Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]

[timpep]

The skill level of today’s players is so much lower today than even 10-15 years ago.

 

You think players in general are worse at the game than they were 10-15 years ago? I'd love your reasoning on this one.

[TURBO]

The skill level of today’s players is so much lower today than even 10-15 years ago.

 

You think players in general are worse at the game than they were 10-15 years ago? I'd love your reasoning on this one.

 

 

Yeah, it's probably actually opposite of what he said to be honest.

[Thurston Fluff]

If today's players could bunt the extreme shifts wouldn't exist. That would be an example of a skill today's players don't have that players 20 years ago did. I don't know if it's a skill that they don't develop or if it's one they don't look for when looking for players but it's pretty obviously not something today's player does like yesteryear. FWIW I think it's also something that's going to come into vogue once again. As is hitting the other way, moving players over, stealing bases and maybe even hitting for average. Just because baseball went 3TO for a couple decades doesn't mean it's going to be that way forever. I don't think we have to change a bunch of rules to make it that way either. As pitching and defense evolves hitting is going to have to change to keep up.

[DuWayne Steurer]

20 - 30 years ago, every pitcher on a staff didn't throw 97+. Bunting is hard when every pitcher is throwing 97 with movement. There's this idea that guys should just bunt. Even if you're proficient at bunting, just laying one down wherever you want is difficult when you have a never ending army of guys coming out of the pen who have the stuff that we see nowadays.

 

Kolten Wong is a proficient bunter, and came up the other night and popped one up to the catcher.

 

The other thing is you're giving up an at bat for a whatever % chance to at most get one base. I don't want to change rules, I'd hate to get rid of the shift, and I think baseball needs to change, but I don't think bunting is the way offenses need to go about it.

[TURBO]

I'll give you bunting, but there are reasons for that as well (which RoCo outlined above)

 

What other skills are the players of yesteryear better than today's players?

 

The game has changed so much, I think saying that they were better or worse decades ago just isn't accurate.

[rickh150]

The skill level of today’s players is so much lower today than even 10-15 years ago.

 

You think players in general are worse at the game than they were 10-15 years ago? I'd love your reasoning on this one.

 

 

Yeah, it's probably actually opposite of what he said to be honest.

 

 

Yount said in the booth something like this a few years back… if he had to see 95 nightly, he might just be a .230 hitter.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

Yount said in the booth something like this a few years back… if he had to see 95 nightly, he might just be a .230 hitter.

 

 

I think he was being nice (to a degree).

 

Hitting against that kind of speed and movement is definitely dragging batting averages down (as we are seeing). If guys like Molitor, Yount, Brett, Boggs, were playing now, they'd still be the good hitters that they were, comparatively against their current peers. Of that, I have little doubt.

 

A guy like Wade Boggs might strike out 60 - 70 times a season instead of the 40-50 or so we were used to seeing from him back in the 80's, but he'd still be the type of guy we'd say "he makes good contact and carries a good average". IMO of course.

[sixtolezcano16]

The skill level of today’s players is so much lower today than even 10-15 years ago.

 

You think players in general are worse at the game than they were 10-15 years ago? I'd love your reasoning on this one.

 

You have players that absolutely can’t hit the other way. My goodness, how many time did I hear someone complain that Avi could never go the other way when they almost had 4 infielder on that side of the field. Base running was much more of an art back then aS well. Same as BA and OBP.

[timpep]

The skill level of today’s players is so much lower today than even 10-15 years ago.

 

You think players in general are worse at the game than they were 10-15 years ago? I'd love your reasoning on this one.

 

You have players that absolutely can’t hit the other way. My goodness, how many time did I hear someone complain that Avi could never go the other way when they almost had 4 infielder on that side of the field. Base running was much more of an art back then aS well. Same as BA and OBP.

 

I would disagree entirely amount obp. Batting average is lower because the game had changed and people started realizing walking a ton and hitting bombs was just as good as hitting .300. The base running.. I agree people take less risks, but again, it's because someone stealing 40 bases and getting caught 15 times is actually a negative. Players probably could try to hit the other way, but again, out simply doesn't work as often as trying to pull it hard, probably didn't back then either, but statisticians hadn't figured it out yet.

 

Is the game different? Yes.

Less enjoyable to watch? Arguably.

Players worse? No, just different skill sets making the money.

 

I'd accept an argument that "the stat guys" have overcorrected and we'll see a slight shift back, but that's just the game as it always has been.

[Patrick425]

Any other season seat holders get the residual of the playoff ticket deposit returned yet?

