Packer 2021 Team Discussion 2.0

[LouisEly]

Even with a Rodgers trade and no Adams I think the Packers still have to make some cuts to get under the salary cap which means Z.Smith, P.Smith and Amos are more than likely gone if you also want to cut Bakhtiari.

Right now the Packers are about $40M over the 2022 cap.

 

Trading Rodgers pre-6/1 will result in $19.6M in 2022 cap savings. Here's the max they could save with each player:

 

Z. Smith - $15.3M

P. Smith - $13.7M

R. Cobb - $8.1M (post-6/1 release)

A. Amos - $7.9M

Lowry - $5.8M (post-6/1 release or trade)

B. Turner - $5.8M (post-6/1 release or trade)

K. King - $3M (post-6/1 release)

M. Crosby - $3.1M (post-6/1 release)

 

The total cap savings of those players is $62.7M ($82.3M including Rodgers), so they can cut Bakh but I don't see the point. Why "sell low" on Bakh? Love is going to need a good LT, and Bakh isn't going to have a significant impact, if any impact, on how many games they win. And as I said earlier, if the Packers suck and they don't have Rodgers, what FA is going to want to come here?

 

They can also extend Amos and Alexander and lower their $12M and $13.3M cap numbers significantly, so they could create space by extending those two along with P. Smith and possibly be able to get Rodgers and Adams back for one more run.

[PinaMadness]

It's good to know it's not just us idiot armchair quarterbacks who have never played a down of football since high school that realize this to be self evident.

 

 

[adambr2]

It's been almost 24 hours which I feel like is way too long to have taken to fire Maurice Drayton. This is not a thing that needs to wait til Monday.

[PinaMadness]

It's been almost 24 hours which I feel like is way too long to have taken to fire Maurice Drayton. This is not a thing that needs to wait til Monday.

 

I'm sure they just want to be respectful to him by waiting until tomorrow. I don't have a problem with it, as long as it indeed happens tomorrow. It will happen though. What happened last night, and really all season, is more inexcusable than what Pettine did in the championship game last year.

[adambr2]

At some point Matt LaFleur has to shoulder a big share of the blame for the playoff failures. In a lot of ways. He watched idly by as Maurice Drayton insisted that the special teams would get it done when it counted. He couldn't have been more wrong, and he and MLF both let the team down and the fans down. When you have every reason to fire a guy and stand by your man, you go down with that ship when that man fails. I don't mean that literally to say MLF should be fired (obviously Drayton should), but he bears every bit of the responsibility for the ST failures as much as Drayton does.

 

Aside from that, MLFs regular season successes are meaningless if his teams consistently fail in the playoffs. There's something to be said about coaches who routinely put together strong regular seasons only to be outclassed by better minds in the postseason. I'm not ready to put MLF in that category of coaches yet, but three years is a disturbing trend. The first year was understandable and even considered a success, last year was bothersome, and after yet another the pattern is pretty concerning. They had 3 weeks to rest and prepare for this game and they could not have come out looking flatter and less prepared in 2 out of 3 phases of the game. They should have been better.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

MLF is a young coach and it's pretty obvious that they did not think ST mattered. They can say otherwise all they want but it has been a bad unit for years. The roster construction alone is proof that they do not value that facet of the game. Maybe now they will, a year too late.

 

Oh and yeah, the coordinator should obviously be canned. Just not sure what doing it midyear would have done. Couldn't have been any worse though.

 

Honestly though this is really the first year I'd even describe as problematic as far as MLF goes. First year was a foregone conclusion and last year was a hard fought game with a good team. Last night was a complete debacle against a team they had no business losing to, who could not move the ball 20 yards, and the total inability to BLOCK ON KICKS cost them a season. It's inexcusable.

[CheezWizHed]

Aaron Rodgers is not a cold weather QB.

 

The game plan for AROD and Adams to play sandlot offense all day and forget everyone else was terrible.

 

The o-line configuration was questionable. Turner should've been RT with Nijman at LT. No idea why they kept trotting out Kelly. ("experience?")

 

Our ST woes are a befuddling mystery. I saw a lot of blame on the coordinator, MLF, Gute, etc... But this has been a problem for years and years...beyond all of them. Now, I'm not saying to not fire the coordinator... but I'm at a complete loss as to how this keeps happening. It isn't like MLF/Gute haven't been addressing things... just that it hasn't worked.

 

The second half offense looked like they were playing to not lose (prevent offense) and it worked as well as prevent defense normally works.

