Wisconsin vs. Penn State game thread

[DuWayne Steurer]

Yeah, the game plan sucked, the playcalling sucked, but it's fair to point out that Mertz sucked too. Both things can be true.

[LouisEly]

At least I don't think there will be to much discussion about belonging in the playoffs.

There is at least 2 more losses on the schedule.

Without better QB play it might be 5 or 6.

To whom?

 

I see at least 3 more loses for the Badgers:

 

Notre Dame, Northwestern and Iowa. They could even lose a fourth against Purdue. I am just hoping they lose 4 games and Chryst finally gets fired.

Northwestern? The team that got boatraced at home against Michigan State two nights ago? The team that gave up 326 yards rushing to Michigan State and over 500 total yards? To Michigan State, who hasn't had a winning conference record since 2018 and hasn't won 10 games since 2017?

 

Iowa lost their two starting DTs to the NFL plus their best DE, and Notre Dame's starting QB transferred because he was going to be 2nd string at UW.

 

Let's at least be a little rational here. Penn State has a great defense.

[nate82]

 

Based on what, exactly?

 

Sorry, when you make bad decisions that lead to interceptions and miss wide open receivers, that's a QB issue, not a scheme issue.

 

I know fans thought he was the second coming, but at some point we may simply need to acknowledge that we hitched our wagon to the wrong horse, and that horse looks an awful lot like Alex Hornibrook 2.0.

 

He has shown the ability to throw the ball and his arm grades out to be really good. He has NFL starting QB talent it is just that the game plan that is being ran if you can call it that is just lacking. He hasn't been good with the decision making but then again the majority of the pass plays are designed to go up the middle which is where you are going to make a lot of turnovers.

 

I don't know how you can say he is anything like Hornibrook after watching Mertz. The results may not be there yet but Mertz has a better arm than Hornibrook. It is like complaining that Burnes wasn't a good pitcher and he was looking like Wily Peralta 2.0 a couple of years ago.

 

The game plan is definitely not helping Mertz out at all. I doubt Chryst is going to change and he is going to waste another year of a talented QB. When was the last time the Badgers lined up in a bunch WR set? When was the last time the Badgers ran a fade route near the red zone? Heck when was the last time the Badgers ran a fade route at all?

 

Why is Ferguson running basic curls and 5-yard out routes? None of this makes any sense and isn't helping Mertz out at all it is basically all on Mertz to make something happen when the play calls are doing nothing. They could have ran some quick slant routes with their WR to kill some of the pressure that was getting to the QB but Chryst again refused to make an adjustment in his play calling. There were a couple of times they could have ran a fade route to one of the corners in the end zone to Ferguson but they never did. You have a big tight end and all Chryst does is run 5 yard out routes and short curls. It is like he can't think outside of the box of 1950 era football.

[PeaveyFury]

He has shown the ability to throw the ball

 

Again, based on what? One fantastic game against a dumpster fire Illinois program? Every other game he's literally looked like Alex Hornibrook. At some point, you can't blame the game plan for missing mid-level throws.

 

The results may not be there yet but Mertz has a better arm than Hornibrook.

 

If you can't hit the throws, arm strength doesn't matter. Hornibrook couldn't hit mid-level plus passes, and neither can Mertz. One may have been due to arm strength, the other is due to inaccuracy and decision making, which may actually be worse. In the end, they're both guys who can hit 5-yard passes and not be trusted on much else, and turn the ball over at an absurd rate.

 

The reality is, Jack Coan should be the Badgers' QB this year, and they made the wrong choice. Mertz may be very good eventually, but he's just a guy now.

[yourout]

 

I see at least 3 more loses for the Badgers:

 

Notre Dame, Northwestern and Iowa. They could even lose a fourth against Purdue. I am just hoping they lose 4 games and Chryst finally gets fired.

Northwestern? The team that got boatraced at home against Michigan State two nights ago? The team that gave up 326 yards rushing to Michigan State and over 500 total yards? To Michigan State, who hasn't had a winning conference record since 2018 and hasn't won 10 games since 2017?

 

Iowa lost their two starting DTs to the NFL plus their best DE, and Notre Dame's starting QB transferred because he was going to be 2nd string at UW.

 

Let's at least be a little rational here. Penn State has a great defense.

 

Northwestern almost always starts slow and by the end of the year they are a PIA to play.

Probably the best coaching staff in the Division.

[nate82]

He has shown the ability to throw the ball

 

Again, based on what? One fantastic game against a dumpster fire Illinois program? Every other game he's literally looked like Alex Hornibrook. At some point, you can't blame the game plan for missing mid-level throws.

