When Does The Lockout End? Answer: March 10th, 2022

[Axman59]

I'm out. These people can go screw themselves. After the 1994 strike I didn't watch a baseball game again until 1999. Maybe in 5 years I'll check back in and see how the league is doing.

 

Spitting in the face of your fans/customers is no way to do business.

 

 

Edit - And I also want to say that Rob Manfred is the worst commissioner of baseball in my lifetime (50 years). If the owners had any sense (they don't) they would fire Manfred immediately and replace him with someone who has some intelligence and common sense.

[Patrick425]

Plenty of blame to go around on both sides. Rob Manfred is horrible and waiting 40+ days to offer a proposal after ordering a player lockout showed a complete lack of urgency. At the same time, the players rejecting the use of a federal mediator to resolve the dispute tells me that they know they are asking for more than is reasonable.

[Brock Beauchamp]

And I also want to say that Rob Manfred is the worst commissioner of baseball in my lifetime (50 years). If the owners had any sense (they don't) they would fire Manfred immediately and replace him with someone who has some intelligence and common sense.

Oh, Rob Manfred is a very smart man with an explicit role defined by his ability to break the back of labor. It has been his career, dating back well before he ever became involved in baseball.

 

He is a terrible choice of commissioner. He'll win the short-term battles but will continue to lose the long-term battles (ie. the sport is already in decline and that will only accelerate the longer he is commissioner and maintains this hard line of "five dollars today at the expense of losing ten dollars tomorrow, but hey at least I beat the hell out of the union in the process").

 

The owners would be so much better served if they have enough vision to realize that they need to hire someone who will steer them away from their worst tendencies, not eagerly shove them toward buying all-in on those tendencies.

[xisxisxis]

Historically I am not a big fan of paying people to play a game a large amount of money. I haven't really sided with the players, but there's no sense fighting the battle that there is too much money being dedicated to a game with some level of "entertainment". The last CBA ended up reducing the percentage of money that goes to player salaries and the current proposals do nothing to guarantee the actual talent is going to share equitably moving forward. It's odd that the NBA and NFL players unions are so weak compared to MLBPA, but the owners in those sports are more than willing to share the wealth with the players. It's almost as if those sports understand that it's in their best interest to have fans thinking positively about their stars/players, while MLB seems fine to trash their own product every time a CBA comes up for renewal. The MLB owners have basically not moved on anything to get more money to players sooner and their movement is measured by a micrometer, while the MLBPA has seeded much more. They have done nothing to level the playing field for small market teams. MLB owners wanted expanded playoffs to tap into an additional $130M in TV revenue from ESPN plus game revenues, but the owners made every attempt to not share $1 with the players. It's almost as if the MLB owners think them making truckloads of money is the sport fans want to see. I'm done with them.

[jjgott]

It's odd that the NBA and NFL players unions are so weak compared to MLBPA, but the owners in those sports are more than willing to share the wealth with the players. It's almost as if those sports understand that it's in their best interest to have fans thinking positively about their stars/players, while MLB seems fine to trash their own product every time a CBA comes up for renewal.

 

Those leagues also realized that player movement is great for the sport and adds to interest in the offseason. MLB Owners from time immemorial are all about how much control they can have over the players and only want to see a player leave on the Owner's terms.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I mean, Manfred calling a press conference to bully pulpit spin this tells you what you need to know. If there was a deal anywhere close, why would you antagonize your bargaining partner?

 

This is all about power moves, and the union rightfully resents it at this point. Of course, the union also has very little leverage right now. The owners will miss games to avoid making a deal, and that's that.

 

I feel like we've reached mutually assured destruction. Both sides seem like they'd rather blow up the system than be perceived to give anything. Does a really bad media cycle change that? I don't know. Maybe. But it's clear to me that, right now, these sides hate each other and are totally bought in to doing everything possible to avoid substantive agreement for fear of letting the other side claim PR victory.

 

We've reached two-party politics point, basically. It would not surprise me if all this extended bargaining was a show designed to allow them to say they tried.

[gebc1997]

Every single concern of the players was addressed in this proposal.

