and frequency of gates. Slalom - Giant Slalom (GS) - Super Giant Slalom (Super G) - Downhill.

 

Specifically between Super G and Downhill, there is a large difference in speeds achieved, force on the skiers legs in turns, and the amount of air they will catch on rollovers. On a downhill course, the skier wants to stay tucked as much as possible, hold a clean edge in early turns (spray as little snow as possible) to set themselves up for longer straight/tucked runs, and to minimize time in the air. In Super G, they may be knocking over gates trying to get a tight line, there is going to be less time in the air, and less emphasis on carrying speed to the longer straight runs. A lighter/smaller, more technical skier can be more successful as you go down the spectrum from downhill to slalom.

 

There are also differences in what the skiers are allowed to do to prep for the course and the number of runs. I am not sure on the specifics, but it changes the strategy.

 

Thanks, but my point was that the general public probably doesn't matter nor care (I'll forget what you told me by the next time I end up watching it). I enjoy watching it, but to me (the casual observer), it is a lot of the "same" between the various races.

 

Its almost like if they played basketball on a US court, then a Euro court, and 3on3 half-court. Each would have their nuances that make more difference to the player than it does the casual spectator.

 

I think the more accurate analogy would be swimming, not basketball - everyone's in the same pool, but different swimmers excel in different strokes and frequently different distances based on their endurance and body type. The once-in-a-generation swimmers are the ones who are considered world class in multiple strokes and distances. Same goes for skiers who are considered legit medal contenders across multiple events. Or take track - downhill probably most resembles the 100 yard dash where it's simply brute speed, Super G would be the 200, G slalom would be the 1,500 meters, and slalom would be a 400 M hurdle event. On the world stage, you rarely see a track athlete even compete in more than 2 of those events at a level where they have medal aspirations.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

NBC cursing out loud as Shiffrin skis out again.

 

I feel for her because she's an incredible athlete, but US skiers seem to have a poor hype to impact ratio fairly often. Hope she can rebound for her final three events. Though it looks like she might be hurt?

 

The bronze medal from Jessie Diggins was cool. The sprint is a fun event in Nordic.

 

Added hype/pressure to perform isn't anything new in terms of Olympic buildup - and the US isn't even close to being among the countries who raise expectations and pressure on their own athletes the most. With what happened in Tokyo during last summer's Olympics with Simone Biles and what appears to be happening with Shiffrin, I think there's a big impact on not having family/close friend support systems there in person for athletes to lean on if things don't go according to plan and negativity quickly snowballs mentally. Skiing events in particular, oftentimes the order of the racers, ski wax choice, and changing snow conditions play a huge role in who actually medals in those events.

 

This is very insightful. Thanks. I agree. I thought of Biles too.

[thebruce44]

The easiest way to explain it is to say that each race is the next step on the spectrum of vertical drop and frequency of gates. Slalom - Giant Slalom (GS) - Super Giant Slalom (Super G) - Downhill.

 

Specifically between Super G and Downhill, there is a large difference in speeds achieved, force on the skiers legs in turns, and the amount of air they will catch on rollovers. On a downhill course, the skier wants to stay tucked as much as possible, hold a clean edge in early turns (spray as little snow as possible) to set themselves up for longer straight/tucked runs, and to minimize time in the air. In Super G, they may be knocking over gates trying to get a tight line, there is going to be less time in the air, and less emphasis on carrying speed to the longer straight runs. A lighter/smaller, more technical skier can be more successful as you go down the spectrum from downhill to slalom.

 

There are also differences in what the skiers are allowed to do to prep for the course and the number of runs. I am not sure on the specifics, but it changes the strategy.

 

Thanks, but my point was that the general public probably doesn't matter nor care (I'll forget what you told me by the next time I end up watching it). I enjoy watching it, but to me (the casual observer), it is a lot of the "same" between the various races.

 

Its almost like if they played basketball on a US court, then a Euro court, and 3on3 half-court. Each would have their nuances that make more difference to the player than it does the casual spectator.

 

NBC could certainly do a better job of explaining the sport at the start of the event, but, you know, there isn't enough time because one athlete got a new cat last year and we need to be told that story through a series of interviews.

[nodakfan17]

I was really happy for Lindsey Jacobellis. We’re roughly the same age. I’d hate for history to judge me solely by the things I did or said at age 20. 16 years between medals. Wow. Neat story.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Swimming works because it is very short and they are all in the pool at the same time. It is really easy to be exciting because you can see how close together everybody is. It is also an activity most people have at least some experience with. A bunch of people going down the same track separately is just not that great to watch. Imagine a 100m where each guy does the 100m separately.

