2021-10-11 (NLDS Game #3): Brewers (Peralta) at Braves (Anderson) [Brewers lose, 3-0]

[sixtolezcano16]

If the Brewers get eliminated tomorrow, Haines seriously needs to go. Over the last 5 postseason games the Brewers have been shut out 3 times and scored a total of 4 runs. They have a prime window with their pitching and need to do something to upgrade/give a spark to the offense.

 

I really don’t think this will make any difference at all. It is inherent in the skills of the batter. For almost half the season we have shown that this team really had poor hitting. The other half? They played against teams with poor or very poor pitching. It has been proven time and again that hitting coaches have very little impact on a team’s batting. Maybe use the money a hitting coach makes and add it to an offer for a player that is actually a good hitter. That’s a much better idea.

[Brewcrewin07]

I said this at the time to my coworker and it was proven right...I said pulling Freddy here is going to cost them, and lo and behold it did. My thinking was this(and some of it is the baseball coach in me), If Cain doesn't get the run home there's one out(he didn't) I send Peralta up there to bunt...you have a 50/50 shot of getting one down good enough to get the runner home. If he doesn't, so be it, you then rely on Wong to get a two out hit, which is exactly what ended up happening anyway, and now you can't send Freddy back out there. To me, it was an absolute no brainer to leave Freddy in. Counsell f'd it up. He won't say he did, but 100% he did.

 

If Counsell did what you are suggesting he should of been fired on the spot.

 

Bunting with your pitcher has to be the dumbest idea I have heard in a long time. The right move was to put in a pinch hitter there. I think Counsell just used the wrong pinch hitter. Should have been Jace or Escobar in that situation and not Vogelbach.

 

With the way the offense has been going you have to cash in with one out and you have to put in a pinch hitter. You don't know when your next opportunity is going to come up and you have to take advantage there in the playoffs. If this were the regular season sure send up the pitcher and hope for a walk or a wild pitch or something but not in the playoffs.

 

You're flat out wrong, but you're also entitled to your opinion. Ask yourself this...same exact situation, are the Dodgers PH in the 5th inning for Scherzer or Urias?? Are the Cardinals PH for Wainright?? The Mets PH for DeGrom?? If you answer yes, you'll be flat out wrong again, but again entitled to your opinion.

 

Not really accurate comparisons because LA and STL have functioning solid offenses. We don't, so it's a different level of necessity to get a run or two if given the chance. Normal situation I'm sure CC doesn't do this in the 4th inning, the ineptitude of the offense lately has created a different situation though.

 

But can't this also be spun the other way and use it as a reason to NOT Pinch hit? Meaning the offense is so inept, that what would all of a sudden change in that situation that would lead CC to believe all of a sudden they are going to get a big hit there when they haven't all series??

[FVBrewerFan]

I said this at the time to my coworker and it was proven right...I said pulling Freddy here is going to cost them, and lo and behold it did. My thinking was this(and some of it is the baseball coach in me), If Cain doesn't get the run home there's one out(he didn't) I send Peralta up there to bunt...you have a 50/50 shot of getting one down good enough to get the runner home. If he doesn't, so be it, you then rely on Wong to get a two out hit, which is exactly what ended up happening anyway, and now you can't send Freddy back out there. To me, it was an absolute no brainer to leave Freddy in. Counsell f'd it up. He won't say he did, but 100% he did.

 

 

You're a baseball coach? And you think Peralta had a 50/50 chance to score a run on a sacrifice bunt? Wow. Beyond that, why would you possibly want to try bunting the pitcher with one out in that situation.

 

Not cool, obviously you're not a disciple of Coach Cooper.

[tmwiese55]

 

If Counsell did what you are suggesting he should of been fired on the spot.

 

Bunting with your pitcher has to be the dumbest idea I have heard in a long time. The right move was to put in a pinch hitter there. I think Counsell just used the wrong pinch hitter. Should have been Jace or Escobar in that situation and not Vogelbach.

 

With the way the offense has been going you have to cash in with one out and you have to put in a pinch hitter. You don't know when your next opportunity is going to come up and you have to take advantage there in the playoffs. If this were the regular season sure send up the pitcher and hope for a walk or a wild pitch or something but not in the playoffs.

 

You're flat out wrong, but you're also entitled to your opinion. Ask yourself this...same exact situation, are the Dodgers PH in the 5th inning for Scherzer or Urias?? Are the Cardinals PH for Wainright?? The Mets PH for DeGrom?? If you answer yes, you'll be flat out wrong again, but again entitled to your opinion.