 

More money for younger players. Check

 

Large increase in minimum salaries

At least 30 million in extra cash for the best of them

 

 

The concern that some teams tank. Check

 

Lottery style draft for the first 5 picks

More playoff teams

 

 

Service time manipulation. Check

 

Guaranteed a year if service for anybody finishing in the top 2 in Roy voting

 

 

And general concerns, Check

 

No draft pick compensation

No increase in the taxes for going over the threshold

10 million increase in the threshold itself

 

 

 

I think the agents got in the ear of the players and put the kibosh on this before they agreed to it.

 

 

 

Why do we care if owners make a ton of money, that’s great for the team, and the fans and the city if they do. The players are not just entitled to some specific portion of it. A few clubs at the bottom do need to do a better job of spending shared cash, but most payrolls are right where they should be when you consider the market size.

[gebc1997]

It's odd that the NBA and NFL players unions are so weak compared to MLBPA, but the owners in those sports are more than willing to share the wealth with the players. It's almost as if those sports understand that it's in their best interest to have fans thinking positively about their stars/players, while MLB seems fine to trash their own product every time a CBA comes up for renewal.

 

Those leagues also realized that player movement is great for the sport and adds to interest in the offseason. MLB Owners from time immemorial are all about how much control they can have over the players and only want to see a player leave on the Owner's terms.

 

Player movement is great for a sport when all teams are starting with the same general pot to start from. That is the case in football , and nowhere near the case in baseball, so they must limit the ease of free agency to counter that

[PinaMadness]

MLB is such a joke. Every other pro sports league can figure out their labor agreements without missing any time but this always proves to be too difficult a task for baseball.

[sveumrules]

Manfred at this point is essentially like that big brother that takes your own hands and starts slapping you in your own face with them & then asks mockingly "why are you slapping yourself in the face?"

[ThisIsMyCrew]

Well, Atleast Yelich per game salary will be lower.

[Baldkin]

Every single concern of the players was addressed in this proposal.

 

More money for younger players. Check

 

Large increase in minimum salaries

At least 30 million in extra cash for the best of them

 

 

The concern that some teams tank. Check

 

Lottery style draft for the first 5 picks

More playoff teams

 

 

Service time manipulation. Check

 

Guaranteed a year if service for anybody finishing in the top 2 in Roy voting

 

 

And general concerns, Check

 

No draft pick compensation

No increase in the taxes for going over the threshold

10 million increase in the threshold itself

 

 

 

I think the agents got in the ear of the players and put the kibosh on this before they agreed to it.

 

 

 

Why do we care if owners make a ton of money, that’s great for the team, and the fans and the city if they do. The players are not just entitled to some specific portion of it. A few clubs at the bottom do need to do a better job of spending shared cash, but most payrolls are right where they should be when you consider the market size.

 

If the owners want the players on board with their latest proposalthey should open up their books and demonstrate these financial hardships.

[Baldkin]

From my season seat holder email today, in blatant anti union propaganda:

 

 

 

MLB has worked hard to prevent this situation. The league requested the assistance of a federal mediator, made significant offers to address the union's concerns, and participated in nine consecutive days of negotiations, including a 17-hour day, to reach an agreement.

[gebc1997]

From my season seat holder email today, in blatant anti union propaganda:

 

 

 

MLB has worked hard to prevent this situation. The league requested the assistance of a federal mediator, made significant offers to address the union's concerns, and participated in nine consecutive days of negotiations, including a 17-hour day, to reach an agreement.

 

Good, it is the unions fault for the most part.

[gebc1997]

Every single concern of the players was addressed in this proposal.

 

More money for younger players. Check

 

Large increase in minimum salaries

At least 30 million in extra cash for the best of them

 

 

The concern that some teams tank. Check

 

Lottery style draft for the first 5 picks

More playoff teams

 

 

Service time manipulation. Check

 

Guaranteed a year if service for anybody finishing in the top 2 in Roy voting

 

 

And general concerns, Check

 

No draft pick compensation

No increase in the taxes for going over the threshold

10 million increase in the threshold itself

 

 

 

I think the agents got in the ear of the players and put the kibosh on this before they agreed to it.