[HarveysWBs]

On special teams: if you recall back to 2019 when LaFleur wanted to build his staff, he was interested in Darren Rizzi for ST coordinator (at the time part of Gase’s staff in Miami as that ship was going down).

 

If you look up the news reports on that at the time, LaFleur had what was characterized as a great meeting with him but the org let him leave town without a deal. Speculation was that Rizzi was asking for the moon. Who was making the final call on coaching decisions then (and perhaps still even now)? Mark Murphy. Good call, there, dude.

 

Murphy isn’t getting enough heat, and this doesn’t excuse anything else being discussed, but Rizzi’s units have looked pretty sterling in New Orleans the last three years. Could have made a difference yesterday on some things that just looked like bad coaching.

[Fear The Chorizo]

They had 3 weeks to rest and prepare for this game and they could not have come out looking flatter and less prepared in 2 out of 3 phases of the game.

 

Kind of disagree they came out looking flat offensively - it was the only touchdown they scored all game. Unprepared in how they failed to adjust their offensive gameplan once San Francisco took some things away, sure.

 

They scored on their opening drive and were driving for more points when Lewis fumbled - after that, offensively they turtled a bit and failed to adjust at all when the 49ers took away alot of the underneath stuff and shaded coverage heavily to Adams. Some of that is on MLF, but as people have pointed out on some specific plays a chunk of this is on Rodgers as the game wore on. He didn't play well. The line didn't protect well, but wasn't the sole reason for numerous low/inaccurate throws and the fact the ball was constantly going to Adams and Jones down the stretch even with the 49ers doubling Adams. Rodgers looked like the 2019 version on Saturday night - the one that many people wondered if he was done being great and the career decline had started picking up steam, which more than justified drafting a quarterback in round 1 the following draft.

 

As for special teams, I just get more angry every time I think of how inept they truly were all season long and how nothing was done in earnest to correct the systemic problems aside from putting starters into the special teams coverage units to make up for bad play....and of course Dillon gets hurt on special teams and can't factor in the running game on a slick field when they need him the most offensively.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think the ST problems have more to do with how the Packers build a roster than the coach. Drayton compounded that with some truly unbelievable blocking alignments, but when you keep 4th TEs and extra OL, that is a spot for a backup LB/S who is not playing ST. That is the real difference. They have never prioritized guys like Nick Bellore, who built decade+ careers essentially only making a difference on ST. Edited January 24, 2022 by OldSchoolSnapper

[PeaveyFury]

 

The game plan for AROD and Adams to play sandlot offense all day and forget everyone else was terrible.

 

This has come up in the thread before as well so I wanted to pose the question- do we know if this was the actual game plan, or just what QB1 decided to do? It became apparent with Favre that the team & staff was ready to move on because he was doing what he wanted to do vs. what the team wanted him to do, especially in the playoffs. Is this a repeat of that situation? It sure looked like Rodgers fell into his rare but historically present bad habit of only throwing to a couple of guys he 'trusts'. I think there's at least a modest possibility that the game plan and what Rodgers chose to do didn't completely line up.

[PeaveyFury]

Who was making the final call on coaching decisions then (and perhaps still even now)? Mark Murphy. Good call, there, dude.

 

I know Murphy was at the top of the food chain for hiring MLF, but have there been any reports that he was involved in hiring MLF's staff?

[MrTPlush]

Packers 2022 Opening day starting QB:

 

60% Jordan Love, 10% Aaron Rodgers, 30% someone else. Those would be my current percentage chances.

 

The Packer burning bridges with Rodgers by drafting Love and then after years of waiting don't even start Love would be so....expected in this dumpster fire. lol

 

I don't think that happens...but man I would get one heck of a good laugh out of it.

[DuWayne Steurer]

If that's the case, and LaFleur didn't address it during the game, that's still on the coach. Or the coaching staff. To be looking at plays and their little blue tablets and saying "Aaron, we're seeing this is open here" "We're seeing a lot of XYZ and ABC"

 

I want to be clear (again) that I'm not saying a lot of the blame doesn't fall on Rodgers, but....

 

1) We don't know if the gameplan was "whip it around to Adams"

2) We don't know if that was just Rodgers doing his own thing

3) We don't know if the coaches addressed it with Aaron during the game or not (They should, if they didn't)

 

4) and most importantly, we know from having LaFleur here for 3 years now, he's not really going to share this information with us.

[Fear The Chorizo]

 

The game plan for AROD and Adams to play sandlot offense all day and forget everyone else was terrible.

