2021-10-12 (NLDS Game #4): Brewers (Lauer) at Braves (Morton) [Brewers lose, 5-4 -- Freeman’s 8th inning HR off Hader breaks tie, and hearts]

[umphrey]

Someone mentions trading Yelich every couple days like it's a real thing that could actually happen. Dude is 190 million dollars of negative value. The best, realistic, and only thing the Brewers can do right now is hope he takes the winter to get his mind and body right, see if he can even become like an .850 OPS dude for a few seasons going forward (doubt it, but maybe?) and be a semi-productive guy while they still have the trio of ace pitchers under team control.

 

Don’t squash my dream! The Yankees will take him, right? They have money, he would like New York.

[Jopal78]

Nope. Counsell got outmanaged today and yesterday period. First guessing all of it all day long. Bottom line he did not help the cause today at all. Is he a good manager sure. Doesn't mean he was good this series. Hitting Yelich three is indefensible.

 

They scored 6 runs across four games. That has nothing to do with the manager, and is the main reason they lost. If anything Counsell got desperate and abandoned “pitching in defense” in Game 4 when he pinch hit Vogelbach for Peralta.

 

The Brewers offense gave the pitchers no margin for error in two of the games, and tonight the Braves capitalized on their chances when they got them and the Brewers hitters didn’t; plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the manager.

[rickh150]

The Brewers have to sit down this offseason and come up with a plan of how to fix the offense with the dh coming on board the pitching is going to be impacted. You are going to have to score more runs. More consistent ab. Urias and Adames and Wong are good to go. Everyone else is under evaluation.

 

Gotta believe Rowdy is there too. The infield is set.

[Bulldogboy]

I think a lot of the blame should be placed at the feet of Craig Counsell. The entire final two weeks, or so, of the regular season was a giant dumpster fire. It started by losing two on the road to the Tigers. We took two of three from the Cubs, but they'd had a giant fire sale, getting rid of Rizzo, Bryant and Baez.

 

We faced the Cardinals and the Dodgers ten times in that finishing stretch, and went 1-9.

 

The narrative I saw over and over on social media was, "well, they're locked in at the #3 spot in the playoffs. They can't improve their playoff seeding, so it makes sense to rest some guys."

 

No. These guys are professional athletes, conditioned to play a 162 game season. You don't limp into the playoffs. You keep playing hard until the season is done, they you go into the playoffs playing good baseball.

 

We didn't. Losing Williams to a colossally stupid broken hand only compounded things.

 

This team is not mentally strong. Neither is our manager. Counsell just makes too many questionable decisions in high leverage situations. Putting our third string catcher in to pinch hit, with Tyrone Taylor available, was just one. Taking Woodruff out after 12 pitches to put Hader in for the bottom of the 8th, meaning that somebody would have to pinch hit for him in the 9th....if we go to extra innings, we have virtually nobody left to pitch with our season on the line.

 

I'm in no mood for silver linings. We're starting to become the Brooklyn Dodgers. "Wait until next year". Only, the Dodgers actually won a World Series.

 

We got our butts kicked by an 85 win team. Does anybody seriously think this team would have any chance against the Giants or the Dodgers, if we somehow made it to the playoffs against them?

I am with you here. Way too little was being made of the we got it locked up. If they didn't sweep the Mets they are a wild card. Counsell didn't push them down the stretch hoping the switch would get flipped. Bad call.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The Brewers have to sit down this offseason and come up with a plan of how to fix the offense with the dh coming on board the pitching is going to be impacted. You are going to have to score more runs. More consistent ab. Urias and Adames and Wong are good to go. Everyone else is under evaluation.

 

I just can't see how. There is nothing coming up the pipeline that's going to do that. The only dream I can cling to is fixing Yelich to the point he's a shell of what he was. Yeah, I'm sure they can move a guy here or a guy there, but this offense badly needs something. And it's not just Yelich. It's JBJ. It's Cain. There's a lot of money in some not very great players.