 

 

 

Why do we care if owners make a ton of money, that’s great for the team, and the fans and the city if they do. The players are not just entitled to some specific portion of it. A few clubs at the bottom do need to do a better job of spending shared cash, but most payrolls are right where they should be when you consider the market size.

 

If the owners want the players on board with their latest proposalthey should open up their books and demonstrate these financial hardships.

 

Where in my post did I suggest the owners are having financial hardships

[homer]

From my season seat holder email today, in blatant anti union propaganda:

 

 

 

MLB has worked hard to prevent this situation. The league requested the assistance of a federal mediator, made significant offers to address the union's concerns, and participated in nine consecutive days of negotiations, including a 17-hour day, to reach an agreement.

 

Good, it is the unions fault for the most part.

 

it's the unions fault the owners locked out the players?

[gebc1997]

The reason the clubs did the lockout was to prevent the players from striking towards the end of the season like they did in 94, when to playoffs and best part of the season were at stake.

 

The clubs could have just said we are moving on to the new season with the old agreement, and we will negotiate during the season, and then bang a strike in august and it’s all gone.

 

I will certainly agree that the clubs should’ve pressed more for meetings and negotiations over the last three months

[Fear The Chorizo]

The irony is not lost on me that one of the key player reps who took part in most of these negotiations was Max Scherzer, fresh off inking a fully guaranteed 3 yr deal at the conclusion of the last CBA that is apparently horrible for players that will pay him about $43m per season to pitch in about 32 regular season games until he is 40. He will also be getting annual $15m in deferred money from his last contract through 2028, giving him about $375m in career earnings as a player. I dont think I can't find a small enough violin...

 

Congrats to the MLBPA in at least ensuring they won't have to read 5 years worth of articles knocking them for not trying harder to get a better deal for themselves negotiating a new CBA like they have from 2017-2021. Now they have no deal at all, and unless they come down from their competitive balance cap proposals that escalate at a rate similar to a salary cap, they'll probably be playing in Japan or Korea this year.

 

The more I look at what is financially separating these two sides (and always has been), the more I'm certain the Brewers and other small market teams were going to be hosed no matter what. Not sayng they wouldn't make money, but it will be that much harder to try and be a consistent competitive ballclub due to financial disparity.

 

Until the current operating model shares much more revenues, the players can't have both enormous luxury tax thresholds and large pre arby bonus pools and the owners can't gripe about having to give players more pay that tracks along with increasing league revenues. People want MLB to operate like the NFL or NBA when it comes to CBA discussions - well then the onfield product has to be on the same financial playing field throughout the league. It seems like both players and owners don't universally want a salary cap and floor, so we get to watch them be fools every half decade or so when they redo these CBA's

 

I for one am looking forward to the minor league season, pretty sure that will proceed as scheduled for players not on 40 man rosters, right?

[gebc1997]

The irony is not lost on me that one of the key player reps who took part in most of these negotiations was Max Scherzer, fresh off inking a fully guaranteed 3 yr deal at the conclusion of the last CBA that is apparently horrible for players that will pay him about $43m per season to pitch in about 32 regular season games until he is 40. He will also be getting annual $15m in deferred money from his last contract through 2028, giving him about $375m in career earnings as a player. I dont think I can't find a small enough violin...

 

Congrats to the MLBPA in at least ensuring they won't have to read 5 years worth of articles knocking them for not trying harder to get a better deal for themselves negotiating a new CBA like they have from 2017-2021. Now they have no deal at all, and unless they come down from their competitive balance cap proposals that escalate at a rate similar to a salary cap, they'll probably be playing in Japan or Korea this year.

 

The more I look at what is financially separating these two sides (and always has been), the more I'm certain the Brewers and other small market teams were going to be hosed no matter what. Not sayng they wouldn't make money, but it will be that much harder to try and be a consistent competitive ballclub due to financial disparity.

