When Does The Lockout End? Answer: March 10th, 2022

[TURBO]

I've heard similar stories about Braun saying those things and I am sure many players feel the same, but I think you guys are making a bit much of it. I'm sure there are things a lot of them would rather be doing than traveling 9 months a year and living out of hotels but when someone is paying you $15 million it is hard to voluntarily walk away from it. I'm sure if they could make that money playing baseball at the local park, they would. You're watching the games from your house and consuming an entertainment product without any of the grind they go through. Even at a crazy rate of compensation the routine has to get old and let's remember that most of them have been playing this sport since they were 6.

 

There is no need to throw a pity party for them but they are missing out on a lot of life experiences by playing ball for a living.

 

They aren't missing out on anything they didn't choose to miss out on. Based on our own individual choices, we all miss out on things, it's the way life is.

 

If they don't want to travel 9 months a year and live out of hotels, and make millions, they don't have to.

 

If they don't like the "grind" and making millions, they are free to stop the "grind."

 

We all have routines, jobs, and lives, they just happen to be paid FAR more than the rest of us. Not just FAR more, but an incomprehensible amount more than the rest of us.

 

Sorry, even when you try and make it sound like they lead such horrible lives, I don't feel the least bit sorry for them. They are blessed with a talent that 99.99999% of the rest of the world does not have, and get paid handsomely for that talent. If they don't like what comes with it, they are completely free to do something else.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I've heard similar stories about Braun saying those things and I am sure many players feel the same, but I think you guys are making a bit much of it. I'm sure there are things a lot of them would rather be doing than traveling 9 months a year and living out of hotels but when someone is paying you $15 million it is hard to voluntarily walk away from it. I'm sure if they could make that money playing baseball at the local park, they would. You're watching the games from your house and consuming an entertainment product without any of the grind they go through. Even at a crazy rate of compensation the routine has to get old and let's remember that most of them have been playing this sport since they were 6.

 

There is no need to throw a pity party for them but they are missing out on a lot of life experiences by playing ball for a living.

 

They aren't missing out on anything they didn't choose to miss out on. Based on our own individual choices, we all miss out on things, it's the way life is.

 

If they don't want to travel 9 months a year and live out of hotels, and make millions, they don't have to.

 

If they don't like the "grind" and making millions, they are free to stop the "grind."

 

We all have routines, jobs, and lives, they just happen to be paid FAR more than the rest of us. Not just FAR more, but an incomprehensible amount more than the rest of us.

 

Sorry, even when you try and make it sound like they lead such horrible lives, I don't feel the least bit sorry for them. They are blessed with a talent that 99.99999% of the rest of the world does not have, and get paid handsomely for that talent. If they don't like what comes with it, they are completely free to do something else.

 

Uh, sorry, who said they live horrible lives? Talk about a straw man. And holy moly, coming from a guy that complains about his profession constantly, kind of rich.

 

Guys, they're not normal people, lol. They are special. They make millions of dollars a year to play. We can kill the comparisons to all our desk jockey jobs because they are not existing on the same planet.

 

You would do literally anything on the planet for the money these guys make, and the fact of the matter is that after enough time, you adjust to it, you find parts of it that are annoying and unlikable, and you do envision a day where you no longer have to do those things.

 

So...sorry, but I won't fault players for finding certain aspects of the job to be a pain in the rear, no matter how much money they make. They are human and have opinions about all aspects of their profession. Tax law is not fun either, but it pays well and I can complain about aspects of the work without being ungrateful or evil. And I absolutely fantasize about not doing it one day. That's not reflective of lack of effort or being spoiled. It is what it is. A job that has good and bad for the people doing it.

 

Bold: I'm sure a lot of ballplayers would like to go on vacations with their kids in the summertime but that is not something they can do. It's not about having a pity party, but even suggesting they "chose" something like that because they play baseball is just ridiculous. Do you honestly expect them to go be accountants for 1/80th of the pay to go on a trip in the summer? It has literally nothing to do with their "awful lives" or "feeling sorry", the point is that ACTUAL baseball players don't view being a baseball player through the lens that baseball FANS do.