[MrTPlush]

The Brewers have to sit down this offseason and come up with a plan of how to fix the offense with the dh coming on board the pitching is going to be impacted. You are going to have to score more runs. More consistent ab. Urias and Adames and Wong are good to go. Everyone else is under evaluation.

 

Gotta believe Rowdy is there too. The infield is set.

 

Hopefully we bring in someone else in case he isn’t that great. Hope a few postseason homers doesn’t erase the fact his OPS the last two months was like .700

Edited October 13, 2021 by MrTPlush

[rickh150]

Nope. Counsell got outmanaged today and yesterday period. First guessing all of it all day long. Bottom line he did not help the cause today at all. Is he a good manager sure. Doesn't mean he was good this series. Hitting Yelich three is indefensible.

 

They scored 6 runs across four games. That has nothing to do with the manager, and is the main reason they lost. If anything Counsell got desperate and abandoned “pitching in defense” in Game 4 when he pinch hit Vogelbach for Peralta.

 

The Brewers offense gave the pitchers no margin for error in two of the games, and tonight the Braves capitalized on their chances when they got them and the Brewers hitters didn’t; plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the manager.

 

Had ample opportunity to steal a base with speed on bases in games 2, 3, and 4. A couple steals might have turned a game too.

[Bulldogboy]

Nope. Counsell got outmanaged today and yesterday period. First guessing all of it all day long. Bottom line he did not help the cause today at all. Is he a good manager sure. Doesn't mean he was good this series. Hitting Yelich three is indefensible.

 

They scored 6 runs across four games. That has nothing to do with the manager, and is the main reason they lost. If anything Counsell got desperate and abandoned “pitching in defense” in Game 4 when he pinch hit Vogelbach for Peralta.

 

The Brewers offense gave the pitchers no margin for error in two of the games, and tonight the Braves capitalized on their chances when they got them and the Brewers hitters didn’t; plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the manager.

Did the manager help them tonight with his decisions?? Yes or no??

[adambr2]

I'm sure the time will come when I will appreciate the ride of the 2021 season. But that time isn't today. Today it just feels like another disappointment.

[MrTPlush]

I think a lot of the blame should be placed at the feet of Craig Counsell. The entire final two weeks, or so, of the regular season was a giant dumpster fire. It started by losing two on the road to the Tigers. We took two of three from the Cubs, but they'd had a giant fire sale, getting rid of Rizzo, Bryant and Baez.

 

We faced the Cardinals and the Dodgers ten times in that finishing stretch, and went 1-9.

 

The narrative I saw over and over on social media was, "well, they're locked in at the #3 spot in the playoffs. They can't improve their playoff seeding, so it makes sense to rest some guys."

 

No. These guys are professional athletes, conditioned to play a 162 game season. You don't limp into the playoffs. You keep playing hard until the season is done, they you go into the playoffs playing good baseball.

 

We didn't. Losing Williams to a colossally stupid broken hand only compounded things.

 

This team is not mentally strong. Neither is our manager. Counsell just makes too many questionable decisions in high leverage situations. Putting our third string catcher in to pinch hit, with Tyrone Taylor available, was just one. Taking Woodruff out after 12 pitches to put Hader in for the bottom of the 8th, meaning that somebody would have to pinch hit for him in the 9th....if we go to extra innings, we have virtually nobody left to pitch with our season on the line.

 

I'm in no mood for silver linings. We're starting to become the Brooklyn Dodgers. "Wait until next year". Only, the Dodgers actually won a World Series.

 

We got our butts kicked by an 85 win team. Does anybody seriously think this team would have any chance against the Giants or the Dodgers, if we somehow made it to the playoffs against them?

I am with you here. Way too little was being made of the we got it locked up. If they didn't sweep the Mets they are a wild card. Counsell didn't push them down the stretch hoping the switch would get flipped. Bad call.

