Wisconsin vs. Penn State game thread

[owbc]

I didn't watch the game but the box score didn't look that bad to me. Wisconsin seemed to follow the usual script -- dominated possession, more total yardage, and very close to a 17-16 win. Not a program-defining loss by any means. I think some of the recent comments are right -- they are limited at skill positions on offense and there's only so much you can do with an inside-the-box running game. Wisconsin has always struggled to acquire the talent to move away from their core strengths, and certainly Chryst is not going to be the one to change that, he's going to triple down on the usual formula.

 

We'll see how they look against Notre Dame, that will be the real measuring stick.

[LouisEly]

A reliable source has a "semi-informed" belief that Berger was serving a one-game suspension for violating team rules, and PC didin't acknowledge it to protect him. I wonder if they had to adjust the game plan last minute (maybe Berger missed curfiew the night before or something) and had planned on more of Mellusi/Berger splitting carries and Guerendo running/faking jet sweeps from the slot.

 

I seem to recall that when the jet sweep was in it's heyday, it was a RB on the jet sweep (Gordon) with Ball/White in the backfield. Or it was White/Clement in the backfield and Gordon on the jet. Having Guerendo and his speed on the jet sweep would make sense, as opposed to having your #2 WR run it.

[tmwiese55]

Yes, the heyday was Gordon running it as he was such a freak. And that was at a time when you had no passing game so it was greatly needed to spread things out a bit. But, it's often been run by WRs too, and generally it's more deceptive if a WR is running it as you can pass out of those lineups. Whereas with an extra RB the D knows before the play to plan for it. Guys like Gilreath and Abby ran it a lot, Erickson too. Think it was Reggie Love who housed one vs LSU. At Pitt they had a WR Boyd, who made the Bengals run it a lot. On the current team, Prior is really good at running it and the other more pitch reverse play they've added the last few years. Seems a combo slot type is a good one to use for this, and if I think Guerendo started at WR so he could be that type. Cruickshank and AJ Taylor were ones in recent years too.

 

ETA: to add to the next post. I fully agree, you don't actually have to give it. In that heavy double RB days let's say they handed it 4-6 times, they probably faked it at least that many time if not 2-3x times as well and it really helped open up the middle for really basic running plays to get a lot of easy yards.

[homer]

You don't need to actually hand it off to make a jet sweep (or any motion) work in your favor. The motion alone does a lot.

 

And for the record, I don't believe the lack of pre snap motion and play action is the differentiator between UW and Ohio State.

[Underachiever]

I didn't watch the game but the box score didn't look that bad to me. Wisconsin seemed to follow the usual script -- dominated possession, more total yardage, and very close to a 17-16 win. Not a program-defining loss by any means. I think some of the recent comments are right -- they are limited at skill positions on offense and there's only so much you can do with an inside-the-box running game. Wisconsin has always struggled to acquire the talent to move away from their core strengths, and certainly Chryst is not going to be the one to change that, he's going to triple down on the usual formula.

 

We'll see how they look against Notre Dame, that will be the real measuring stick.

Running 95 plays and scoring ten points is really bad, no matter how the box score looked. It was dismal to sit through that.

[PeaveyFury]

To be fair, they scored 10 points because they had a FG blocked and turned the ball over 3 times in the redzone. If they convert the way they're simply supposed to, they score 20-27 points...

[MrTPlush]

Graham Mertz was the only problem. You can tell me you can't just blame one player, but then the performance by Mertz is as close as it gets. Any other QB in college football and we win nicely. The only other thing I can think of is the secondary giving up way too many bombs...but hey, only gave up 16 points so really hard to harp on the defense that bad.

[PlayerHader]

Graham Mertz was the only problem. You can tell me you can't just blame one player, but then the performance by Mertz is as close as it gets. Any other QB in college football and we win nicely. The only other thing I can think of is the secondary giving up way too many bombs...but hey, only gave up 16 points so really hard to harp on the defense that bad.

 

This is just silly.

[stoutdude04]

Graham Mertz was the only problem. You can tell me you can't just blame one player, but then the performance by Mertz is as close as it gets. Any other QB in college football and we win nicely. The only other thing I can think of is the secondary giving up way too many bombs...but hey, only gave up 16 points so really hard to harp on the defense that bad.

 

This is just silly.

 

I am sure he was speaking in hyperbole for effect. If they have adequate qb play they win that game. I don't think many would argue that.

[Underachiever]

To be fair, they scored 10 points because they had a FG blocked and turned the ball over 3 times in the redzone. If they convert the way they're simply supposed to, they score 20-27 points...

I don't think I was being unfair. The reason it was dismal was because of the reasons you mentioned, not despite them. Having a field goal blocked and three turnovers in the red zone cannot be separated from the team's performance; it WAS the team's performance.

