When Does The Lockout End? Answer: March 10th, 2022

[TURBO]

...which is the stupidest thing ever as the only ones who suffer are the fans.

 

Like either side really cares about the fans...

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The two sides are engaged in a game of high-stakes chicken, and baseball fans are tied to the grill of the car. It's the wealthy versus the ultra-wealthy. Greed versus greed.

 

Many owners lose money on games played in April and May, so I'm sure they have no problem postponing the start of the season to let this drag on, when in reality they could likely iron out their differences this week.

[markedman5]

For those with access………Rosenthal explains why they aren’t close.

 

https://theathletic.com/3103051/2022/01/31/with-spring-training-likely-to-be-delayed-heres-why-mlb-and-the-players-union-are-still-far-apart/?source=user_shared_article

[wntrtxn21]

...which is the stupidest thing ever as the only ones who suffer are the fans.

 

Like either side really cares about the fans...

 

That small sentence sums it up perfectly. Fans aren't even a secondary thought for either side.

[markedman5]

Meeting again tomorrow

 

[TheEndless7]

...which is the stupidest thing ever as the only ones who suffer are the fans.

 

Like either side really cares about the fans...

 

That small sentence sums it up perfectly. Fans aren't even a secondary thought for either side.

 

When it's all said and done three things will be true.

 

1. The Owners will make more Money

2. The Players will make more Money

3. The Fans will pay more Money.

Edited February 1, 2022 by TheEndless7

[TURBO]

^ spot on.

[wildcat2237]

Well, here we are, February 1.

 

We are about 2 weeks from when pitchers and catchers should report and about 4 weeks from when spring training should begin.

 

I think it is safe to say that spring training will not likely be starting on time.

 

If they cannot get things hammered out in the next 3.5 weeks I think it is doubtful the season starts on time.

[markedman5]

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Team owners obviously don't like or care about their fans. Players obviously don't appreciate their fans. Why should we as fans continue throwing money at these guys?

[wildcat2237]

Why should we as fans continue throwing money at these guys?

 

I think about that just about every year. I find myself going to fewer games and becoming less interested. This just adds to that feeling.

[TURBO]

Team owners obviously don't like or care about their fans. Players obviously don't appreciate their fans. Why should we as fans continue throwing money at these guys?

 

I go to fewer games than ever before.

 

I still tune into every game, but going live, in person, is no longer a priority.

 

Way too pricey, then add the 3 hour round trip drive, the inconsiderate fans who can't stay in their seats, the parking, and everything else, I'd just rather watch from the comfort of my own couch.

 

Cheap beer, cheap snacks, no driving...

 

I no longer feel like pro sports appreciates the fans and all the cash we spend hand over fist at their stadiums.

[Jopal78]

Team owners obviously don't like or care about their fans. Players obviously don't appreciate their fans. Why should we as fans continue throwing money at these guys?

 

I go to fewer games than ever before.

 

I still tune into every game, but going live, in person, is no longer a priority.

 

Way too pricey, then add the 3 hour round trip drive, the inconsiderate fans who can't stay in their seats, the parking, and everything else, I'd just rather watch from the comfort of my own couch.

 

Cheap beer, cheap snacks, no driving...

 

I no longer feel like pro sports appreciates the fans and all the cash we spend hand over fist at their stadiums.

 

Broadcast rights are the real money makers for teams now, so whether you go to the games in person or pay to watch them on TV you're still buying their product.

 

None of the MLB teams are "not for profit" corporations, so why can anyone blame them for wanting to keep as much of the "pie" for themselves as possible. Any business whether it sells baseball games, cars, computers, widgets wants to keep labor costs as low as they can.

 

Likewise, despite the mythology spewed by the networks and hero worship. The athletes aren't playing for free, they're playing for money. Nobody should blame them in a capitalist system for trying to get as much of the "pie" for themselves as possible.

 

Unless the purchasers of their product send a message that they no longer want to go to games, watch games, listen to games etc. the revenues keep going up and form the basis of the fight between the labor and the producer of the product. It's not unique to baseball it happens every day in America.

[Opening Day]

Team owners obviously don't like or care about their fans. Players obviously don't appreciate their fans. Why should we as fans continue throwing money at these guys?

 

I go to fewer games than ever before.

 

I still tune into every game, but going live, in person, is no longer a priority.

 

Way too pricey, then add the 3 hour round trip drive, the inconsiderate fans who can't stay in their seats, the parking, and everything else, I'd just rather watch from the comfort of my own couch.

 

Cheap beer, cheap snacks, no driving...

 

I no longer feel like pro sports appreciates the fans and all the cash we spend hand over fist at their stadiums.

 

Broadcast rights are the real money makers for teams now, so whether you go to the games in person or pay to watch them on TV you're still buying their product.

 

None of the MLB teams are "not for profit" corporations, so why can anyone blame them for wanting to keep as much of the "pie" for themselves as possible. Any business whether it sells baseball games, cars, computers, widgets wants to keep labor costs as low as they can.