 

The line you guys are holding is basically that rich people can't complain about their jobs, which is asinine.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Traveling everywhere, having half the year off of work, partying in a big city every night, hooking up with beautiful women, playing a game for a living and being paid gobs of money for it sounds amazing to me. Unfortunately, I have no athletic talent.

 

Personally the travel aspect of pro sports sounds absolutely miserable to me. Can't think of a worse way to spend 9 months especially when 1/2 of it is to Cincinnati, Chicago, St. Louis and Pittsburgh repeatedly.

 

The other truth that is usually ignored in these conversations is that the vast majority of people don't have the work ethic necessary to make it in professional sports but that isn't something people like to hear. They don't have "half the year off" either. For every David Wells there are 100 guys busting their tail year-round to survive and just stay on a roster.

 

The cognitive dissonance between what a fan thinks and what a professional athlete actually has to do to remain a pro athlete in 97% of cases in staggering. But not all that surprising considering 40% of Americans think they can compete at the Olympics. Reminds me of when fans used to say NFL players make $X to "work one day a week." Yeah...OK.

[adambr2]

Traveling everywhere, having half the year off of work, partying in a big city every night, hooking up with beautiful women, playing a game for a living and being paid gobs of money for it sounds amazing to me. Unfortunately, I have no athletic talent.

 

Personally the travel aspect of pro sports sounds absolutely miserable to me. Can't think of a worse way to spend 9 months especially when 1/2 of it is to Cincinnati, Chicago, St. Louis and Pittsburgh repeatedly.

 

The other truth that is usually ignored in these conversations is that the vast majority of people don't have the work ethic necessary to make it in professional sports but that isn't something people like to hear. They don't have "half the year off" either. For every David Wells there are 100 guys busting their tail year-round to survive and just stay on a roster.

 

The cognitive dissonance between what a fan thinks and what a professional athlete actually has to do to remain a pro athlete in 97% of cases in staggering. But not all that surprising considering 40% of Americans think they can compete at the Olympics. Reminds me of when fans used to say NFL players make $X to "work one day a week." Yeah...OK.

 

The first paragraph is just kind of agree to disagree. I love traveling and like staying in hotels. I can understand the struggle for those who have families, though.

 

I'm going to assume the second paragraph wasn't directed specifically at me. I understand that these guys have to work their tails off to stay in their professions. I'm by no means comparing myself to any professional athlete, but I spent 12 years in the military -- granted, got out of shape but worked my butt off to lose 50 pounds last year and currently run 4 to 5 miles a day 6 days a week to keep it off. I like to think my work ethic is better than most.

 

I can compete in the Olympics, I'll just be last in every event. Seriously though, while it's true that some guys really got to where they are through an insane amount of hard work (Aaron Kampman comes to mind), the vast majority of them have obscenely more talent than any of us will ever have. Even Rudy had no shot of ever competing professionally.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I also love hotels, I just think I might have enough of the Downtown Cincinnati Hilton by my 67th night there in year 4 of my career. I imagine that for a bunch of guys whose yearly incomes eclipse what most make in a lifetime, spending 4 nights in LA or Baltimore is just not that much fun or their idea of great travel.

[nate82]

Traveling for work sucks sometimes I just love going to Delaware once or twice a year when I had to travel. Columbus OH is also another one in the middle of January so much fun.

