Packer 2021 Team Discussion 2.0

[PeaveyFury]

 

Personally, I don't think any of that should factor in to MVP.

 

I agree to a point, but when you have two guys (Brady and Rodgers) who could potentially win the award, and one has been a distraction to his team based on what he has done, or has been doing in his personal life (the vax drama, and the "I might not play this year tantrums) then I think it plays into the final decision. Does a true MVP (Most Valuable Player) act like that and put extra stress on the team for his ridiculous actions?

 

It would be one thing if Rodgers was heads and tails above Brady in stats, leadership, etc, but that isn't the case. In fact, I don't think there is a single player in the entire NFL that provides more presence and leadership than Tom Brady.

 

I can fully understand why a voter would take the Rodgers drama and have it be a strike against him. His childish behaviors did in fact cause distraction to the team, which in my eyes, if you have 2 guys to pick from, neither a cut above the other, then the Rodgers crap has to work against him

 

imo

 

And I, personally, would weigh some of the Brady stuff with regard to telling the opposing sideline to bleep off and throwing things around when losing negatively. But, Brady is given a pass because he wins, even though he's displayed poor sportsmanship at times. Why shouldn't that factor in if the Rodgers stuff does?

[CheezWizHed]

 

What makes you think he is a "bad person" based on his treatment of his family?

 

To be fair, that's not what was said. What was said was that we don't know if his behind-the-scenes situation with his family has stuff in it that would place him in that category.

 

I guess I tend to trend toward the thought that anyone that treats their mother like crap save for those abused by said mother certainly COULD fall in that category, but again, I don't know anything beyond that he's estranged from every member of his immediate family, which seems beyond abnormal.

 

Based on this, everyone in the NFL could be a bad person because we don't know their behind-the-scenes situation with any of their families (and some are truly bad behind the scenes). It is just because he is estranged from his family that it even gets brought up. Not sure it is fair to judge him without knowing the actual reason or situation.

 

Still nothing that comes remotely close to detracting from an MVP award.

[homer]

 

You're going to die on that hill?

 

Brady allowing AB to live with him, and try to point him in the right direction will have no bearing on his MVP status. Not in this world or any other one.

 

You might be right, he may not give a rip about him personally, but a lot of sources have reported that they are/were good friends. If they weren't friends on a personal level, I doubt Brady invites him to live in his home. I can't for sure say that he would care one way or the other, but neither can you.

 

I think you are reaching on this one.

 

If it wasn't for Tom Brady, AB would not have joined the Bucs. Who has been the biggest distraction for the Bucs this season? Is AB more or less of a distraction than Aaron Rodgers? That's all I'm saying. It'd be silly to use that as a knock against him in MVP voting just as it's silly to think Rodgers did anything off the field that hurt his team.

[CheezWizHed]

With a pseudo-bye week this week and a real bye week next week... these discussions could drag on pretty long!

[PeaveyFury]

 

Still nothing that comes remotely close to detracting from an MVP award.

 

Never said anything of the sort, for the record, as I agree.

[tmwiese55]

To be fair, there's plenty of legit reasons to ditch ones' family. My remembrance way back when it started is the little brother was the one in the wrong. But obviously it seems Aaron is one to be stubborn and hold a grudge so not exactly the easiest guy to make up with. That said, there also hasn't been any headlines on this topic for years now (that I can remember) so do we even know if it's been resolved or not? Maybe they have made up, and since part of Rodgers beef back then was basically being too public off his name, it would make sense to keep it to themselves if they had.

 

Still, none of this should have any factor in MVP.

 

Another thing that pops in my head through the last 9 months with him is think how much we've all thought or complained about players/coaches giving bs coachspeak cliché answers, basically just saying what they're supposed to say. So we've all thought "man wish someone would just take off the filter and be real." Well, that's what he's been doing and now folks are mad about it. I think he's come off badly on plenty of stuff he's said, but I appreciate what he's doing.

[OldHeidelberg]

I know someone mentioned it above but didn’t really realize until just reading an article that Arkush is the “NFL expert” they have on every Packer radio pregame. I was never sure if it was just one guy or they rotated it but should make Sunday’s pregame show a little more interesting.