 

This has come up in the thread before as well so I wanted to pose the question- do we know if this was the actual game plan, or just what QB1 decided to do? It became apparent with Favre that the team & staff was ready to move on because he was doing what he wanted to do vs. what the team wanted him to do, especially in the playoffs. Is this a repeat of that situation? It sure looked like Rodgers fell into his rare but historically present bad habit of only throwing to a couple of guys he 'trusts'. I think there's at least a modest possibility that the game plan and what Rodgers chose to do didn't completely line up.

 

I'm of the opinion that much of this is where Rodgers chose to go with the football, particularly once there were a couple drops by others and after the pass rush got home a few times. That being said, I don't get why you can't have some different play design to try and get something downfield open opposite the coverage drawn to Adams. Not having MVS hurt, and it was made even more painful because the line wasn't pass protecting well - both Lazard and Deguara were often lined up right off the tackles to help chip before even entering their routes, so there was really no other outside receiver who could stretch the field getting free releases off the line of scrimmage. San Fran's defense played pretty straight up in coverage everywhere but with Adams - they schemed and disguised whether a safety was providing help over the top or a LB/safety was helping out underneath, and they never had to shift their approach because it seemed like Rodgers/MLF spent most of the game trying to solve that riddle instead of looking at the rest of the field to move the ball. Lazard and Deguara should've played a much bigger factor.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

My concern level went up a lot when I saw MVS was inactive even though it wasn't surprising. Early in the game when the short stuff was dominant, it eased my worry a bit. But when that stopped, his absence was felt. He wouldn't have had to anything more than 3 catches for 48 yards. Just the idea that he could run around a bit would have helped.

 

I'll second that Rodgers looked his age for the first time I have seen. A lot about that game was similar to the 2007 Giants loss.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

My concern level went up a lot when I saw MVS was inactive even though it wasn't surprising. Early in the game when the short stuff was dominant, it eased my worry a bit. But when that stopped, his absence was felt. He wouldn't have had to anything more than 3 catches for 48 yards. Just the idea that he could run around a bit would have helped.

 

I'll second that Rodgers looked his age for the first time I have seen. A lot about that game was similar to the 2007 Giants loss.

 

Part of me wonders if the Packers were perhaps looking past the 49ers a bit with the decisions to hold Bahktiari and MVS out. Hindsight is 20/20, but in a low-scoring game decided by a last-second field goal, having your top O-lineman and fastest WR may just have made the difference.

[nate82]

Even with a Rodgers trade and no Adams I think the Packers still have to make some cuts to get under the salary cap which means Z.Smith, P.Smith and Amos are more than likely gone if you also want to cut Bakhtiari.

Right now the Packers are about $40M over the 2022 cap.

 

Trading Rodgers pre-6/1 will result in $19.6M in 2022 cap savings. Here's the max they could save with each player:

 

Z. Smith - $15.3M

P. Smith - $13.7M

R. Cobb - $8.1M (post-6/1 release)

A. Amos - $7.9M

Lowry - $5.8M (post-6/1 release or trade)

B. Turner - $5.8M (post-6/1 release or trade)

K. King - $3M (post-6/1 release)

M. Crosby - $3.1M (post-6/1 release)

 

The total cap savings of those players is $62.7M ($82.3M including Rodgers), so they can cut Bakh but I don't see the point. Why "sell low" on Bakh? Love is going to need a good LT, and Bakh isn't going to have a significant impact, if any impact, on how many games they win. And as I said earlier, if the Packers suck and they don't have Rodgers, what FA is going to want to come here?

 

They can also extend Amos and Alexander and lower their $12M and $13.3M cap numbers significantly, so they could create space by extending those two along with P. Smith and possibly be able to get Rodgers and Adams back for one more run.

 

Yeah I don't see why the Packers would cut Bakh it just doesn't make any sense the dead cap is more than his current cap. The Packers will need to clear enough cap room to fit some free agents in along with being able to sign their draft picks.

 

The Packers still need to make cuts or restructures its just that cutting Bakh doesn't make any sense for the Packers but if you want to do it you would have to do a lot of cap gymnastics to get it done. Also having a poor offensive line with any QB is a recipe for disaster for that QB's development. You could possibly lose one or more years of development from a QB with a poor offensive line either from injury or that QB picking up bad habits because of the poor offensive line play.

[PeaveyFury]

Part of me wonders if the Packers were perhaps looking past the 49ers a bit with the decisions to hold Bahktiari and MVS out.

 

The Packers have been caught on this before, so I don' think this is out of the realm of possibility. I guess you have to think their calc is that 100% of Kelly/Turner was better than 60% of Bakh, or whatever.... but it's possible they thought holding him out would get him from there to 80% and they gambled and lost.