 

You can tweak the snowy hill a bit or throw more stuff on it but at some point it just all feels the same to a casual observer (me).

[MrTPlush]

The end of cross country skiing races is oddly more intense than you would expect.

 

The announcers are garbage though....so bad. I gotta be honestly, despite 30 minutes of Shiffrin coverage, I still wasn't 100% sure what exactly happened. I think I do from watching it that event a bunch...but the announcers don't explain it. "She missed a gate" doesn't quite make sense to most people watching. Because that "gate" is a stick.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Swimming works because it is very short and they are all in the pool at the same time. It is really easy to be exciting because you can see how close together everybody is. It is also an activity most people have at least some experience with. A bunch of people going down the same track separately is just not that great to watch. Imagine a 100m where each guy does the 100m separately.

 

You can tweak the snowy hill a bit or throw more stuff on it but at some point it just all feels the same to a casual observer (me).

 

The NFL combine is must watch TV for many football fans - and that event's biggest draw is watching guys in underwear run 40 yards by themselves and 2 tenths of a second often separates 1st round talent from 3rd day draftees at certain position groupings.

 

To each his or her own - but navigating the course itself in ski races IMO is more entertaining to watch than 8 people swimming or running at the same time in a pool or on a track to see who does it the fastest. Seeing the effect of skiers taking slightly different lines or approaches to parts of the course is pretty cool when they layer leaders' or other competitors' lines through various splits. If you need to see snow events that actively have people racing together, there are various ski/snowboard cross events and cross country skiing where people are racing at the same time - and those are typically very cool to watch. Alpine skiing/bobsled/luge are just not events where you line up a bunch of people at the same time and send them racing down it for safety reasons. For those events, the uniqueness of the course and sheer speed factors are the entertainment.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The end of cross country skiing races is oddly more intense than you would expect.

 

The announcers are garbage though....so bad. I gotta be honestly, despite 30 minutes of Shiffrin coverage, I still wasn't 100% sure what exactly happened. I think I do from watching it that event a bunch...but the announcers don't explain it. "She missed a gate" doesn't quite make sense to most people watching. Because that "gate" is a stick.

 

There are two sticks (gates) at each point in the course that the skier has to go between to stay on the course - in events like slalom, skiers often take the line that stays on the inside turn of each set of gates so they minimize the actual distance they need to ski down the course and in turn have a faster time. What Shiffrin did was take too aggressive and tight a line at one of the first couple gates without carving out a tight turn to set herself up for the next gate - that resulted in her slipping a bit where the course layout required a carved turn to make it through the next couple gates that were staggered. Right after slipping she barely got through the very next gate but her line was so far out of whack she couldn't recover to get between the next pair of blue sticks and skied out of bounds. The fact it happened only a couple gates into the run is what's crazy for a world class skier - it'd be like a Formula 1 driver running straight into a wall on the 1st turn of a track in a solo qualifying run.

 

In slalom, the gates are just sticks because there are so many in tight quarters and the racers like to punch them down to clear them from their torso because their best lines are often running the skis right next to them.

[MrTPlush]

The winter Olympics are soooooo confusing, for most I am sure. I watch it, but it is incredibly hard to follow most events. You watch people do runs and it may hold, may not. So often guy sit in first place and have zero shot of winning. Cross country skiing has penalties and extra laps in many times. One race some people start 4 minutes back depending on how they jumping earlier.

 

Swimming and track races are not only quick, but pretty obvious what is going on. Winter Olympics just doesn't have a simple H2H concept.

[Fear The Chorizo]

keep in mind that swimming and track races often have a series of qualifying heats that cloud the actual picture of which competitors reach a final race.

 

A lot of times the events that have multiple runs included for the overall cumulative time (bobsled/luge events have 4, I believe) will stagger each round of competitors starting with the slowest time and ending with the best from the previous round. Skiing also has multiple runs for many of their racing events aside from downhill and super G. It's quite common for the 1st competitor through a course and posting the best time to get knocked down the rankings - particularly when an event includes cumulative time for multiple runs and the racer order of each run starts with the slowest prior time. If a ski event with two runs takes the top 32 skiers after the 1st run to determine who medals, the 2nd run will started with the 32nd fastest time and and finish with the fastest time from the 1st run - so even if the 32nd best time from run #1 blisters the course for their 2nd run, their cumulative time is incredibly unlikely to medal.

 

Cross country skiing penalties are often related to impeding a competitor - track and swimming have the same sort of penalties but those typically wind up as a straight DQ. Biatholon events add extra laps/skiing or penalty times for competitors who miss targets in their shooting rounds.