[Opening Day]

Personally I don’t care if the owners have to file for bankruptcy or make a trillion dollars. I don’t care if the players make minimum wage or if they make so much they send the billionaire owners into bankruptcy. I just want a Brewers WS and a deal that works them. A guy with a summertime job who is worth $100 mil fighting with his business owner who is worth 2 billion over millions, its tough for me to emotionally take a side. I will say, I think my definition of “exploited” is a little different than some of these posts. Edited February 27, 2022 by Opening Day

[adambr2]

Personally I don’t care if the owners have to file for bankruptcy or make a trillion dollars. I don’t care if the players make minimum wage or if they make so much they send the billionaire owners into bankruptcy. I just want a Brewers WS and a deal that works them. A guy with a summertime job who is worth $100 fighting with his business owner who is worth 2 billion over millions, its tough for me to emotionally take a side. I will say, I think my definition of “exploited” is a little different than some of these posts.

 

This is pretty much where I'm at. I guess I'd lean players over owners if I had to pick a side, but at the end of the day I can't really feel emotionally involved for either side. They're both insanely more rich than I'll ever be and so their inability to divide up an enormous pie fairly isn't something I can view much more than comically about. You both suck, figure it out and don't expect any public support.

 

Tell me about the guys in the minors with no union representation and two sides who don't care about them riding busses and making poverty level wages for years just to have a shot when most of them will never make it, and I'll have a much easier time feeling emotionally involved about it.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Honestly I'd be fine with MLB disappearing for 5 years if at the end of that, a new league existed where the playing field was equal across the league. I'm a sucker for Brewers baseball but the system in which it exists is beyond stupid and horrible for fans.

[superfly]

Honestly I'd be fine with MLB disappearing for 5 years if at the end of that, a new league existed where the playing field was equal across the league. I'm a sucker for Brewers baseball but the system in which it exists is beyond stupid and horrible for fans.

 

Imagine a league that actually made sure the baseball games were on for every fan that wished to view them in their own market. Hard for me to get too excited when I can’t even watch a game without paying a sole giant enterprise ridiculous sums of money.

[logan82]

Traveling everywhere, having half the year off of work, partying in a big city every night, hooking up with beautiful women, playing a game for a living and being paid gobs of money for it sounds amazing to me. Unfortunately, I have no athletic talent.

 

Personally the travel aspect of pro sports sounds absolutely miserable to me. Can't think of a worse way to spend 9 months especially when 1/2 of it is to Cincinnati, Chicago, St. Louis and Pittsburgh repeatedly.

 

The other truth that is usually ignored in these conversations is that the vast majority of people don't have the work ethic necessary to make it in professional sports but that isn't something people like to hear. They don't have "half the year off" either. For every David Wells there are 100 guys busting their tail year-round to survive and just stay on a roster.

 

The cognitive dissonance between what a fan thinks and what a professional athlete actually has to do to remain a pro athlete in 97% of cases in staggering. But not all that surprising considering 40% of Americans think they can compete at the Olympics. Reminds me of when fans used to say NFL players make $X to "work one day a week." Yeah...OK.

Well yeah, curling. But really it is harder than it looks I am sure.

 

Honestly I'd be fine with MLB disappearing for 5 years if at the end of that, a new league existed where the playing field was equal across the league. I'm a sucker for Brewers baseball but the system in which it exists is beyond stupid and horrible for fans.

I would probably be fine with that too.

 

The worst part of the current system is that the best thing for the players and large markets might be to have no cap or sharing. It would probably result in more large contracts for players. Or complete revenue sharing which will never happen. As a small market team I can see why you wouldn't want to bother paying a ton of money to one or more players because you can't compete anyway. With even revenue sharing you can lockup your best players and have a chance to build around them with a larger margin for error.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Apparently a bad negotiating day today after progress yesterday.

 

MLB is by far my favorite sport, but I am pretty zen about how sad this state of affairs is. Just not worth bothering following the day-to-day. I'll be happy if there are games this summer, but, honestly, if not, whatever. Plenty else to do and watch.

 

Mostly, I think the owners are fundamentally dishonest and the players are doing a pretty bad job of representing the "bottom" two-thirds of their membership, who would clearly benefit more from a salary floor than a higher lux tax threshold. That's not me trying to "both sides" it. Just me saying the whole system is based on lack of transparency and the wrong incentives.