[PeaveyFury]

On Bakh, I agree that it makes virtually no sense to cut him. But, based on how they structured his deal when signed last year, he's a super logical and easy restructure which would clear roughly $9mil at first glance. So I'd bet there's almost zero chance he's not a Packer next year, but I'd also bet there's almost zero chance he plays 2022 on his current deal/cap number.

[homer]

Who was making the final call on coaching decisions then (and perhaps still even now)? Mark Murphy. Good call, there, dude.

 

I know Murphy was at the top of the food chain for hiring MLF, but have there been any reports that he was involved in hiring MLF's staff?

 

I seem to recall something a few months ago that Murphy had a cap on how much assistant coaches could make. Might have been an Aaron Nagler comment.

 

Edit: Here's an article from 2019

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/09/silverstein-critics-see-cracks-green-bay-packers-new-management-structure/1142267001/

 

When it came to other assistant coaches, LaFleur wasn’t the sole decision-maker, sources said.

 

LaFleur was excited about hiring highly regarded Miami special teams coach Darren Rizzi, who was not returning to the Dolphins and had told the Packers he would come up for an interview but was not going to sign for less than three years and total of $4.5 million, a source said.

 

Rizzi was told to come. He and LaFleur hit it off in their interview, the source said. But when it came time to talk about a contract, the Packers offered Rizzi less than he was seeking and Rizzi felt he had been led astray.

 

He left town. The Packers eventually met his price a couple of days later, but by that time Rizzi had decided to pursue other opportunities. LaFleur tried to convince him to change his mind but had no success.

 

Murphy claims the Packers did not low-ball Rizzi and met his price before he left.

 

Rizzi ended up signing a three-year, $4.5 million deal with the New Orleans Saints.

[homer]

My concern level went up a lot when I saw MVS was inactive even though it wasn't surprising. Early in the game when the short stuff was dominant, it eased my worry a bit. But when that stopped, his absence was felt. He wouldn't have had to anything more than 3 catches for 48 yards. Just the idea that he could run around a bit would have helped.

 

I'll second that Rodgers looked his age for the first time I have seen. A lot about that game was similar to the 2007 Giants loss.

 

Yeah it's a shame he was hurt so much this year. I really thought he was ready to take a big step forward. Once he recovered from that mid season injury he had a run of 4 games where he averaged 4/72.8 per game.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think the ST problems have more to do with how the Packers build a roster than the coach. Drayton compounded that with some truly unbelievable blocking alignments, but when you keep 4th TEs and extra OL, that is a spot for a backup LB/S who is not playing ST. That is the real difference. They have never prioritized guys like Nick Bellore, who built decade+ careers essentially only making a difference on ST.

 

Definitely something to this - There are multiple long snappers and core special teams players on other teams that were once on the Packers and let go because they weren't capable backups/developmental starters on offense or defense, but wound up making nice careers on special teams.

[RobertR]

 

The game plan for AROD and Adams to play sandlot offense all day and forget everyone else was terrible.

 

This has come up in the thread before as well so I wanted to pose the question- do we know if this was the actual game plan, or just what QB1 decided to do? It became apparent with Favre that the team & staff was ready to move on because he was doing what he wanted to do vs. what the team wanted him to do, especially in the playoffs. Is this a repeat of that situation? It sure looked like Rodgers fell into his rare but historically present bad habit of only throwing to a couple of guys he 'trusts'. I think there's at least a modest possibility that the game plan and what Rodgers chose to do didn't completely line up.

 

I'm 100% sure that the game plan didn't call for Rodgers to ignore his progressions.

[PeaveyFury]

 

The game plan for AROD and Adams to play sandlot offense all day and forget everyone else was terrible.

 

This has come up in the thread before as well so I wanted to pose the question- do we know if this was the actual game plan, or just what QB1 decided to do? It became apparent with Favre that the team & staff was ready to move on because he was doing what he wanted to do vs. what the team wanted him to do, especially in the playoffs. Is this a repeat of that situation? It sure looked like Rodgers fell into his rare but historically present bad habit of only throwing to a couple of guys he 'trusts'. I think there's at least a modest possibility that the game plan and what Rodgers chose to do didn't completely line up.

 

I'm 100% sure that the game plan didn't call for Rodgers to ignore his progressions.

 

Yeah, that's where I'm at too. Like I and many have said, this one reminds me all too much of 2007, where the QB indicated that he was going to do what he wanted and not what the play called for. That may work in the regular season against the Bears, but it didn't work in the cold against playoff teams.