[torts]

Look, if teams like tampa and Kansas City and Cleveland can make the world series, there is zero reason Milwaukee can't also. I always hold out hope that this is the year, and if other small market/payroll franchises can do it, so can Milwaukee

[TURBO]

Look, if teams like tampa and Kansas City and Cleveland can make the world series, there is zero reason Milwaukee can't also. I always hold out hope that this is the year, and if other small market/payroll franchises can do it, so can Milwaukee

 

 

but how has that worked out in the last 40 years?

 

I mean, it's been since 1982 that we made that trip to the WS.

[torts]

Look, if teams like tampa and Kansas City and Cleveland can make the world series, there is zero reason Milwaukee can't also. I always hold out hope that this is the year, and if other small market/payroll franchises can do it, so can Milwaukee

 

 

but how has that worked out in the last 40 years?

 

I mean, it's been since 1982 that we made that trip to the WS.

 

I mean... I dont care about 1982? I dont see why that matters, the league is not the same as it was 40 years ago. baseball has expanded, the brewers have switched leagues. if in the expanded, reshuffled league, teams like Tampa, KC and Cleveland have made it, the Brewers have just as likely of a shot.

[TURBO]

Look, if teams like tampa and Kansas City and Cleveland can make the world series, there is zero reason Milwaukee can't also. I always hold out hope that this is the year, and if other small market/payroll franchises can do it, so can Milwaukee

 

 

but how has that worked out in the last 40 years?

 

I mean, it's been since 1982 that we made that trip to the WS.

 

I mean... I dont care about 1982? I dont see why that matters, the league is not the same as it was 40 years ago. baseball has expanded, the brewers have switched leagues. if in the expanded, reshuffled league, teams like Tampa, KC and Cleveland have made it, the Brewers have just as likely of a shot.

 

82 doesn't matter, I was giving your post some context. We haven't been in the WS since 1982, something is wrong with that. It matters because you are hanging your hat on 3 small market teams that had some success against the odds. That surely doesn't mean that all small market teams will see that same success.

 

If the current system is set up so that small market teams "might" make the WS every 40 years or so, then your positive outlook becomes a little sad.

 

I hope KC enjoyed their little run, because there is a chance they never sniff the WS again.

 

What TB does is just crazy, but somehow they find ways.

 

Is Cleveland considered a small market team? I guess I've never considered them small market...

[OldSchoolSnapper]

There are a lot of large market teams that have also quite simply drafted a lot better than Milwaukee, particularly when it comes to offense. We can make lots of noise about the uneven playing field and it is valid, but for all the spending the Dodgers have done they have also drafted incredibly well and been an overall very well-run team.

 

And yes CLE is small market.

[torts]

orts"]Look, if teams like tampa and Kansas City and Cleveland can make the world series, there is zero reason Milwaukee can't also. I always hold out hope that this is the year, and if other small market/payroll franchises can do it, so can Milwaukee

 

 

but how has that worked out in the last 40 years?

 

I mean, it's been since 1982 that we made that trip to the WS.

 

I mean... I dont care about 1982? I dont see why that matters, the league is not the same as it was 40 years ago. baseball has expanded, the brewers have switched leagues. if in the expanded, reshuffled league, teams like Tampa, KC and Cleveland have made it, the Brewers have just as likely of a shot.

 

82 doesn't matter, I was giving your post some context. We haven't been in the WS since 1982, something is wrong with that. It matters because you are hanging your hat on 3 small market teams that had some success against the odds. That surely doesn't mean that all small market teams will see that same success.

 

If the current system is set up so that small market teams "might" make the WS every 40 years or so, then your positive outlook becomes a little sad.

 

I hope KC enjoyed their little run, because there is a chance they never sniff the WS again.

 

What TB does is just crazy, but somehow they find ways.

 

Is Cleveland considered a small market team? I guess I've never considered them small market...

 

The league is pretty different than it was in 1982, so I don't think it's fair to say it takes 40 years to do whatever. There are 4 more teams that are drafting and signing talent, which has ripple effects to everyone else and who they draft/sign. Look at the last ~20 years since the last expansion and the move to the NL. While they haven't made the world series, they've made the playoffs and won the division a handful of times, which is on par with most other small market teams. I don't think things are that bad for the franchise

[damuelle]

If the Braves had walked Cain (to try to force Freddy Peralta out of the game) and Counsell had had Peralta hit anyway (thinking that maximizing All-Star innings would give us our best chance to win), Freddy would have been up with the bases loaded and nobody out in the 5th inning of that 0-0 Game 3. Would you then have had Freddy:

 

A) Bunt - “safety squeeze”, with Urias running on ground ball contact from 3rd base

B) Swing away

C) Do nothing and K

D) None of the above?

 

Note: Kolten Wong was on deck and Willy Adames was in the hole. We were facing 23-year old RHP Ian Anderson.