 

Not really accurate comparisons because LA and STL have functioning solid offenses. We don't, so it's a different level of necessity to get a run or two if given the chance. Normal situation I'm sure CC doesn't do this in the 4th inning, the ineptitude of the offense lately has created a different situation though.

 

But can't this also be spun the other way and use it as a reason to NOT Pinch hit? Meaning the offense is so inept, that what would all of a sudden change in that situation that would lead CC to believe all of a sudden they are going to get a big hit there when they haven't all series??

 

 

Not really. There was already guys on 2nd and 3rd with one out. So they're at a massive advantage to help them overcome their ineptitude. Plus, it doesn't change the main point that due to how bad they've been they're very only likely going to get one or two chances to score so you have to do all you can to get something out of them.

[Brewcrewin07]

If Counsell did what you are suggesting he should of been fired on the spot.

 

Bunting with your pitcher has to be the dumbest idea I have heard in a long time. The right move was to put in a pinch hitter there. I think Counsell just used the wrong pinch hitter. Should have been Jace or Escobar in that situation and not Vogelbach.

 

With the way the offense has been going you have to cash in with one out and you have to put in a pinch hitter. You don't know when your next opportunity is going to come up and you have to take advantage there in the playoffs. If this were the regular season sure send up the pitcher and hope for a walk or a wild pitch or something but not in the playoffs.

 

You're flat out wrong, but you're also entitled to your opinion. Ask yourself this...same exact situation, are the Dodgers PH in the 5th inning for Scherzer or Urias?? Are the Cardinals PH for Wainright?? The Mets PH for DeGrom?? If you answer yes, you'll be flat out wrong again, but again entitled to your opinion.

 

Not really accurate comparisons because LA and STL have functioning solid offenses. We don't, so it's a different level of necessity to get a run or two if given the chance. Normal situation I'm sure CC doesn't do this in the 4th inning, the ineptitude of the offense lately has created a different situation though.

 

But can't this also be spun the other way and use it as a reason to NOT Pinch hit? Meaning the offense is so inept, that what would all of a sudden change in that situation that would lead CC to believe all of a sudden they are going to get a big hit there when they haven't all series??

 

 

Not really. There was already guys on 2nd and 3rd with one out. So they're at a massive advantage to help them overcome their ineptitude. Plus, it doesn't change the main point that due to how bad they've been they're very only likely going to get one or two chances to score so you have to do all you can to get something out of them.

 

 

I mean the whole point is...so what if he wouldn't get a bunt down and ultimately say strikes out?? At that point you need a two out hit from Wong, which...is EXACTLY the same scenario they had themselves in even after using a PH. There offense has been so inept, to be honest, there was no reason to think any PH he used was going to do something productive there..I would have rather kept Freddy in, took my chances that not only would he shut them down for 7 innings or so, AND that someone would run into one later on. if it doesn't end up working, so be it. At least I went down with my best in that scenario.

 

Even though it's not going to happen, it's the same reason I'm a proponent of going with Burnes tomorrow. If he gets lit up(highly unlikely) and you lose, well you went down with your best and you can't regret it. You save Burnes for game 5...but what happens if there isn't a game 5?? Then you saved him for what reason?? Next season? If you aren't going to use your ace(even on short rest) in an elimination game, then when are you going to use him?? I mean what if in some bizarre world, the Brewers came out and score 4-5 in the 1st inning tomorrow? If you were going to go with Burnes, nothing saying at that point, you can't essentially "pull him back" and not even trot him out there. Just at least be open to it, is all I'm saying.

[TURBO]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned:

 

Even if it was a good decision to pull Peralta (Which it wasn't, and I will die on that hill) to replace him with the likes of Dan Vogelbach is laughable. It isn't like were replacing him with a guy hitting .275, hell, .250. The odds of Vogelbach getting a hit in that situation were minimal at best. He just isn't the type of hitter that makes pulling your starter after 4 innings, with 51 pitches, and dealing, a good, sound decision It was a bad move.

 

It was a bad decision on so many levels, and I get people sticking up for CC, but there have been times where he has made really stupid decisions, and this is one of them. It doesn't mean CC should be fired, or that he sucks, or is a moron, it just means he made a REALLY bad decision in a playoff game, that in the end, could cost us the series. Is it a "start Kotsay in CF" type of mistake? Right now, after still hurting from the loss, I'd say yes it is. I may feel differently tomorrow, but I doubt it.

