When Does The Lockout End? Answer: March 10th, 2022

[markedman5]

Players going to blow this……and I’ll lose any sympathy I had for them if they do.

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Players going to blow this……and I’ll lose any sympathy I had for them if they do.

 

 

Well at least the bases will be bigger for more games that won't be played

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Players going to blow this……and I’ll lose any sympathy I had for them if they do.

 

 

Tide is seemingly starting to turn a bit pro owner as they have bent quite a bit over the last 36 hours. This seems like it is too close to the finish line to lose it over something as stupid as an international draft. Those players wouldn't even be in the union for several years ... so why would MLB need MLBPA approval to institute it?

[KeithStone53151]

With this international draft piece, they need to basically just agree they are going to have conversations and mutually agree on something starting no earlier than 2024. Get an agreement on dollars, but the "how it works" piece needs to be kicked down the road. And from my understanding, I don't think the disagreement involves the dollars at all, it's the "how it works" part. I honestly believe both sides want to do something about the corrupt system currently in place but there are no shortage of opinions on how to do that and resolving that in a matter of hours is wildly unrealistic.

 

It looks like MLBPA sent over a counter offer that moved maybe a smidgen from their previous offer. So while MLB moved almost halfway from the previous standstill, MLBPA closed the gap an additional couple percentage points. Not a great look honestly, and I'm generally in favor of the players here. I'm sure the most recent counter pissed off the owners a great deal and I suspect is going to result in multiple missed weeks and 150 games or less this season. That's my hot take/wildly uneducated guess.

[homer]

Seems like it's always "Hey we're close to a deal" in the evening, and then the next day its "Players won't budge"....which leads me to wonder if it's the owners leaking the "hey we're close to a deal" news to Heyman and Nightengale knowing full well they aren't close to a deal.

[KeithStone53151]

I'll add of the 2 most significant financial hurdles, the players will have much better luck getting an increase in the 0-3 pool than CBT. I love the idea of a guy like Burnes getting a big chunk of that bonus pool for having a monster season. If it's 70 million and based on something like WAR, he could easily get a few million bucks which is so much better for him than 600k obviously.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Seems like it's always "Hey we're close to a deal" in the evening, and then the next day its "Players won't budge"....which leads me to wonder if it's the owners leaking the "hey we're close to a deal" news to Heyman and Nightengale knowing full well they aren't close to a deal.

 

Both times this has happened now, MLB made larger concessions, I believe in the hopes of the MLBPA meeting them more toward the middle. MLBPA is holding much more firm, though, which has likely pissed the owners off. I think there is some credence to your idea that MLB is floating "we're close" flyers to their mouthpieces, but as this drags on, it is becoming apparent that the MLBPA shares some fault in this as well. Many feel MLBPA was taken to the woodshed during the last round of CBA negotiations, so now they are trying to make up for that by being stubborn. The only ones who lose in that scenario are the fans.

[KeithStone53151]

Figures, Bob Nightengale adjusted his figures and actually the players moved a lot closer than he noted originally. With the CBT we're talking about hundredths of a percent of annual revenue at most, at some point literally split the difference and be done.

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Seems like it's always "Hey we're close to a deal" in the evening, and then the next day its "Players won't budge"....which leads me to wonder if it's the owners leaking the "hey we're close to a deal" news to Heyman and Nightengale knowing full well they aren't close to a deal.

 

I think it's more a product of baseball writers trying to keep clicks on their twitter pages being overly optimistic when they don't have free agency/trades/hot stove/spring training articles to write - sure, the two sides reached agreement on a handful of gameplay measures. While technically that means a few fewer boxes to check in the overall CBA, the main impasse with financials still has a big chasm to bridge.

[KeithStone53151]

CBT - 232, 234, 236, 240, 245

Prearb pool - 50m with 2m increases each year

 

Boom, done, I effectively split up the last 0.000001% of your annual 10b. Let's play baseball.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The only ones who lose in that scenario are the fans.

 

The end result of this is they're going to have one less avid baseball fan who spends $ on MLB, who happens to have 3 kids at that age where taking an interest in a sport would lead to lifelong allegiance - tickets, merch, cable sports package, MLBTV, etc....no thanks anymore. I'm still a baseball fan, I just will spend my dollars elsewhere

[wntrtxn21]

Players going to blow this……and I’ll lose any sympathy I had for them if they do.