 

Likewise, despite the mythology spewed by the networks and hero worship. The athletes aren't playing for free, they're playing for money. Nobody should blame them in a capitalist system for trying to get as much of the "pie" for themselves as possible.

 

Unless the purchasers of their product send a message that they no longer want to go to games, watch games, listen to games etc. the revenues keep going up and form the basis of the fight between the labor and the producer of the product. It's not unique to baseball it happens every day in America.

I think the point is they have a set season. Their loyal customer base has been promised a set season. They refuse to put an honest effort into getting a deal done in time to provide their loyal customers with the promised season. And this happens just about every time they need a new deal. Also, while the TV money is the main source, on a per capita basis they make a ton more money if you go in person. If they got an extra 35,000 tv viewers, but had 0 people attending, it would make a difference. Not that I’m advocating that, to each their own.

It is in many ways unique to sports in America. How many other huge name brands will be completely unavailable to purchase anywhere because they waited too long to negotiate with labor? I’m sure there are examples, but not at the frequency of baseball.

[Jopal78]

I think the point is they have a set season. Their loyal customer base has been promised a set season. They refuse to put an honest effort into getting a deal done in time to provide their loyal customers with the promised season. And this happens just about every time they need a new deal. Also, while the TV money is the main source, on a per capita basis they make a ton more money if you go in person. If they got an extra 35,000 tv viewers, but had 0 people attending, it would make a difference. Not that I’m advocating that, to each their own.

It is in many ways unique to sports in America. How many other huge name brands will be completely unavailable to purchase anywhere because they waited too long to negotiate with labor? I’m sure there are examples, but not at the frequency of baseball.

 

Before the "lockout" baseball in fact had the longest period of labor peace amongst all the major American professional sports leagues. As for a work stoppage, that's usually how it goes with well organized and powerful unions ( eg. The Chicago Teachers Union goes on strike every time their contract expires). It's really irrelevant that the owners instituted a "lock out" because without a Collective Bargaining Agreement in place the players would have gone out on strike before pitchers and catchers were due to report anyways.

 

It is the same as any other unionized capitalist industry: labor argues they're not being treated fairly and just want what is fair (a bigger slice of the pie), and the Operators argue labor already has a great situation and an even bigger slice of pie would hardly leave any pie for themselves.

[MrTPlush]

Why should we as fans continue throwing money at these guys?

 

I think about that just about every year. I find myself going to fewer games and becoming less interested. This just adds to that feeling.

 

I tuned out of baseball right after the season because of the lock out coming. I honestly have forgotten about baseball for the most part for months now. I just now pondered, who are the Top 10 free agents this offseason? Couldn't think of one. Now writing this I pondered, who did we sign before this lockout? I remember doing something and getting someone. Oh yah...we dumped that bum JBJ. That is as much as I can remember. Don't ask me what we got in return, I just remember laughing at whatever team it was wanting him.

 

Just when I think baseball can't self-implode any more they do this garbage. This is the third year in a row you can't even look forward to baseball starting.

 

2020 - COVID and their drama trying to figure out to even play.

2021 - Baseball returns, but with frustrating COVID rules and going to a game was more aggravating than fun

2022 - Lockout

 

And then being a SSH. All that does it tick me off more with all the decisions they do for tickets and other SSH garbage.

[Jopal78]

 

I tuned out of baseball right after the season because of the lock out coming. I honestly have forgotten about baseball for the most part for months now. I just now pondered, who are the Top 10 free agents this offseason? Couldn't think of one. Now writing this I pondered, who did we sign before this lockout? I remember doing something and getting someone. Oh yah...we dumped that bum JBJ. That is as much as I can remember. Don't ask me what we got in return, I just remember laughing at whatever team it was wanting him.

 

Just when I think baseball can't self-implode any more they do this garbage. This is the third year in a row you can't even look forward to baseball starting.

 

2020 - COVID and their drama trying to figure out to even play.

2021 - Baseball returns, but with frustrating COVID rules and going to a game was more aggravating than fun

2022 - Lockout

 

And then being a SSH. All that does it tick me off more with all the decisions they do for tickets and other SSH garbage.

 

But both sides know fans who say they "don't care" or or don't want to go to as many games, are still likely to consume their product one way or another once the season eventually starts. That is why the broadcast contracts are already worth billions and keep going up and up.

 

Maybe if the Corporations who write off the luxury suite leases as "entertainment" on their taxes all abandoned their leases it would be significant; but Joe Lunchpail watching the games at home as opposed to in the Loge section in today's world doesn't mean too much to MLB.

[torts]

I dont understand why anyone thinks these negotiations would consider the fans. The union is there to represent the interests of the players, and that is it. MLB is just the corporation looking to maintain their profit margins with give/takes.

[Roderick]

I dont understand why anyone thinks these negotiations would consider the fans. The union is there to represent the interests of the players, and that is it. MLB is just the corporation looking to maintain their profit margins with give/takes.