 

It was a bad decision.

 

Lastly, the time to flip the switch is running out.

[Bulldogboy]

This team needs an anchor in the lineup and there are tons in free agency. Freeman gives the Braves one. Yelich is no longer able to do it so changes need to be made.

[MrTPlush]

I mean we keep getting shut out because of the players, not Haines. Some of these guys aren’t bad (Yelich/Garcia/Urias), but when facing good to great pitching they are going to be exposed quickly.

[MrTPlush]

This team needs an anchor in the lineup and there are tons in free agency. Freeman gives the Braves one. Yelich is no longer able to do it so changes need to be made.

 

Too bad we already hitched ourselves to Yelich.

[yourout]

If the Brewers get eliminated tomorrow, Haines seriously needs to go. Over the last 5 postseason games the Brewers have been shut out 3 times and scored a total of 4 runs. They have a prime window with their pitching and need to do something to upgrade/give a spark to the offense.

 

He should have been jettisoned after last year's debacle.

[Fear The Chorizo]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned:

 

Even if it was a good decision to pull Peralta (Which it wasn't, and I will die on that hill) to replace him with the likes of Dan Vogelbach is laughable. It isn't like were replacing him with a guy hitting .275, hell, .250. The odds of Vogelbach getting a hit in that situation were minimal at best. He just isn't the type of hitter that makes pulling your starter after 4 innings, with 51 pitches, and dealing, a good, sound decision It was a bad move.

 

It was a bad decision on so many levels, and I get people sticking up for CC, but there have been times where he has made really stupid decisions, and this is one of them. It doesn't mean CC should be fired, or that he sucks, or is a moron, it just means he made a REALLY bad decision in a playoff game, that in the end, could cost us the series. Is it a "start Kotsay in CF" type of mistake? Right now, after still hurting from the loss, I'd say yes it is. I may feel differently tomorrow, but I doubt it.

 

It was a bad decision.

 

Lastly, the time to flip the switch is running out.

 

I thought Jace was the best option to pinch hit in that spot...but also just hated the decision to do so in the top of the 5th. It was a 0-0 game, for gosh sakes.

 

Braves could have yanked Anderson and brought lefty relievers in if they thought it was a max leverage situation, but they opted to leave him in probably assuming he'd give up at least 1 and they could take advantage of the Brewers going to their pen too early over their next 5 at bats. They got the best of all worlds by getting out if it unscathed and immediately scored 3 runs in their half of the inning.

 

Cain's at bat was the key spot of the game ( and of the series to this point) if his hard hit grounder gets through a pulled in infield the Brewers score 1-2 there, a big inning ensues, and Peralta stays in the ballgame. Instead Swanson makes a good play and CC makes a bit of a panic move and it completely backfires on him

 

At the end of the day, hitters have got to score some damn runs...would make these decisions easy and frankly unnecessary to even think about so damn early in a ballgame.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Fear The Chorizo

[TURBO]

I'm not sticking up for Haines, but how many players have digressed under him. (besides the horrendous seasons from Hiura and Yelich) I don't think a hitting coach can damage a guy like Yelich, who had 2 back to back MVP type seasons. I think Yelich's problem is either physical (back or knee) or mental (does he trust his knee after the injury, is he afraid of getting hurt again) The Hiura situation is anyone's guess...

 

It's a legit question. How many players have suddenly become worse since we got Haines, or since they came to Milwaukee.

 

I don't know the answer, but I know the stat guys will accept the challenge and answer the question.

[titletownking]

I said this at the time to my coworker and it was proven right...I said pulling Freddy here is going to cost them, and lo and behold it did. My thinking was this(and some of it is the baseball coach in me), If Cain doesn't get the run home there's one out(he didn't) I send Peralta up there to bunt...you have a 50/50 shot of getting one down good enough to get the runner home. If he doesn't, so be it, you then rely on Wong to get a two out hit, which is exactly what ended up happening anyway, and now you can't send Freddy back out there. To me, it was an absolute no brainer to leave Freddy in. Counsell f'd it up. He won't say he did, but 100% he did.

 

 

You're a baseball coach? And you think Peralta had a 50/50 chance to score a run on a sacrifice bunt? Wow. Beyond that, why would you possibly want to try bunting the pitcher with one out in that situation.