[homer]

if you have MLB.tv you may want to cancel. It auto-renews on March 1 for a lot of people I believe

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Perhaps a glimmer of hope:

 

Jon Heyman

@JonHeyman

·

1h

Contradictory to all the negativity/ upset surrounding the MLB/players talks, one person involved said he believes the sides are now “within striking distance” and a deal could be done be tomorrow night. Luxury tax remains the sticky issue but a 225/230M threshold should work.

[Thurston Fluff]

Mostly, I think the owners are fundamentally dishonest and the players are doing a pretty bad job of representing the "bottom" two-thirds of their membership, who would clearly benefit more from a salary floor than a higher lux tax threshold. That's not me trying to "both sides" it. Just me saying the whole system is based on lack of transparency and the wrong incentives.

 

That sums it up pretty well. The union is interested in big numbers but not the whole group. I think part of that is player agents. The agents get bigger paychecks when the players get larger contracts. That creates an incentive for them to get larger contracts for individuals yet their only power over the negotiations is to convince their clients larger individual contracts are best for the union as a whole.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Mostly, I think the owners are fundamentally dishonest and the players are doing a pretty bad job of representing the "bottom" two-thirds of their membership, who would clearly benefit more from a salary floor than a higher lux tax threshold. That's not me trying to "both sides" it. Just me saying the whole system is based on lack of transparency and the wrong incentives.

I don't feel this is anywhere near "both sidesing" it. I agree that the players aren't doing a good job of protecting younger players while I also acknowledge the owners are a much bigger problem right now.

[AZBrewCrew]

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[kalle8]

[attachment=0]6E13BA12-05C2-41BD-89F4-B70875146A07.jpeg[/attachment]

 

this is a great piece of advice, thanks.

[sveumrules]

Liberty Media released their 2021 financials the other day offering a sneak peek into the Braves accounting...

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-braves-made-some-money-in-2021/

 

A couple key paragraphs...

 

The Braves enjoyed a banner year in 2021. Per their filing, they turned a profit of $104 million. That’s full-year OIBDA, or operating income before depreciation and amortization. That brings their four-year operating income, including the pandemic-marred 2020 season, to $193 million.

 

If you’re looking for a rough idea of how teams fared from 2018 through ’21, using the Braves’ numbers and lopping off $40 million from their results last season isn’t a bad start. That would tell you that the average team has made roughly $145 million in operating income over the past four years, even including a disastrous 2020.

 

Of course that second paragraph requires some extrapolation & educated guess work since we don't have the same access to other teams' financials, but it would appear the owners have been faring pretty well even with the pandemic wiping out a whole year of attendance in 2020, taking a bite out of attendance in 2021 & now probably losing some of the 2022 gate as well due to labor strife.

[markedman5]

average value of a baseball franchise is about 2 billion I believe

 

So 36 million average per year on a 2 million dollar investment.......not exactly huge money.

 

Obviously the real value of owning one is in the reselling.....not the operating income.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Liberty Media released their 2021 financials the other day offering a sneak peek into the Braves accounting...

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-braves-made-some-money-in-2021/

 

A couple key paragraphs...

 

The Braves enjoyed a banner year in 2021. Per their filing, they turned a profit of $104 million. That’s full-year OIBDA, or operating income before depreciation and amortization. That brings their four-year operating income, including the pandemic-marred 2020 season, to $193 million.

 

If you’re looking for a rough idea of how teams fared from 2018 through ’21, using the Braves’ numbers and lopping off $40 million from their results last season isn’t a bad start. That would tell you that the average team has made roughly $145 million in operating income over the past four years, even including a disastrous 2020.