 

 

MLB radio just reported the players completly rejected the international draft and draft compensation.

[Jirsch]

Looks like owners just made a move per Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post: MLB offered MLBPA the option to sign the CBA now, agreeing to eliminate draft pick compensation in exchange for commitment to examining the international draft. If they don't implement the draft by 2024, league would be able to re-open CBA, per people familiar with the offer.

[markedman5]

[SerenityNow]

Time for the players to wake up and end this. If THIS is the topic that derails this discussion, then screw all of them and let's play with minor leaguers.

[wibadgers23]

Why the heck would the players be against an international draft? If this is the one thing holding up an agreement, then screw the players.

[Jirsch]

Because, if I understand it correctly, international players don't play by the same rules as amateur players from the US and Canada. There is pool money for teams to spend on international free agents that comes from MLB based on how you finish, but there is no hard cap on it. So say your team finished with a terrible record and gets the highest amount of money from the MLB to spend, for arguments sake lets say its 8 million. But there is technically no cap on it. So you can spend 30 million if you want to sign international prospects. Now there is penalties to it, but its worth it if you get the right guy. Not every team can do this since they don't have the same resources, but big markets can afford it and pay the penalty. Now if there was a draft, those players could only negotiate with the team that drafted them, just like North American kids have to. And that takes away bargaining power from the international prospect who, more than likely, lives in a poverty riddled country where another thousand or thousands of dollars matter. That's my guess.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Because, if I understand it correctly, international players don't play by the same rules as amateur players from the US and Canada. There is pool money for teams to spend on international free agents that comes from MLB based on how you finish, but there is no hard cap on it. So say your team finished with a terrible record and gets the highest amount of money from the MLB to spend, for arguments sake lets say its 8 million. But there is technically no cap on it. So you can spend 30 million if you want to sign international prospects. Now there is penalties to it, but its worth it if you get the right guy. Not every team can do this since they don't have the same resources, but big markets can afford it and pay the penalty. Now if there was a draft, those players could only negotiate with the team that drafted them, just like North American kids have to. And that takes away bargaining power from the international prospect who, more than likely, lives in a poverty riddled country where another thousand or thousands of dollars matter. That's my guess.

 

Unless the MLB was trying to fold in the older foreign professionals, I thought what you were talking about was eliminated in the last CBA in favor of a hard-capped system, albeit one where you could trade some of the money to a different team (I believe international draft picks could be traded under the proposal I heard, which would be analogous). From the stories you hear, the system is clearly broken and I think this is the best solution, but the owners waiting to toss this potentially contentious issue out there until this close to the deadline also almost seems like a concerted effort to "beat" the union or blow things up.

[Jirsch]

Ahh that's right there's a signing bonus cap and other stuff. I was on the old system with my explanation...pre 2016 stuff. Now that cap is in the 4-6 million range correct? Maybe then the latin born players want the kids to be able to sign at 16, or even earlier in some cases, even though that's not supposed to be allowed. Either way, it seems the system is rife with corruption in those countries.

[markedman5]

What a joke….’wake me when it’s over

 

[gebc1997]

I suppose this is the owners fault too

[Axman59]

These idiots can go jump in a lake. It's like they want people to leave the sport.

[homer]

the owners have kinda sorta brought up international draft several times before. not sure why it's all of a sudden a deal breaker.

[TURBO]

Seems like a stupid thing for the players to take a stand on...

[gebc1997]

I think what happened is that from what I've heard, both sides have confirmed to the insiders that the international draft was tied to the qo offer draft compensation removal. Harold Reynolds suggests that perhaps the large contingency of Latin players in the league said hold on, we don't want that at all. and from all accounts , the Latin players have no direct representative at the table in the form of a player. Lindor is there but he was in the regular draft.

 

So I think, in two straight weeks, somebody kiboshed the deal right at the end. Agents last week and The Latin players this week.

 

Enough is enough, the financial offerings were a huge win for the players in the latest offerings and once again , they sputtered it away