 

Not cool, obviously you're not a disciple of Coach Cooper.

 

 

Not coach cooper again..

[TURBO]

I said this at the time to my coworker and it was proven right...I said pulling Freddy here is going to cost them, and lo and behold it did. My thinking was this(and some of it is the baseball coach in me), If Cain doesn't get the run home there's one out(he didn't) I send Peralta up there to bunt...you have a 50/50 shot of getting one down good enough to get the runner home. If he doesn't, so be it, you then rely on Wong to get a two out hit, which is exactly what ended up happening anyway, and now you can't send Freddy back out there. To me, it was an absolute no brainer to leave Freddy in. Counsell f'd it up. He won't say he did, but 100% he did.

 

 

You're a baseball coach? And you think Peralta had a 50/50 chance to score a run on a sacrifice bunt? Wow. Beyond that, why would you possibly want to try bunting the pitcher with one out in that situation.

 

Not cool, obviously you're not a disciple of Coach Cooper.

 

 

Not coach cooper again..

 

Can never get enough of the Coach Cooper references...lol

[brooks_quichenick]

The offense is going to bust out tomorrow and send this thing back to Milwaukee.

 

Crew in 5.

[Eye Black]

The offense is going to bust out tomorrow and send this thing back to Milwaukee.

 

Crew in 5.

Tomorrow is by far the most confident I’ve been going into any game this series. I think the offense finally wakes up against Ynoa who they had success against early in the season, and Lauer keeps them mostly off balance and allows 2 runs or less over 6+ innings. The Braves were much better against RHPs this year than LHPs this season.

 

I’m going to predict 4-2 Brewers tomorrow.

[Brewcrewin07]

The offense is going to bust out tomorrow and send this thing back to Milwaukee.

 

Crew in 5.

Tomorrow is by far the most confident I’ve been going into any game this series. I think the offense finally wakes up against Ynoa who they had success against early in the season, and Lauer keeps them mostly off balance and allows 2 runs or less over 6+ innings. The Braves were much better against RHPs this year than LHPs.

 

I’m going to predict 5-2 Brewers tomorrow.

 

That's all well and good, but I don't think Ynoa has been officially announced has he?? in fact there is chatter it may be Morton on short rest.

[roadcrew3]

Lost in the struggles of the Brewers offense is the fact that they have actually hit into quite a bit of bad luck too.

 

In the 5th,Cain's grounder was 101mph with an xba of .400.When Wong was up, his liner was also 101 and xba of .700. Both would've scored at least one, Wong's forsure would've scored 2. In the 8th, Yelich's GIDP was hit at 105 and .440 BA.

 

Just one of those games where you can't buy a break. Couple of those find the grass and it's a different game.

 

We're due for that luck to break. We sneak out with a win tomorrow and we're going to be feeling damn good about ourselves going into a game 5 at home with Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, and Hader on deck.

Edited October 12, 2021 by roadcrew3

[Eye Black]

That's all well and good, but I don't think Ynoa has been officially announced has he?? in fact there is chatter it may be Morton on short rest.

Well I hope they do try that, but it seems like an unnecessary risk to start Morton tomorrow. I could see maybe bringing him in out of the bullpen if they get a lead, but starting him on 3-days rest for the first time since 2008 (and first time since 2017 World Series that he’d pitch at all on just 3 days rest) doesn’t seem like a good idea when you’re up 2-1 in the series.

[Jimbo]

Well, another opponent to hate. I'm putting Joc Pederson right up there with David Freese.

[rondoman]

Regardless of how this series goes can we make the DS best of 7 please?!

 

It's overdue imo.

[Pugger]

Regardless of how this series goes can we make the DS best of 7 please?!

 

It's overdue imo.

 

And drag this torture out even longer? Egad.

[Joseph Zarr]

Series aint over yet. I said going into this Series, if we lost 2 at Home I'm going to Hotlanta confident. Do our bats, as they have been in recent memory, give me confidence? Heck no. BUT, I also know everything and anything can change in a 24 hour period. I believe we can turn this around. Guys have to step up. Plain and simple. If they don't step up? Changes will be made. I am confident in this organization, their plan, and I am still confident that this series is NOT over. Let's see where the chips fall.

[tmwiese55]

Regardless of how this series goes can we make the DS best of 7 please?!

 

It's overdue imo.

 

And talk about an easy way to generate some extra revenue.