6 new members of the Hall of Fame

[nate82]

Ortiz is the only player voted in this year:

https://www.mlb.com/news/baseball-hall-of-fame-2022-voting

[patrickgpe]

I'm happy Bonds and Clemens were left out.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Don't mean to look ahead too quickly, but unless I am missing a potential first-timer next season, it really does seem like Rolen or bust in 2023. I can't see Helton or Wagner making up that much ground and none of the other returners were even over 50%.

[TURBO]

I'm happy Bonds and Clemens were left out.

 

SAME!

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't care too much about any HOF but no Bonds and Clemens feels like a joke. I knew it was coming, but it's a joke. Bonds was an all-timer before any drugs. It is basically the Hall of Very Good Who Were Also Kind to BBWAA. This cheating is ok, this cheating is not...snore, whatever.

[tmwiese55]

Yea I think it's ridiculous Bonds isn't in. Even more compounded by somehow Ortiz gets in with a failed test. Remember Pudge walked right into. But Bonds can't as the best player of the generation.

[SeaBass]

Yep, the Hall of Fame has pretty much rendered itself meaningless to me. Who cares? Just a popularity contest. The stats will live on and the true greats will be at the top, no voting needed.

[TURBO]

Screw Bonds!

 

Not only was he a known cheater, positive tests or not, (there was no physical way his shoe size and head grew like that into his 40's), he was also a grade A jerk to the 10th power.

 

I have no sympathy for a POS like him not making the hall of fame.

 

The fact that he didn't make it in his last year of eligibility absolutely made my day.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The Hall is full of "known cheaters" and even more jerks. I don't really lose a second of sleep over any player not making the hall. So on that level I couldn't care less.

 

But there's a place claiming to honor the best players without Bonds (one of the best hitters ever before any cheating occurred), Pete Rose and Roger Clemens...while Harold Baines, he of the career WAR 10 below Ryan Braun, resides there because he has friends on the veteran committee.

 

If they're going to be morality police, they should probably create some standards and not just arbitrarily decide which cheaters and jerks get a pass.

 

Oh, and probably remove the commissioner who resided over all this cheating and allowed it to proceed because it was great for the sport at the time.

Edited January 26, 2022 by OldSchoolSnapper

[DuWayne Steurer]

Yep, the Hall of Fame has pretty much rendered itself meaningless to me. Who cares? Just a popularity contest. The stats will live on and the true greats will be at the top, no voting needed.

 

 

I don't care too much that Barry Bonds didn't make it. I don't care too much that Big Papi did. I think though, what it's showing is that there's a significant enough number of voters who are voting for guys who were nice to the press to make a difference on whether or not these guys make it into the hall or not, and that's a dumb reason to vote for someone or not.

 

If you want to *not* vote for guys who cheated, be consistent with that. If you want to not vote for guys who were strongly considered (but never proven) to be cheaters, be consistent with that. But not voting for Bonds (who was a dink to the press) while voting for Papi, is just silly

[Outlander]

It was expected but still silly Bonds wasn't elected. Even more bizarre considering Ortiz elected first ballot.

[SeaBass]

Yep, the Hall of Fame has pretty much rendered itself meaningless to me. Who cares? Just a popularity contest. The stats will live on and the true greats will be at the top, no voting needed.

 

 

I don't care too much that Barry Bonds didn't make it. I don't care too much that Big Papi did. I think though, what it's showing is that there's a significant enough number of voters who are voting for guys who were nice to the press to make a difference on whether or not these guys make it into the hall or not, and that's a dumb reason to vote for someone or not.

 

If you want to *not* vote for guys who cheated, be consistent with that. If you want to not vote for guys who were strongly considered (but never proven) to be cheaters, be consistent with that. But not voting for Bonds (who was a dink to the press) while voting for Papi, is just silly

Exactly. I have never been a fan of Bonds, or Clemens, didn't like them personally. Like you've hinted at, I don't care one bit how them being excluded from the HoF makes them feel. I doubt they care either, I saw a quote from Clemens that he stopped caring about the Hall of Fame 10 years ago.

 

For me, the whole process just feels like a sanctimonious ego stroke by the baseball writers. I don't need their Hall of Fame votes to tell me which players I'm allowed to think were the best of the best.

 

Similarly, I've felt my interest in MVP and other awards voting, in any sport, has been waning too. All these voters give me the impression that they want to be the focus instead of the game being the focus. I hear a growing amount of people say that the MVP should include the post season, sounds like the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. It's always been a regular season award. If you want a playoffs MVP just create one, I personally felt like the Super Bowl or World Series MVP already had that covered but I guess not.

[CheeseheadInQC]

For all the heat the writers take, put some on the Hall itself. Some writers asked for guidance on dealing with PEDs and apparently got crickets until the Joe Morgan letter.

[StearnsFTW]

Yep, the Hall of Fame has pretty much rendered itself meaningless to me. Who cares? Just a popularity contest. The stats will live on and the true greats will be at the top, no voting needed.

 

 

I don't care too much that Barry Bonds didn't make it. I don't care too much that Big Papi did. I think though, what it's showing is that there's a significant enough number of voters who are voting for guys who were nice to the press to make a difference on whether or not these guys make it into the hall or not, and that's a dumb reason to vote for someone or not.

 

If you want to *not* vote for guys who cheated, be consistent with that. If you want to not vote for guys who were strongly considered (but never proven) to be cheaters, be consistent with that. But not voting for Bonds (who was a dink to the press) while voting for Papi, is just silly

 

Agree with this. If I had a vote I would probably just stick with the guys that were busted and not the guys I suspected. And the whole media thing is just stupid. That's how you get guys like Ted Williams as a non-unanimous selection.