 

They won the division by five games, they could have probably got swept and won the division.

[LouisEly]

It's been fun watching these games with all of you. We'll believe together again next year.

 

The good news is: these pitchers are very good.

And finding good pitching is the hard part. Finding bats is (relatively) easier.

 

We saw this coming from before the season. They built the team on run prevention, not run scoring.

[Bulldogboy]

The Brewers have to sit down this offseason and come up with a plan of how to fix the offense with the dh coming on board the pitching is going to be impacted. You are going to have to score more runs. More consistent ab. Urias and Adames and Wong are good to go. Everyone else is under evaluation.

 

I just can't see how. There is nothing coming up the pipeline that's going to do that. The only dream I can cling to is fixing Yelich to the point he's a shell of what he was. Yeah, I'm sure they can move a guy here or a guy there, but this offense badly needs something. And it's not just Yelich. It's JBJ. It's Cain. There's a lot of money in some not very great players.

Brewers are scheduled to pay 52 million dollars to Yelich Cain and Bradley. If Garcia opts in it's almost 76 million. That is impossibly bad roster management.

[sixtolezcano16]

Someone mentions trading Yelich every couple days like it's a real thing that could actually happen. Dude is 190 million dollars of negative value. The best, realistic, and only thing the Brewers can do right now is hope he takes the winter to get his mind and body right, see if he can even become like an .850 OPS dude for a few seasons going forward (doubt it, but maybe?) and be a semi-productive guy yuwhile they still have the trio of ace pitchers under team control.

 

Yup, this is really the only way to look at Yelich right now. He needs to clear his head first, do whatever he can to clean up any lingering health stuff. Then put in whatever work they can to get his swing back to where he can hit the ball in the air. Just be good, dont need to be Barry Bonds again. Just a solid .850 borderline all star type would be a big help to the O while we have this pitching.

You guys are dreaming. Maybe I can fly, Maybe I’ll win the powerball. Maybe I can win gold metals.

[yourout]

The Brewers have to sit down this offseason and come up with a plan of how to fix the offense with the dh coming on board the pitching is going to be impacted. You are going to have to score more runs. More consistent ab. Urias and Adames and Wong are good to go. Everyone else is under evaluation.

 

I just can't see how. There is nothing coming up the pipeline that's going to do that. The only dream I can cling to is fixing Yelich to the point he's a shell of what he was. Yeah, I'm sure they can move a guy here or a guy there, but this offense badly needs something. And it's not just Yelich. It's JBJ. It's Cain. There's a lot of money in some not very great players.

Brewers are scheduled to pay 52 million dollars to Yelich Cain and Bradley. If Garcia opts in it's almost 76 million. That is impossibly bad roster management.

 

Amen.... Mistakes like that can set a small franchise back a decade easily.

 

The only hope they have is a new hitting coach straightening guys out or finding a way to dump half the roster.

Edited October 13, 2021 by yourout

[The stache]

I go back to that too but he has zero issues running. It was his right knee and required no surgery. I think his problem is in his head.

 

Not needing surgery means next to nothing where the severity of an injury is concerned. It only means that team physicians didn't need to intervene in order for the patella to heal on its own.

 

Four years ago, I tripped while walking, fell, and broke my left patella into two pieces. Literally into two pieces. There was a very small part of the bone that was still attached at the very top, and my orthopedic surgeon (well, one of two) put me on bed rest for six weeks hoping that the bone would heal on its own. It did. The fracture completely healed.

 

I'm much older than Yelich is (just turned 50 a few weeks ago). I'm not a professional athlete like he is. But if I have to, I can run, and outside of a little soreness afterwords, I'm fine. But putting torque on the knee, while bearing weight, is incredibly painful. I can't do it.

 

Running, and swinging a bat, impact a knee in two completely different ways. The physics are completely different.