 

Of course that second paragraph requires some extrapolation & educated guess work since we don't have the same access to other teams' financials, but it would appear the owners have been faring pretty well even with the pandemic wiping out a whole year of attendance in 2020, taking a bite out of attendance in 2021 & now probably losing some of the 2022 gate as well due to labor strife.

 

This makes sense and shows the "obvious" thing that maybe isn't getting enough attention.

 

Pure and simple, the owners have the leverage. They don't need games the same way the bulk of the players do, and they know a good chunk of the casual fan base will blame the players for any missed games because, well, that's how it works in a capitalist system. It's easy to blame highly visible millionaires while billionaires hide behind the curtain.

[monty57]

Liberty Media released their 2021 financials the other day offering a sneak peek into the Braves accounting...

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-braves-made-some-money-in-2021/

 

A couple key paragraphs...

 

The Braves enjoyed a banner year in 2021. Per their filing, they turned a profit of $104 million. That’s full-year OIBDA, or operating income before depreciation and amortization. That brings their four-year operating income, including the pandemic-marred 2020 season, to $193 million.

 

If you’re looking for a rough idea of how teams fared from 2018 through ’21, using the Braves’ numbers and lopping off $40 million from their results last season isn’t a bad start. That would tell you that the average team has made roughly $145 million in operating income over the past four years, even including a disastrous 2020.

 

Of course that second paragraph requires some extrapolation & educated guess work since we don't have the same access to other teams' financials, but it would appear the owners have been faring pretty well even with the pandemic wiping out a whole year of attendance in 2020, taking a bite out of attendance in 2021 & now probably losing some of the 2022 gate as well due to labor strife.

 

So, the team made $193 million in profit in a four-year period in which they paid their players $474,521,814? Seems like the players did okay in that deal.

[Brock Beauchamp]

So, the team made $193 million in profit in a four-year period in which they paid their players $474,521,814? Seems like the players did okay in that deal.

Except labor is an operating cost, not profit. Viewing the two as the same thing is wrong, as the players are literally the ones out there working to provide a product. Is the pay of the general manager profit, too?

[markedman5]

Liberty Media released their 2021 financials the other day offering a sneak peek into the Braves accounting...

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-braves-made-some-money-in-2021/

 

A couple key paragraphs...

 

The Braves enjoyed a banner year in 2021. Per their filing, they turned a profit of $104 million. That’s full-year OIBDA, or operating income before depreciation and amortization. That brings their four-year operating income, including the pandemic-marred 2020 season, to $193 million.

 

If you’re looking for a rough idea of how teams fared from 2018 through ’21, using the Braves’ numbers and lopping off $40 million from their results last season isn’t a bad start. That would tell you that the average team has made roughly $145 million in operating income over the past four years, even including a disastrous 2020.

 

Of course that second paragraph requires some extrapolation & educated guess work since we don't have the same access to other teams' financials, but it would appear the owners have been faring pretty well even with the pandemic wiping out a whole year of attendance in 2020, taking a bite out of attendance in 2021 & now probably losing some of the 2022 gate as well due to labor strife.

 

So, the team made $193 million in profit in a four-year period in which they paid their players $474,521,814? Seems like the players did okay in that deal.

 

Max Scherzer just signed a 130 million dollar 3 year deal.......so that is 43 Million per year for throwing 6 innings every 5 days..........in what other industry does the highest paid employee earn as much or more then the owner of the company?

 

Tim Cook made 93 million in total comp in 2021 for running the largest company in the world.........Apple made 124 billion in profit.........

[Brock Beauchamp]

average value of a baseball franchise is about 2 billion I believe

 

So 36 million average per year on a 2 million dollar investment.......not exactly huge money.

 

Obviously the real value of owning one is in the reselling.....not the operating income.

I'm not sure it's accurate to base the long-term viability of the business and its profit when 33% of their reporting includes the dumpster fire that was 2020. The pandemic took a significant toll early in the 2021 season, too. Out of 36 months, roughly 18 of them were financially diminished in some capacity.