[harrydalton]

Hub Arkush is a Chicago guy and a big Bears homer at heart. He's been on Packer pregame probably because he's Wayne Larrivee's buddy since Wayne's days as Bears radio announcer.

 

He owned Pro Football Weekly and is a respectable NFL commentator. Every so often his love of the Bears overwhelms him.

[TURBO]

 

You're going to die on that hill?

 

Brady allowing AB to live with him, and try to point him in the right direction will have no bearing on his MVP status. Not in this world or any other one.

 

You might be right, he may not give a rip about him personally, but a lot of sources have reported that they are/were good friends. If they weren't friends on a personal level, I doubt Brady invites him to live in his home. I can't for sure say that he would care one way or the other, but neither can you.

 

I think you are reaching on this one.

 

If it wasn't for Tom Brady, AB would not have joined the Bucs. Who has been the biggest distraction for the Bucs this season? Is AB more or less of a distraction than Aaron Rodgers? That's all I'm saying. It'd be silly to use that as a knock against him in MVP voting just as it's silly to think Rodgers did anything off the field that hurt his team.

 

R-E-A-C-H-I-N-G!

[PeaveyFury]

R-E-A-C-H-I-N-G!

 

Perhaps glasses come in many different colors?

[TURBO]

AB's distraction has nothing to do with MVP candidate Tom Brady. Nothing at all, zilch, nada.

 

It's preposterous to compare anything involving Brady wanting AB in Tampa to the nonsense Rodgers put his team through this season.

 

Not even the same ballpark, zip code, country, world, or solar system...

[CheezWizHed]

 

Still nothing that comes remotely close to detracting from an MVP award.

 

Never said anything of the sort, for the record, as I agree.

 

That was the beginning point of my post of him "not being a bad person" where you started debating that he might possibly be a bad person because maybe he doesn't love his momma.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

AB's distraction has nothing to do with MVP candidate Tom Brady. Nothing at all, zilch, nada.

 

It's preposterous to compare anything involving Brady wanting AB in Tampa to the nonsense Rodgers put his team through this season.

 

Not even the same ballpark, zip code, country, world, or solar system...

 

I think you're creating a reach where there isn't one. Brady got him on the team. It's a totally valid point. And it's not like he vouched for Donald Driver. He was a known lunatic, whom Arians said "would be gone with one mistake," which turned out to be a lie, most likely because of Tom Brady.

Edited January 7, 2022 by OldSchoolSnapper

[MrTPlush]

Aaron Rodgers is apparently this massive distraction. Buuuut yet no players seem to care at all, I don't think there was a single anonymous complaint and many were just openly backing him.

 

And you know, they are 13-3 despite many major injuries and now have double bye weeks.

 

Distraction? I mean, seems unlikely. If he was a distraction, it was a meaningless one. I think it is pretty overblown. The entire thing happened after the season and then before training camp. No player really cares what happens in that timeframe. They are all chilling in Malibu on the beach just like Rodgers was.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Something else needs to be brought up here. The discussion keeps suggesting that Rodgers held some press conference in May to air grievances. That didn't happen. The spat was private until it was leaked to the media and he basically said nothing at all until he showed up to training camp. Just reading the last few pages one would think he was providing daily Twitter updates throughout the summer. So I'm not seeing what exactly he "put his team through." Other than back-to-back #1 seeds.

 

What exactly is the source of this "distraction" other than sports writers claiming there was a "distraction"? If they can go 26-6 while distracted, boy, I'd love to see them focused.

[PeaveyFury]

 

Still nothing that comes remotely close to detracting from an MVP award.

 

Never said anything of the sort, for the record, as I agree.

 

That was the beginning point of my post of him "not being a bad person" where you started debating that he might possibly be a bad person because maybe he doesn't love his momma.

 

My point was that it’s not mutually exclusive to say that he may be both a “bad person” AND deserving of winning the MVP.