 

Edit: Also want to agree with the people that care less every year about this. That's me too.

[sveumrules]

How does Ortiz get in on first ballot when a guy like Bagwell who (checks notes) was a better hitter, fielder and base runner than Ortiz has to wait until his 7th ballot?

 

It's not like its particularly close either: +137 BAT, +65 BSR, +159 DEF. Add it all up & Bagwell has almost a 30 WAR edge on Ortiz.

 

Sure, Ortiz's post season heroics give him the edge in the Fame department, but for me that isn't enough to cancel out that 30 WAR edge Bagwell had, or the six extra ballots Bagwell had to wait out before election.

 

Then you throw in that Ortiz's link to PEDs is much more direct than whatever rumors swirled around Bagwell & it makes even less sense.

[Opening Day]

If PED’s mean you are out, then Bonds, Clemens, and Ortiz are out. If PED’s are ok, then Bonds and Clemens are first ballot and Ortiz is still borderline in at best. Ortiz being a first ballot while two vastly better players are out, when all three did the same thing, is ridiculous. In fact, there is more concrete evidence of Ortiz (failed test) using than the two better players left out. Ortiz is a first ballot Hall of Media Favorites inductee.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If PED’s mean you are out, then Bonds, Clemens, and Ortiz are out. If PED’s are ok, then Bonds and Clemens are first ballot and Ortiz is still borderline in at best. Ortiz being a first ballot while two vastly better players are out, when all three did the same thing, is ridiculous. In fact, there is more concrete evidence of Ortiz (failed test) using than the two better players left out. Ortiz is a first ballot Hall of Media Favorites inductee.

 

Bingo. Ortiz generally comes off as a happy, affable dude, and has a feel-good story. Clemens and Bonds were surly pricks on the field, and as it turns out, off the field and following retirement as well. Should a Hall of Famer be judged on the content of their character? The never-ending, age-old rhetorical question ...

[CheeseheadInQC]

The commissioner's office gave the writers such a blatant out on Ortiz's test it almost felt like Manfred was campaigning for him as well.

[nate82]

I think Bonds and Clemens will be voted in when the committee meets in December. If Selig is in who resided as commissioner when the steroid era was happening then Bonds and Clemens need to be in no questions asked.

 

I believe this is how Bonds and Clemens will get in. Heck even LaRussa is in the Hall of Fame and he was the manager of the roid team and then had McGwire again on his team and he openly had the stuff sitting out in his locker right in front of everyone including LaRussa. I don't care what LaRussa says or has said on this he knew about it and didn't care. If Selig and LaRussa are good enough to be in the Hall of Fame then so are Bonds and Clemens.

 

Greg Maddux is on the committee and I believe he has advocated for Bonds to be in the Hall of Fame so there is at least 1 vote and I think they only need 15 out of 17 to get in. LaRussa is also on the committee and I think he will vote for both also. Should be really interesting come December but I expect at least Bonds to be named into the Hall of Fame and possibly Clemens.

[LouisEly]

If PED’s mean you are out, then Bonds, Clemens, and Ortiz are out. If PED’s are ok, then Bonds and Clemens are first ballot and Ortiz is still borderline in at best. Ortiz being a first ballot while two vastly better players are out, when all three did the same thing, is ridiculous. In fact, there is more concrete evidence of Ortiz (failed test) using than the two better players left out. Ortiz is a first ballot Hall of Media Favorites inductee.

Clemens never failed a test, his name was not on the affidavit for the Grimsley search warrant, and was acquitted of all charges of lying to Congress. And pretty much everyone who has accused Clemens of doing PEDs is a questionable character at best - every mention of Clemens in the Mitchell report was from McNamee.

 

Don't get me wrong, Clemens is a prick, but he hasn't failed a test nor has he been found guilty of lying.

[WV Brew]

Curt Schilling had a career WAR of 80.5, better than Tom Glavine and Carl Hubbel to name a couple in the HOF. He has been excluded for expressing political views the voters don't like. That, to me, is the worst offense by the voters. Politics should be left out. This is sports.

[DuWayne Steurer]

curt schilling had more going on than just political views. and I'll leave it at that.

[StearnsFTW]

Yeah, Schilling not being in is crazy to me too. If it's not politics I'd like to know what it is.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't think what Schilling has said can be classified as "politics."

[SRB]

If PED’s mean you are out, then Bonds, Clemens, and Ortiz are out. If PED’s are ok, then Bonds and Clemens are first ballot and Ortiz is still borderline in at best. Ortiz being a first ballot while two vastly better players are out, when all three did the same thing, is ridiculous. In fact, there is more concrete evidence of Ortiz (failed test) using than the two better players left out. Ortiz is a first ballot Hall of Media Favorites inductee.

Clemens never failed a test, his name was not on the affidavit for the Grimsley search warrant, and was acquitted of all charges of lying to Congress. And pretty much everyone who has accused Clemens of doing PEDs is a questionable character at best - every mention of Clemens in the Mitchell report was from McNamee.

 

Don't get me wrong, Clemens is a prick, but he hasn't failed a test nor has he been found guilty of lying.

 

Same is true of Barry Bonds. The media made him the poster child for steroids without acknowledging or understanding the quality of actual evidence against him. (I personally think he probably was using something, but to what extent is not clear. The mere fact that he bulked up as he got older and made a deliberate choice to change his physique is such nonsense "evidence.")