 

There are plenty of H2H concept events in the Winter Olympics if you look for them - but they also have a ton of events where everyone is racing the course for the fastest time or doing crazy tricks to maximize a judges score.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Swimming works because it is very short and they are all in the pool at the same time. It is really easy to be exciting because you can see how close together everybody is. It is also an activity most people have at least some experience with. A bunch of people going down the same track separately is just not that great to watch. Imagine a 100m where each guy does the 100m separately.

 

You can tweak the snowy hill a bit or throw more stuff on it but at some point it just all feels the same to a casual observer (me).

 

The NFL combine is must watch TV for many football fans - and that event's biggest draw is watching guys in underwear run 40 yards by themselves and 2 tenths of a second often separates 1st round talent from 3rd day draftees at certain position groupings.

 

To each his or her own - but navigating the course itself in ski races IMO is more entertaining to watch than 8 people swimming or running at the same time in a pool or on a track to see who does it the fastest. Seeing the effect of skiers taking slightly different lines or approaches to parts of the course is pretty cool when they layer leaders' or other competitors' lines through various splits. If you need to see snow events that actively have people racing together, there are various ski/snowboard cross events and cross country skiing where people are racing at the same time - and those are typically very cool to watch. Alpine skiing/bobsled/luge are just not events where you line up a bunch of people at the same time and send them racing down it for safety reasons. For those events, the uniqueness of the course and sheer speed factors are the entertainment.

 

Well yeah, but folks are watching that because the guys will be on their favorite teams and football is king. It's not really a standalone event.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Ultimately it just depends what you follow and grew up with in terms of sports - alpine and snowsport events are king in many of the European countries with mountains, which is why the Winter Olympics exist in any capacity at all.

[Jimbo]

So far a third in not really any inspiring moments so far. Esther Ledecka from 2018 fame skied "today" but didn't medal.

 

Alex Cavallini was in goal the other night and said she played at Wisconsin but didn't remember her. That's because its her married name and went by Alex Rigsby.

 

From previous posts:

Downhill and Super-G are "speed" events. Giant Slalom and Slalom are technical events. Shiffrin is a technical racer, Vonn was a speed racer.

I believe during World Cup events, Perino is the analyst for NBC, but Leggity is doing the commentary for the Olympics.

Talk about American skiers not living up to the hype - what year was it the team was accused of partying > competing and Street told Mancuso to ditch her tierra?

 

I saw Jacobellis win early yesterday, but didn't post to be a spoiler. Good for her, sixteen years is a long time for redemption. But her lack of remorse in 2006 ("that's how we roll") and not getting it done in 2010, I kinda lost interest in her.

 

A guy I worked with years ago was old school and preferred only H2H and couldn't understand the concept of racing against the clock. To each their own. The sprint triathlons I do are all time-trialed or waved and it's not a big deal.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I question if sometimes the hype overstates how easy it is to win a lot of skiing medals. I remember Bode Miller's career being vaguely underwhelming given the hype and yet I looked yesterday and he is tied for second all-time among Olympic skiers in total medals won. The aforementioned Mancuso is tied for fifth among women. Michael Phelps won as many medals at one Olympics as the all time leader in skiing medals, Kjetil André Aamodt, won in his entire career.

[LouisEly]

Mancuso's tiara was a good luck charm that her coach gave her. It's amazing what she was able to do between hip dysplasia, a bone spur (which, once it was removed, launched her greatest period of success), and back problems. And then the snafu in Vancouver when they started her before Vonn finished her run and Vonn crashed, causing Mancuso to stop her run halfway.

[nodakfan17]

The Nick Baumgartner / Lindsey Jacobellis gold medal win in Team Snowboardcross might be my favorite story of these Olympics.

 

Baumgartner is from Iron River, Michigan which is right on the Wisconsin / UP border. It’s 30 minutes from some land my parents own in Forest County. He’s 40. He has a son who was the Michigan HS 300m IM hurdles champion.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Erin Jackson's live gold medal was something this morning. A fun race, and a great story.

[jerichoholicninja]

The Nick Baumgartner / Lindsey Jacobellis gold medal win in Team Snowboardcross might be my favorite story of these Olympics.

 

Baumgartner is from Iron River, Michigan which is right on the Wisconsin / UP border. It’s 30 minutes from some land my parents own in Forest County. He’s 40. He has a son who was the Michigan HS 300m IM hurdles champion.

 

Is Team Snowboardcross a real thing or just something they made up for the olympics? Seems like most of the winter sports that have been added the last few games are just taking a sport they already had and adding a minor twist to it.