 

The results may not be there yet but Mertz has a better arm than Hornibrook.

 

If you can't hit the throws, arm strength doesn't matter. Hornibrook couldn't hit mid-level plus passes, and neither can Mertz. One may have been due to arm strength, the other is due to inaccuracy and decision making, which may actually be worse. In the end, they're both guys who can hit 5-yard passes and not be trusted on much else, and turn the ball over at an absurd rate.

 

The reality is, Jack Coan should be the Badgers' QB this year, and they made the wrong choice. Mertz may be very good eventually, but he's just a guy now.

 

It isn't just the Illinois game which was more of a NFL style defense and Illinois played him very well actually there were a bunch of deep throws that should have been knocked down that weren't. Then the play calling went ultra conservative after the Michigan game with very few deep balls thrown. How many deep balls were thrown in this game? I don't think there was a single 10+ yard throw all game and I don't think there was a single route that was ran that was more than 10-yards. Majority of the throws were 5-yard throws where the defense could just sit back and camp the routes.

 

I am not sure why you are so hesitant to blame the scheme. If you keep running the same routes over and over again it is not going to matter what the QB does. The defense is going to react and adjust which the Penn State defense did while on the offensive there were no changes. The cornerbacks weren't even playing press coverage during the 2nd half. If the Badgers wanted to they had plenty of opportunities to go for a deep ball but never did. Everything was between 5 - 10 yard routes and nothing over 10 yards. At some point no matter what you think about your QB and their accuracy you have to go and take a shot otherwise the defense is just going to sit on those short passes which is what Penn State did.

 

This is all scheme based Coan wouldn't have done any better than what Mertz did. Maybe instead of a fumble the Badgers are able to get a FG on one of the drives. But there is absolutely no evidence that Coan would have done better. Mertz problem isn't the deep balls he is actually very accurate on the deep balls compared to Hornibrook. I am not sure you are remembering exactly what Hornibrook's problem was. It was that he would float the ball and it had no zip on passes longer than 10-yards. Mertz has a lot of zip on his passes and he is actually rather accurate with the longer throws. It actually on the shorter throws where he is inaccurate.

 

At some point you have to change the scheme a bit if your QB is struggling and Chryst just will not make the changes needed. Coan struggled a few times like this and Chryst never made any adjustments. Just look at the Ohio State games he never makes an adjustment to his game plan it is the same every single game. You would think at some point he would change something up but he hasn't. He is incapable of making a change and it is hurting the players in the process. The game plan is horrible and the scheme is horrible as Chryst is not taking advantage of the talent that he has, he is still playing like JT is the starting RB in the backfield. He refuses to make changes to his run game to help the running backs he has and he refuses to make changes to the passing game which has been stale for the last 4-years. Other than 4 games where he wasn't doing the play calling the offense has been stuck in this horrible rut where they don't run any passing plays over 10-yards. That is 100% scheme and not the QB if you don't allow the QB to throw those passes it is 100% on the scheme and not on the QB.

[yourout]

 

It isn't just the Illinois game which was more of a NFL style defense and Illinois played him very well actually there were a bunch of deep throws that should have been knocked down that weren't. Then the play calling went ultra conservative after the Michigan game with very few deep balls thrown. How many deep balls were thrown in this game? I don't think there was a single 10+ yard throw all game and I don't think there was a single route that was ran that was more than 10-yards. Majority of the throws were 5-yard throws where the defense could just sit back and camp the routes.

 

I am not sure why you are so hesitant to blame the scheme. If you keep running the same routes over and over again it is not going to matter what the QB does. The defense is going to react and adjust which the Penn State defense did while on the offensive there were no changes. The cornerbacks weren't even playing press coverage during the 2nd half. If the Badgers wanted to they had plenty of opportunities to go for a deep ball but never did. Everything was between 5 - 10 yard routes and nothing over 10 yards. At some point no matter what you think about your QB and their accuracy you have to go and take a shot otherwise the defense is just going to sit on those short passes which is what Penn State did.

 

This is all scheme based Coan wouldn't have done any better than what Mertz did. Maybe instead of a fumble the Badgers are able to get a FG on one of the drives. But there is absolutely no evidence that Coan would have done better. Mertz problem isn't the deep balls he is actually very accurate on the deep balls compared to Hornibrook. I am not sure you are remembering exactly what Hornibrook's problem was. It was that he would float the ball and it had no zip on passes longer than 10-yards. Mertz has a lot of zip on his passes and he is actually rather accurate with the longer throws. It actually on the shorter throws where he is inaccurate.