 

Mickey Mantle destroyed his right knee in the 1951 World Series. The orthopedic surgeon interviewed by Jane Leavy for her book on Mantle postulated that he tore his ACL, MCL and meniscus. The "Unhappy Triad" injury. Mantle played his entire career with a severely damaged knee. Only his neuromuscular genius helped to compensate for the injury.

 

Mantle could still run like the wind, north south. He experienced no decrease to his burst speed. But he couldn't cut while running. At all. Different situation, clearly, but it goes to the discussion that this knee injury may not impact Christian's ability to run, but it may still be incredibly distracting, and limiting, where his swing mechanics are concerned.

[Fear The Chorizo]

We had basically a completely healthy roster.

 

No Acuna for the Braves and they still won in 4. The Braves are better.

 

Healthy enough to play, sure - but odds are pretty good there were some key guys on fumes or dealing with nagging injuries that impacted their performance...Avi, Narvaez, Yelich, Cain - that's mainly just the grind of a season though.

 

Regarding Yelich, there really needs to be some organizational and personal soul searching that goes on this offseason to figure out what can be done to get him back to being a quality player - not 2019 MVP-caliber, but at least what he was offensively during his time with the Marlins. If not, this organization is completely screwed.

 

I still go back to the day he signed his huge extension before Spring Training 2020, and after I realized how much money Yelich probably left on the table in terms of overall contract value a thought crept into my head asking why do this contract now - for both Yelich and the Brewers? For the Brewers, they still had I believe 3 years left of team control on Yelich's deal at the time at very friendly annual values - to me it wasn't surprising to see them wanting to extend Yelich, but I was shocked they did so before actually making sure he was the same player he was prior to breaking his kneecap. The only reason it made sense for Yelich to pull the trigger on an extension then was his own uncertainty of how well he would perform after that injury longterm - otherwise he was leaving significant money on the table.

 

Just think of where the Brewers would be as an organization right now had they not inked that deal - I believe the Brewers would have seriously considered not picking up what would have been a $15M option for the 2022 season and possibly just let him walk this offseason. That's a meteoric fall in terms of a player's value vs. production on the field.

[DuWayne Steurer]

You guys are dreaming. Maybe I can fly, Maybe I’ll win the powerball. Maybe I can win gold metals.

 

Yelich has, in the recent past, been a good hitter. Id wager his odds of being passably able are better than you winning the power ball.

[NievesNoNO]

I think those of you that think, they're going to "fix" the offense are going to be disappointed. This is largely the team that will be back, imo. There's room for some progression with Urias and maybe Adames yet. Tellez is better than what some of you are giving him credit for; he'll be at 1B. The biggest add will have to Yelich somehow rediscovering himself.

[dlk9s]

Just finished watching - had to delay on DVR.

 

Home plate ump was hot garbage. Holy crap. So many balls out of the zone called strikes and he got fooled by pitchers missing the target several times.

 

Freeman bomb aside, it basically came down to two terrible 0-2 pitches by Strickland and Ashby (though Ashby's still resulted in weak contact).

[oldguy]

Bottom line..many of us said the lack of offense would doom them and it did. Outside of Tellez being involved, 4 games and 2 runs......2 runs....That's as embarrassing as it gets. So many batters with embarrassing at bats swinging at crap while standing there watching good pitches. Who's to blame?

 

1. CC for taking the foot off the gas the last month and killing whatever momentum they had. Hope he learned a lesson from this, but I doubt it. He's still waiting "To catch a break." Teams make their breaks

2. Their nonexistant hitting coach that should of been fired last year. This team needs a different approach to hitting. This was so embarrassing to watch.

3. CC if he doesn't get a new hitting coach.

4. Stearns if 1,2, or 3 don't occur.

 

What started as as a great year ended up as a back door division win and an embarrassing performance in the playoffs. There should be changes. But I guess we should be used to it by now. It's the Brewers being the Brewers Still one of six to never win the Title.