[PeaveyFury]

Something else needs to be brought up here. The discussion keeps suggesting that Rodgers held some press conference in May to air grievances. That didn't happen. The spat was private until it was leaked to the media and he basically said nothing at all until he showed up to training camp. Just reading the last few pages one would think he was providing daily Twitter updates throughout the summer. So I'm not seeing what exactly he "put his team through." Other than back-to-back #1 seeds.

 

To be fair, it’s almost universally accepted that those leaks came from his camp & people close to him.

[TURBO]

If Rodgers was on any other team, you would understand the "distraction" he caused the team.

 

Since he is on the Packers, no one is able to see the situation clearly at this time, but Packer fans felt a lot differently when the crap came to light this summer. Lots of people had a lot of contempt for the man. Time has passed, and most have forgiven him (winning will do that), but to say he wasn't a distraction to the team throughout that situation as well as the vax stuff is just blind homerism.

 

It's cool, it's part of fandom, but if situations were reversed, and Brady did what Rodgers did ("I might not play this season, I might leave, etc", vax stuff) you would all see it a bit differently.

 

I mean, I'm not going to win this fight on a Packer board, and it's time for me to bow out, so we'll just wait to see what the voters decide.

 

I won't be surprised, or disappointed no matter what they decide. They both probably deserve it, but it surely isn't an open and shut case, and regardless of what the opinion is here, some of the voters will consider the stuff Rodgers did this year when they vote. Will it be enough to change votes, we shall see.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

If Rodgers was on any other team, you would understand the "distraction" he caused the team.

 

Since he is on the Packers, no one is able to see the situation clearly at this time, but Packer fans felt a lot differently when the crap came to light this summer. Lots of people had a lot of contempt for the man. Time has passed, and most have forgiven him (winning will do that), but to say he wasn't a distraction to the team throughout that situation as well as the vax stuff is just blind homerism.

 

It's cool, it's part of fandom, but if situations were reversed, and Brady did what Rodgers did ("I might not play this season, I might leave, etc", vax stuff) you would all see it a bit differently.

 

I mean, I'm not going to win this fight on a Packer board, and it's time for me to bow out, so we'll just wait to see what the voters decide.

 

I won't be surprised, or disappointed no matter what they decide. They both probably deserve it, but it surely isn't an open and shut case, and regardless of what the opinion is here, some of the voters will consider the stuff Rodgers did this year when they vote. Will it be enough to change votes, we shall see.

 

Because you are constantly conflating two things. Frankly I think Rodgers is a pretty annoying guy with his tooty frooty zen stuff, grudge holding, and seemingly thinks he is some enlightened being.

 

But you keep bringing up this word "distraction" without any proof. I mean, is it even a stretch to say that AB has been a bigger distraction, stripping his clothes off on the field, during a drive, than anything the Packers endured this year? All the drama seemed to stop the second the season began. I've literally heard nothing but teammate after teammate profess their love for Rodgers. Then they won 13 games.

 

The vax crap is the biggest nothingburger of it all. There are a bunch of unvaccinated players in GB and in the league. A bunch of vaccinated guys missed games. I believe Adams was vaccinated, wasn't he? I really don't think a single player on the team cares about his vax status.

 

Where is this distraction? Other than in op-ed columns by people nowhere close to the team?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

For the record, do I think Brady may win MVP? Yes, 100%. Do I think he should? No. I think he IS a better leader than Rodgers, where I differ with Turbo is that there isn't a clear separation between their play. Rodgers has been better, a lot better.

[TURBO]

For the record, do I think Brady may win MVP? Yes, 100%. Do I think he should? No. I think he IS a better leader than Rodgers, where I differ with Turbo is that there isn't a clear separation between their play. Rodgers has been better, a lot better.

 

Rodgers has not been a LOT better, it just isn't so.

 

Brady has 1000 more yards than Rodgers, and 5 more TDs.

 

Yes, he obviously threw the ball more, he had to with so many injuries to their RBs, plus throwing the ball is a big part of their offense. Also, with so many receiving weapons (when healthy) it makes sense he threw the ball so much more, which also accounts for Brady having so many more INT. It goes without saying, if you throw the ball more, you have the opportunity to throw more interceptions.