 

At some point you have to change the scheme a bit if your QB is struggling and Chryst just will not make the changes needed. Coan struggled a few times like this and Chryst never made any adjustments. Just look at the Ohio State games he never makes an adjustment to his game plan it is the same every single game. You would think at some point he would change something up but he hasn't. He is incapable of making a change and it is hurting the players in the process. The game plan is horrible and the scheme is horrible as Chryst is not taking advantage of the talent that he has, he is still playing like JT is the starting RB in the backfield. He refuses to make changes to his run game to help the running backs he has and he refuses to make changes to the passing game which has been stale for the last 4-years. Other than 4 games where he wasn't doing the play calling the offense has been stuck in this horrible rut where they don't run any passing plays over 10-yards. That is 100% scheme and not the QB if you don't allow the QB to throw those passes it is 100% on the scheme and not on the QB.

 

I have to disagree with some of this. One thing Coan did/does well is read defenses and go through his check downs and Mertz inability or unwillingness to come off covered receivers is by FAR his biggest problem. Twice on endzone throws he locked on Ferguson and got baited into bad decisions when he had much better one on one looks to the outside.

[yourout]

Read that Badgers since 2018 are 2-9 against teams in the T25 with 6 straight losses.

[MrTPlush]

We had an entire season of proof that Coan would have done better. Coan wasn’t as bad as people made it and continue to make it…actually Coan was a pretty dang good QB for the offense we seem to like running. Coan protected the ball and played smart ball. Completed nearly 70% of his passes. Pretty sure his passer rating was Top 15 in Power 5 in 2019.

 

If Coan was the QB today I’m betting we would have been cruising along winning by 14+

 

I really hope Mertz makes us all look dumb and this was just first game of the season jitters, but dang was the dude horrible today after a rough 2020.

[PeaveyFury]

I am not sure why you are so hesitant to blame the scheme.

 

Honestly, because the scheme put them in a chance to win.... twice, as it has 70-80% of the time since Chryst took over. The game plan got them into a position where if any of Mertz' throws in to the endzone had connected, they had a chance to win with an XP. Instead, his throws that actually made it there were inaccurate, on one drive necessitated by a second fumbled handoff, and resulted in two redzone interceptions.

 

The Badgers clearly have chosen to rely on winning time of possession, pounding an opponent into submission, and playing stifling defense. In the end, Mertz wasn't the only reason they lost today- the OTs played like garbage, they allowed a FG block that dramatically changed the course of the game at the end, and allowed three big pass plays in the 2nd half on blown coverages (not to mention that PSU had receivers open on other plays but the QB overshot them on deep balls). Plenty of stuff to clean up. But, winning the way Wisconsin is designed to win necessitates a smart QB that makes sound decisions and 'doesn't lose the game'. Hornibrook was the opposite of that guy, and Mertz looks a lot like that at this point. Coan didn't lose you games, even if he didn't make big plays to be the guy that won it.

 

In the end, Mertz turned the ball over three times in the red zone, and that's on him.

 

That is 100% scheme and not the QB if you don't allow the QB to throw those passes it is 100% on the scheme and not on the QB.

 

Maybe the QB can't make those throws, hence not calling them. He hasn't hit the mid-throws since Illinois- why would they trust him to make longer ones? They see him in practice each day, and have seen him in camp. If he's wildly inaccurate, as he has been in game play, they're not going to build a scheme around attempting passes that have a low probability of success. Nor should they. We as fans only remember the hype of the recruiting rankings and an absurd first game against a bad Illinois team. Since then, everything else suggests that they may be vanilla on offense because the QB's play necessitates it.

[LouisEly]

Northwestern almost always starts slow and by the end of the year they are a PIA to play.

Probably the best coaching staff in the Division.

Typically, but they lost a ton of talent from last year. On offense they lost their starting QB, their best WR and another of their top 4 WRs, and their two best RBs transferred to Arizona and UCF and I believe their starting RB got hurt and is going to miss the season. On defense they lost one of the best CBs in the nation, their best DE, their two starting ILBs, and one of their starting safeties.

 

Michigan State is not a good team, and they made them look bad.

[JackNicholson1974]

The anticipation of the game/disappointment from the game ratio is high on both ends.

 

The defense looks like they could keep the Badgers in and even win most games.

 

The QB play looks just about the opposite. With one conference loss before Labor Day, Bucky looking to take a lot of the hopes of a big year out of the picture early.

[young guns]

The only good news is that early losses tend to hurt less than later losses, but it still sucks to feel like we have already been eliminated from the playoffs (if we even had a chance to begin with)

[nodakfan17]

The only good news is that early losses tend to hurt less than later losses, but it still sucks to feel like we have already been eliminated from the playoffs (if we even had a chance to begin with)

A one loss Power 5 conference champ usually still has a route to the 4-team playoff.