[yourout]

I go back to that too but he has zero issues running. It was his right knee and required no surgery. I think his problem is in his head.

 

Not needing surgery means next to nothing where the severity of an injury is concerned. It only means that team physicians didn't need to intervene in order for the patella to heal on its own.

 

Four years ago, I tripped while walking, fell, and broke my left patella into two pieces. Literally into two pieces. There was a very small part of the bone that was still attached at the very top, and my orthopedic surgeon (well, one of two) put me on bed rest for six weeks hoping that the bone would heal on its own. It did. The fracture completely healed.

 

I'm much older than Yelich is (just turned 50 a few weeks ago). I'm not a professional athlete like he is. But if I have to, I can run, and outside of a little soreness afterwords, I'm fine. But putting torque on the knee, while bearing weight, is incredibly painful. I can't do it.

 

Running, and swinging a bat, impact a knee in two completely different ways. The physics are completely different.

 

Mickey Mantle destroyed his right knee in the 1951 World Series. The orthopedic surgeon interviewed by Jane Leavy for her book on Mantle postulated that he tore his ACL, MCL and meniscus. The "Unhappy Triad" injury. Mantle played his entire career with a severely damaged knee. Only his neuromuscular genius helped to compensate for the injury.

 

Mantle could still run like the wind, north south. He experienced no decrease to his burst speed. But he couldn't cut while running. At all. Different situation, clearly, but it goes to the discussion that this knee injury may not impact Christian's ability to run, but it may still be incredibly distracting, and limiting, where his swing mechanics are concerned.

 

I am more concerned that it's a degenerative back condition that they're not talking about. There's no coming back to anything resembling an MVP form from that.

[roadcrew3]

The Brewers have to sit down this offseason and come up with a plan of how to fix the offense with the dh coming on board the pitching is going to be impacted. You are going to have to score more runs. More consistent ab. Urias and Adames and Wong are good to go. Everyone else is under evaluation.

 

I just can't see how. There is nothing coming up the pipeline that's going to do that. The only dream I can cling to is fixing Yelich to the point he's a shell of what he was. Yeah, I'm sure they can move a guy here or a guy there, but this offense badly needs something. And it's not just Yelich. It's JBJ. It's Cain. There's a lot of money in some not very great players.

 

Brewers went after Turner hard last offseason. Rumors of them also going after Reynolds at the deadline. Trading for a guy like Adames seemed to come out of nowhere.

 

There are pieces that I think can be moveable in Houser, Lauer, Turang, Mitchell, Small, Ashby, Williams, Hader, maybe even Narvaez, that can bring back value. If anything, I do trust Stearns and Co. won't be satisfied with these results and look to "run it back." I expect an aggressive offseason.

[titletownking]

I go back to that too but he has zero issues running. It was his right knee and required no surgery. I think his problem is in his head.

 

Not needing surgery means next to nothing where the severity of an injury is concerned. It only means that team physicians didn't need to intervene in order for the patella to heal on its own.

 

Four years ago, I tripped while walking, fell, and broke my left patella into two pieces. Literally into two pieces. There was a very small part of the bone that was still attached at the very top, and my orthopedic surgeon (well, one of two) put me on bed rest for six weeks hoping that the bone would heal on its own. It did. The fracture completely healed.

 

I'm much older than Yelich is (just turned 50 a few weeks ago). I'm not a professional athlete like he is. But if I have to, I can run, and outside of a little soreness afterwords, I'm fine. But putting torque on the knee, while bearing weight, is incredibly painful. I can't do it.

 

Running, and swinging a bat, impact a knee in two completely different ways. The physics are completely different.

 

Mickey Mantle destroyed his right knee in the 1951 World Series. The orthopedic surgeon interviewed by Jane Leavy for her book on Mantle postulated that he tore his ACL, MCL and meniscus. The "Unhappy Triad" injury. Mantle played his entire career with a severely damaged knee. Only his neuromuscular genius helped to compensate for the injury.