 

Because fans are the customer. Example, if you were making widgets and your factory stopped making them because of a labor impasse. Shouldn't mgmt and labor keep in mind that ABC Company that buys all of their widgets may start buying some widgets from a competitor if the impasse lasts too long? At least smart people would.

 

Heck, ABC Company may end up switching to the pro bowler tour or something.

[Thurston Fluff]

I dont understand why anyone thinks these negotiations would consider the fans. The union is there to represent the interests of the players, and that is it. MLB is just the corporation looking to maintain their profit margins with give/takes.

 

Because fans are the customer. Example, if you were making widgets and your factory stopped making them because of a labor impasse. Shouldn't mgmt and labor keep in mind that ABC Company that buys all of their widgets may start buying some widgets from a competitor if the impasse lasts too long? At least smart people would.

 

Heck, ABC Company may end up switching to the pro bowler tour or something.

 

The problem is baseball doesn't have to worry about competitors because they are exempted from antitrust laws. Every other company has to worry both about losing market share to competitors and customers finding other products. Baseball just has to worry about the latter.

[Jopal78]

I dont understand why anyone thinks these negotiations would consider the fans. The union is there to represent the interests of the players, and that is it. MLB is just the corporation looking to maintain their profit margins with give/takes.

 

Because fans are the customer. Example, if you were making widgets and your factory stopped making them because of a labor impasse. Shouldn't mgmt and labor keep in mind that ABC Company that buys all of their widgets may start buying some widgets from a competitor if the impasse lasts too long? At least smart people would.

 

Heck, ABC Company may end up switching to the pro bowler tour or something.

 

Baseball's popularity has been consistently waning for the last 50 years and yet it remains a multibillion dollar entertainment industry. I don't think they're too worried about the "fans" when they just sold their broadcast rights for a handsome raise. The consumers of their product have proven they will keep coming back for more regardless. People can grumble about not going to the games, but when spring rolls around they'll pick up a new hat or shirtzee for the newest player and dial up the games on TV all which pour money into their coffers.

[owbc]

The fans are an interesting topic. There is a limit to what the fans will tolerate. They learned the hard way in 1994 that the fans will not tolerate a strike in the middle of the season. There have been a couple other successful cases of fan revolts such as the McCourt situation in LA and the Marlins’ fire sale.

 

In this case, the owners have made progress scaling back salaries in recent years and they are certainly weighing the balance between loss of fan revenue and how much additional $ they can extract from the payroll. Anything disposable, such as scouts, minor leagues, etc has been given the business efficiency treatment.

 

The players haven’t helped by opposing rule changes that would make the game more entertaining and watchable for the fans. It’s obvious to anyone paying attention that the % of fans leaving before the end of the game has increased considerably in recent years, and the attendance decline is no secret. The warning signs are there.

 

Nobody knows where the line is when fans will say enough is enough. Other sports, especially the NFL, have certainly pushed closer to the line but haven’t found it yet. Losing games in April is unlikely to cross that line and I think everyone knows it.

[sveumrules]

The warning signs are there.

 

Looking at the attendance figures at BRef...

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml

 

The evolution of league attendance over the last 50 years or so has been something like...

 

1973-76 (29 to 31 million) 1977 (expansion, 38 million) 1978-80 (40-43 million) 1981 (strike, 26 million) 1982-86 (44-48 million) 1987-92 (52-57 million) 1993 (expansion, 70 million) 1994-95 (strike, 50 million) 1996-97 (60-63 million) 1998 (expansion, 70 million)

 

From 1999 until 2019 it mostly moves around the 70 million range. A little dip to 67 million in 2002-03, then a pretty steady climb from 73 to 79 million from 2004-08 before dropping back down around 73 million from 2009 until 2017.

 

But even before no fans in 2020 & limited attendance (45 million) in 2021, there was a dip down to 69.7 million in 2018 & then another lil fall off to 68.5 million in 2019.

 

Between whatever looming COVID trepidation might be out there this summer & the possibility games might be lost due to labor strife, plus whatever further fan disinterest that will possibly yield, MLB might not hit 70 million in attendance again until the next time they expand.

[torts]

Those numbers don't look like theres a fan problem for the owners. If the fan base has consistently been north of 65 million for decades... Then MLB will not consider the fans in negotiations. They will use fans as a sympathy chip, but this is all about how to limit the impact to their bottom line. The people who will get screwed by this are the employees of the franchises and stadiums as any increase expense to the team will be turned around for an offset in other areas.

[AZBrewCrew]

Why should we as fans continue throwing money at these guys?

 

I think about that just about every year. I find myself going to fewer games and becoming less interested. This just adds to that feeling.

 

My son just started doing travel ball..it’s much more enjoyable for me watching kids play “for love of the game”. If baseball comes back I’ll probably still throw Robbie Uecker on as background noise and follow the few players across the league I’m friends with but the days of dropping a ton of money on games is gone for me