 

I agree with you, Brady or Rodgers may win the MVP, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. I'm sure both players would rather have another Lombardi than another MVP award.

[OldHeidelberg]

It's not over, Vegas seems to think there is still about a 20% chance Brady wins it which isn't nothing. But if there is a Rodgers is a Jerk vote it may not end up in Brady's tally as voters may not want to explain that and will just say no QB deserved it and vote for Kupp or Taylor. There are probably a few guys who don't want to vote for Brady unless they have to as well. I don't think Rodgers plays this week but if he does and throws a pick and Brady throws 5 more TD's that could still swing a few votes but it's pretty hard to get past having the bye while Brady doesn't. Even if you concede the stats are comparable that is a clear tiebreaker.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Sorry, the injury thing is just a waste of breath. Frankly, laughable to even bring that up as something that should give Brady a leg up. Rodgers has dealt with far more, and consistently all season. Not to mention that Brady is without his best WR because he threw him an ambulance ball.

 

Despite that, he has been more efficient than Brady by any measure. Brady has compiled more yards and TDs by sheer volume. Rodgers has two backs that have combined for ~350 carries. He has a QB rating 11 points higher. He has edged him in QBR. He's clinched HFA with a week to spare (despite missing a game they lost) and has thrown one INT since October 10.

 

He's better.

[Fear The Chorizo]

For context, Brady also threw the ball almost 100 more times than Rodgers last season for roughly 400 more yards with the same amount of games played - with a much healthier stable of running backs at TB's disposal...their offense and his quarterback play make him a high volume passer. They didn't change anything with their offensive approach this year because a few running backs got injured.

 

GB hasn't had anything close to their starting offensive line in tact all season long - that's the position grouping most critical to passing game success with a veteran quarterback. TB maybe had their center knicked up and a guard miss a game or two, but their line has been remarkably healthy. As OSS states in a post he beat me to, the injury argument is firmly in Rodgers' corner of the MVP debate between him and TB12.

[BillScottCanRake]

Let's compare Rodgers and Brady by rate stats instead of counting stats. Brady has 169 more attempts, so he should have more counting stats.

 

Completion Percentage:

Rodgers: 68.8 (4th)

Brady: 66.9 (t-13th)

 

Touchdown Rate:

Rodgers: 6.8% (leads the NFL)

Brady: 5.9% (4th)

 

Interception Rate:

Rodgers: .8% (leads the NFL)

Brady: 1.8% (t-9th)

 

Yards per Attempt:

Rodgers: 7.8 yards (t-5th)

Brady: 7.3 yards (12th)

 

Adjusted Yards Per Attempt:

Rodgers: 8.8 (2nd)

Brady: 7.7 (t-8th)

 

Adjusted Net Passing Yards per Attempt:

Rodgers: 7.99 (leads the NFL)

Brady: 7.27 (5th)

 

Yards per Completion:

Rodgers: 11.3 (10th)

Brady: 10.9 (16th)

 

Passer Rating:

Rodgers: 111.1 (leads the NFL)

Brady: 100.5 (8th)

 

QBR:

Rodgers: 79.9 (leads the NFL)

Brady: 66.7 (2nd)

 

Sack Rate:

Rodgers: 5.0 (10th)

Brady: 3.0 (leads the NFL)

 

Looking at all the rate statistics, Rodgers has been better, significantly so in some, less so in others. Brady does a better job not getting sacked (best in the league), but in every other area Rodgers is more efficient. Rodgers leads the league in 5 different rate/efficiency stats to Brady's 1. Rodgers it top five in 8 rate/efficiency stats to 4 for Brady.

 

If we want to have a little fun, let's compare Rodgers' and Brady's counting stats per 513 and 682 attempts.

 

513 Attempts:

Rodgers: 352/513 68.8 3,977 YARDS 35 TD 4 INT

Brady: 343/513 66.9 3,754 YARDS 30 TD 9 INT

 

682 Attempts:

Rodgers: 468/682 68.8 5,287 YARDS 47 TD 5 INT

Brady: 456/682 66.9 4,990 YARDS 40 TD 12 INT

 

EDIT: Fixed a few numbers I transcribed incorrectly.