 

Mantle could still run like the wind, north south. He experienced no decrease to his burst speed. But he couldn't cut while running. At all. Different situation, clearly, but it goes to the discussion that this knee injury may not impact Christian's ability to run, but it may still be incredibly distracting, and limiting, where his swing mechanics are concerned.

 

I am more concerned that it's a degenerative back condition that they're not talking about. There's no coming back to anything resembling an MVP form from that.

 

Maybe he retires and the team collects insurance.

[clancyphile]

Well well well. End of the road for 2021.

The shortest possible summary for me is...

Pitching: A+

Defense: B

Hitting: D+

Base-running - B (but sample of runners too small).

 

On the good side, I really enjoyed being on this board as the newest of newbies and as a recent --but deliberate-- Brewer fan. And I especially enjoyed spending many pleasant afternoons and evenings listening to Ueker, Jeff, & Laine on the internet 'radio.' It was a good season, except for that unshakable regret that we seem to have coasted a bit too much after clinching the division, and the indisputable reality that this team just didn't hit enough when it really counted. I pray that Christian Yelich finds his way again, because he's hit rock bottom.

I hope to join y'all again for a good ride next summer. When does spring training start?

 

Cheers, thanks, peace, & blessings to all!

Beery

 

I think this season will fire Yelich up to some degree.

 

My take:

Starting Pitching: A+ -- Woodruff, Burnes, and Peralta will all be back next year and will be able to shoulder more of the load. Add Ashby/Houser/Lauer/Small, and this team is going to be amazing to watch.

 

Bullpen: A- -- Hader's still the best closer in the game. The best players have bad days. He has an excellent supporting cast, albeit Devin Williams probably needs to stop drinking.

 

Defense: B -- Defense has helped the pitchers, but Was too much emphasis put on it? It's going to be a question Stearns confronts in the offseason.

 

Offense: C- -- The offense needs help. Yelich looked awful, but I recall a guy named Corbin Burnes had an awful season once... and look at how he rebounded. Hiura also needs a turnaround. Re-signing Escobar would be a good idea. But it is not awful. It got enough runs 95 times in the regular season, and once more in the NLDS. This isn't the 2002

 

Coaching: D -- Coaching is a HUGE problem, particularly hitting. Being able to protect the plate and situational hitting are SKILLS, they can be TAUGHT to some degree, depending on the player. That is on the hitting coach, and Haines needs to go.

 

Managing: B+ -- Counsell's done very well. Four straight playoff appearances, and since 2016 he has made the most o the players the front office has provided him. He should be up for an extension, behind only one other person.

 

Front Office: B+ -- The front office has done well, both drafting, making deals, and finding good players in free agency without breaking the bank. The first long-term extension this year has to go to David Stearns.

[roadcrew3]

Bottom line..many of us said the lack of offense would doom them and it did. Outside of Tellez being involved, 4 games and 2 runs......2 runs....That's as embarrassing as it gets. So many batters with embarrassing at bats swinging at crap while standing there watching good pitches. Who's to blame?

 

1. CC for taking the foot off the gas the last month and killing whatever momentum they had. Hope he learned a lesson from this, but I doubt it. He's still waiting "To catch a break." Teams make their breaks

2. Their nonexistant hitting coach that should of been fired last year. This team needs a different approach to hitting. This was so embarrassing to watch.

3. CC if he doesn't get a new hitting coach.

4. Stearns if 1,2, or 3 don't occur.

 

What started as as a great year ended up as a back door division win and an embarrassing performance in the playoffs. There should be changes. But I guess we should be used to it by now. It's the Brewers being the Brewers Still one of six to never win the Title.

 

There is literally no such thing as a back door division win. We had a great summer and built a big divisional lead that was enough to hold up at the end of the year. I am as frustrated as anybody about how this season ended but no reason to diminish their regular season accomplishments - even with a poor last week or two to end.