 

Until the current operating model shares much more revenues, the players can't have both enormous luxury tax thresholds and large pre arby bonus pools and the owners can't gripe about having to give players more pay that tracks along with increasing league revenues. People want MLB to operate like the NFL or NBA when it comes to CBA discussions - well then the onfield product has to be on the same financial playing field throughout the league. It seems like both players and owners don't universally want a salary cap and floor, so we get to watch them be fools every half decade or so when they redo these CBA's

 

I for one am looking forward to the minor league season, pretty sure that will proceed as scheduled for players not on 40 man rosters, right?

 

Well said

[Oxy]

There is no possible way that each side agreeing to hire an arbitration panel to settle the dispute would be more expensive than cancelling a WEEKS worth of MLB games.

[TURBO]

The process has been nothing short of gross.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The irony is not lost on me that one of the key player reps who took part in most of these negotiations was Max Scherzer, fresh off inking a fully guaranteed 3 yr deal at the conclusion of the last CBA that is apparently horrible for players that will pay him about $43m per season to pitch in about 32 regular season games until he is 40. He will also be getting annual $15m in deferred money from his last contract through 2028, giving him about $375m in career earnings as a player. I dont think I can't find a small enough violin...

 

Glad I'm not the only one who was bothered by this. Scherzer looks pretty disingenuous in my mind. Having him there fighting for the "little guy" after signing that enormous deal with a huge market and the richest owner in the league is pretty questionable optics. Also, with a minimum salary of roughly $700,000, there really are no "little guys" to be fought for. That is a lot of money wherever you choose to live in this country.

 

I know they will eventually work something out, but right now following this whole process has made me sick to my stomach.

[homer]

The irony is not lost on me that one of the key player reps who took part in most of these negotiations was Max Scherzer, fresh off inking a fully guaranteed 3 yr deal at the conclusion of the last CBA that is apparently horrible for players that will pay him about $43m per season to pitch in about 32 regular season games until he is 40. He will also be getting annual $15m in deferred money from his last contract through 2028, giving him about $375m in career earnings as a player. I dont think I can't find a small enough violin...

 

 

Did the players go on strike? This is all about the owners forcing the players to fix the mistakes the owners keep making.

[gebc1997]

The irony is not lost on me that one of the key player reps who took part in most of these negotiations was Max Scherzer, fresh off inking a fully guaranteed 3 yr deal at the conclusion of the last CBA that is apparently horrible for players that will pay him about $43m per season to pitch in about 32 regular season games until he is 40. He will also be getting annual $15m in deferred money from his last contract through 2028, giving him about $375m in career earnings as a player. I dont think I can't find a small enough violin...

 

 

Did the players go on strike? This is all about the owners forcing the players to fix the mistakes the owners keep making.

 

The players would have absolutely gone on strike at some point this year without them getting what they want.

[Jopal78]

 

 

Did the players go on strike? This is all about the owners forcing the players to fix the mistakes the owners keep making.

 

No labor union in America is going to show up to work without a collective bargaining agreement with the employer. There was going to be a work stoppage in MLB once the CBA expired no matter what. Does it really matter if you call it a lock out or a strike?

 

I think what also gets lost here, nobody is asking the MLBPA to maintain the status quo established under the last CBA. It is indisputable if the players accepted whatever MLB's last offer was they'd be doing better than they were under the last agreement. So really, this labor fight is about--how much better the players are going to do compared to the last CBA.

 

Seemingly, the narrative has developed that solely because the teams are profitable and despite already paying fantastic wages, in the spirit of fairness they somehow should take less profits and pay out even more in salary, a concept which is not supported by law or custom in America.

 

I suppose in part the writers fear losing access to Max Scherzer or other star player members of the MLBPA, while nobody would really care if Attanasio, or Larry Dolan refused to speak to the press when this eventually concludes, and therefore the articles put out are heavily critical of the owners. Certainly they are not blameless, then again if they give up the farm now, what is going to be the ask from the MLBPA in 2027 or 2028 because it won't be maintaining the status quo.

 

If you like the Brewers as opposed to following certain players, its bad for your fandom. They're never going to have a NY/LA type of payroll, they'll have to stretch their dollars even further, and the success cycle will be even smaller, and even more challenging to successfully rebuild.