 

College football won’t be the same when they eventually get to a 12 or 16-team playoff system. I love that every game matters, even if that mean losses sting a little more.

[FVBrewerFan]

Recruiting, scheme, and coaching on the offensive side of the ball all appear to be a problem. Would Mertz be better with those three areas improved? Honestly don't know.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I am not sure why you are so hesitant to blame the scheme.

 

Honestly, because the scheme put them in a chance to win.... twice, as it has 70-80% of the time since Chryst took over. The game plan got them into a position where if any of Mertz' throws in to the endzone had connected, they had a chance to win with an XP. Instead, his throws that actually made it there were inaccurate, on one drive necessitated by a second fumbled handoff, and resulted in two redzone interceptions.

 

The Badgers clearly have chosen to rely on winning time of possession, pounding an opponent into submission, and playing stifling defense. In the end, Mertz wasn't the only reason they lost today- the OTs played like garbage, they allowed a FG block that dramatically changed the course of the game at the end, and allowed three big pass plays in the 2nd half on blown coverages (not to mention that PSU had receivers open on other plays but the QB overshot them on deep balls). Plenty of stuff to clean up. But, winning the way Wisconsin is designed to win necessitates a smart QB that makes sound decisions and 'doesn't lose the game'. Hornibrook was the opposite of that guy, and Mertz looks a lot like that at this point. Coan didn't lose you games, even if he didn't make big plays to be the guy that won it.

 

In the end, Mertz turned the ball over three times in the red zone, and that's on him.

 

That is 100% scheme and not the QB if you don't allow the QB to throw those passes it is 100% on the scheme and not on the QB.

 

Maybe the QB can't make those throws, hence not calling them. He hasn't hit the mid-throws since Illinois- why would they trust him to make longer ones? They see him in practice each day, and have seen him in camp. If he's wildly inaccurate, as he has been in game play, they're not going to build a scheme around attempting passes that have a low probability of success. Nor should they. We as fans only remember the hype of the recruiting rankings and an absurd first game against a bad Illinois team. Since then, everything else suggests that they may be vanilla on offense because the QB's play necessitates it.

 

I'm not a Badgers fan but there is no way to defend Mertz at the moment. There have been odd Covid circumstances that perhaps have slowed his development but right now the guy just does not look good. The homerism is causing some to place blame everywhere but there, but the dude flat out air balled the go-ahead touchdown way over the WR's head. A blue chip has to make that pass.

[yourout]

I would not mind the NFL getting Franklin out of the B10. He is a damn good coach.

[yourout]

I don't see any way Bucky stays close to ND. Significant talent gap.

[MrTPlush]

I don't see any way Bucky stays close to ND. Significant talent gap.

 

Especially at QB, what a stud. Wish we had a guy like that.

[yourout]

I don't see any way Bucky stays close to ND. Significant talent gap.

 

Especially at QB, what a stud. Wish we had a guy like that.

 

Obviously

 

That said....ND is pretty stupid if they keep running QB power with him. I like Coan and I am not sure this is the best offense for him but I am sure he loves having some stud WRs that he can throw jump balls to.

[yourout]

How different would things have turned out if Coan had not gotten injured before the season started.

[pacopete4]

So different. He would be in a program that kills quarterbacks with their terrible coaching and scheme.

[yourout]

I like PC but I don't see any way he ever gets us to NDs level. Especially if he doesn't adapt to the game.

Job one is putting Bostad back in charge of the OLine. Move Rudolf somewhere else. Find a good Offensive Coordinator.

[wildcat83]

It may be worth considering Jim Leonard as the head coach before we lose him, and bringing in a slightly more creative OC. Think the power run game has to be our identity, but the offense has to open up a little or we will continue to rely on 3 star receivers most of the time. We’ve put some WR into the NFL, but man this offense is a tough sell to WR recruits.

[CheezWizHed]

1) Mertz clearly wasn't ready. It is easy to separate his failures from the system. Two dropped fumbles, air-mailing passes, throwing lollypop 15 yard passes so they can be broken up easily. He had a couple of really nice throws, but 2 or 3 times that many terrible throws. Also looked very jumpy and nervous in the pocket.

2) Offensive system. This is much harder to separate from Mertz's performance. What concerns me is that the play calling is simplified and/or made much more conservative because Mertz looked like this in practice?

 

Hopefully, this is simply the first game jitters... but he is putting up far more bad games than good at this point.

 

And maybe Jim Leonard should be in playing safety for us?