[rickh150]

If the Braves had walked Cain (to try to force Freddy Peralta out of the game) and Counsell had had Peralta hit anyway (thinking that maximizing All-Star innings would give us our best chance to win), Freddy would have been up with the bases loaded and nobody out in the 5th inning of that 0-0 Game 3. Would you then have had Freddy:

 

A) Bunt - “safety squeeze”, with Urias running on ground ball contact from 3rd base

B) Swing away

C) Do nothing and K

D) None of the above?

 

Note: Kolten Wong was on deck and Willy Adames was in the hole. We were facing 23-year old RHP Ian Anderson.

 

I had no problem pulling Peralta. Even after the fact, it was worth the try for runs. We had six runs in four games, getting shut out twice. He hasn’t been going deep in games lately, either. I had more issues with Burnes and Hader in Game 4.

[damuelle]

Lots of permutations: Braves could have walked Cain to set up the force play and try to get Peralta out of the game, Brewers could have pinch hit for Cain (who’d just crashed into the wall) to get a lefty against Anderson (even better, the switch hitting Escobar), Cain could have bunted to maximize chance of getting 1 run (likely giving up chance at big inning), Peralta could have hit or bunted or stood like a statue, we could have used Escobar or Jace as Freddy’s pinch hitter instead of Vogelbach… This is all part of what makes baseball fun. It’s just more fun when you win.

[torts]

Brewers lost to the NL world series team, the trend continues

[BuckyBrewer61]

The Braves are further proof that the goal of any franchise should be to get in the playoffs consistently - especially one like the Brewers who, even if you really do "go for it," would still be unlikely to be able to build a roster 1-26 that is clearly better than the large markets.

 

Once you're in, legitimately every team has a shot. Sure the best teams has the best odds of winning it all, but those odds are far less insurmountable than in the NBA, NFL, etc. You're more likely to reach/win a World Series with a decent team making 10 playoff appearances than if you have the best team making just 1 or 2. Recent history is littered with pennant and World Series champions that were wild cards and/or had the 3rd/4th/5th best record in their league.

[Thurston Fluff]

So much for all the arguments for being the second best team so we don't have to face the mighty Dodgers in the NLDS. We ended up facing the toughest team to beat first. Perhaps in the future we should stop worrying about facing a particular team and focus on how ours is playing.

[adambr2]

So much for all the arguments for being the second best team so we don't have to face the mighty Dodgers in the NLDS. We ended up facing the toughest team to beat first. Perhaps in the future we should stop worrying about facing a particular team and focus on how ours is playing.

 

I think there was definitely a sufficient amount of angst that existed for how we were playing in September.

[FidoMcCokefiend]

 

I loved that 78 team too. That was my first full year after finishing grad school. So, armed with a full time job and no real obligations I think I went to about 35 games.

 

The first one was the second game of the season sitting in the bleachers with the temperature about 35 degrees. After the lopsided 11-3 win on Opening Day we had high hopes, but the Orioles scored 3 in the top of the first. Then the Brewers answered with 3 singles and a 3 run HR from Hisle to go ahead 4-3. Before we could settle down they loaded the bases and Thomas hit a grand slam. 8 runs and nobody out in the first inning on the way to a 16-3 win. Molitor hit his first career HR that day too.

 

So, 11-3, 16-3, and 13-5 wins to start the season.

 

Those were the days.

 

My family had a tradition of going to the 2nd home game. We did that pretty consistently 77 - 87. (Dad loathed huge crowds, traffic getting out, etc) No one went to the 2nd game, tickets were easy to come by, better seats.

 

My most memorable was 1980. We already knew we were going to game 2 on Saturday against the Red Sox. Dad finds out the night before the opener that he is going with a client to opening day. He's giving me the grumble/grumble he hates crowds, will take him an hour to get home, etc. stuff. I was a pouty 10 year old that I didn't get to go with him. Game 1 of course ends with a Lezcano walk off Grand Slam. I'm pissed that I didn't get to see anything that cool!

 

But, Saturday AM we jump in the VW bug. Tailgate in the AM, playing catch in the parking lot, me and my sisters could all sit in the trunk of the Bug to eat, listening to pregame on a transistor radio. Brewers jump out to 2-0 lead heading to the bottom of the 2nd. Then they proceed to put up a 9 spot including 2 grand slams (Cooper, then Money) to go up 11-0. At the time the 4th team ever to hit 2 GS in one inning. Still only 8 teams total that have done that. Maybe not as exciting as a walkoff grand slam, but still pretty cool and easily one of my most memorable in person games.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

So much for all the arguments for being the second best team so we don't have to face the mighty Dodgers in the NLDS. We ended up facing the toughest team to beat first. Perhaps in the future we should stop worrying about facing a particular team and focus on how ours is playing.

 

I don't think who the fans worry about playing matters one iota.