[tmwiese55]

Well, I'm not one to just blame QBs, for example as soon as he dropped back he was under pressure all game. But, one of the fumbles was directly him just slipping the ball out of his hands. The other handoff is debatable on who's fault it was, but he was right in the middle of it. If he just completes easy handoffs they probably win this game without much drama.

[MrTPlush]

That second fumble was about as brutal as it gets. I thought Mertz finally had a game defining moment with the great connection to Davis for 8 yards on 3 and 7....then proceeded to instantly blow it on the one yard line. They were about to have their first of four running attempts to take the lead with little time left, instead he chucked the ball on the ground. Then PC wasted a down trying to run from the 7, barely missed Dunn for a TD, and then threw the ball right to Penn State.

[PeaveyFury]

To be fair, they scored 10 points because they had a FG blocked and turned the ball over 3 times in the redzone. If they convert the way they're simply supposed to, they score 20-27 points...

I don't think I was being unfair. The reason it was dismal was because of the reasons you mentioned, not despite them. Having a field goal blocked and three turnovers in the red zone cannot be separated from the team's performance; it WAS the team's performance.

 

That's very fair. Just worth noting that the offense ran a bunch of plays because they successfully moved the ball and set up multiple scores. They didn't convert those opportunities, which is on both the offense and ST. But, the opportunities to score WERE there.

[homer]

Someone asked Chryst about the lack of pre-snap motion against PSU:

 

 

"No, it was kind of what we thought fit the game situation for us last week."

[pacopete4]

Someone asked Chryst about the lack of pre-snap motion against PSU:

 

 

"No, it was kind of what we thought fit the game situation for us last week."

Fire him.

[MrTPlush]

The only logical thing I can take from that is if he felt the team was too stupid to do pre-snap motion without a million false starts or messing up the play. Not sure why else you would intentionally avoid motion.

[tmwiese55]

The only logical thing I can take from that is if he felt the team was too stupid to do pre-snap motion without a million false starts or messing up the play. Not sure why else you would intentionally avoid motion.

 

Especially when it was one of his biggest things in the past when the O was rolling. I don't just mean the guy in motion like a jet sweep action. But he was a huge huge pusher of the get out of the huddle quickly, line up one way, then have like 3-4 people move at once to different spots. Really, it's something that should help a young QB as it's designed to make the D show their hand a bit and probably easily show man vs zone.

[nate82]

Someone asked Chryst about the lack of pre-snap motion against PSU:

 

 

"No, it was kind of what we thought fit the game situation for us last week."

 

That is the dumbest thing I have heard a head coach say in a long time.

[tmwiese55]

I can see disagreeing with not using motion. But the coach giving a completely vanilla answer to "why didn't you do X" by saying "because I didn't think X was the right thing to do" is nowhere close to a laughably dumb answer. It's a complete no-answer coachspeak which is totally common. Guys like Belichek, Popovich, and Saban say the same type of thing all the time.

[pacopete4]

I can see disagreeing with not using motion. But the coach giving a completely vanilla answer to "why didn't you do X" by saying "because I didn't think X was the right thing to do" is nowhere close to a laughably dumb answer. It's a complete no-answer coachspeak which is totally common. Guys like Belichek, Popovich, and Saban say the same type of thing all the time.

 

When he starts winning against good opponents, he can use coach speak all he wants.

[tmwiese55]

I can see disagreeing with not using motion. But the coach giving a completely vanilla answer to "why didn't you do X" by saying "because I didn't think X was the right thing to do" is nowhere close to a laughably dumb answer. It's a complete no-answer coachspeak which is totally common. Guys like Belichek, Popovich, and Saban say the same type of thing all the time.

 

When he starts winning against good opponents, he can use coach speak all he wants.

 

Every coach does it, so to say it's the dumbest thing ever is just off. And yea, he has won a lot of big games. Let's not overreact like they're a disaster or something.

[SomewhereInTime]

I can see disagreeing with not using motion. But the coach giving a completely vanilla answer to "why didn't you do X" by saying "because I didn't think X was the right thing to do" is nowhere close to a laughably dumb answer. It's a complete no-answer coachspeak which is totally common. Guys like Belichek, Popovich, and Saban say the same type of thing all the time.

 

When he starts winning against good opponents, he can use coach speak all he wants.

 

Don't the Badgers have two major bowl wins in the last five years? It's not a big money school and generally recruits poorly. How much more do you reasonably expect?

[pacopete4]

I can see disagreeing with not using motion. But the coach giving a completely vanilla answer to "why didn't you do X" by saying "because I didn't think X was the right thing to do" is nowhere close to a laughably dumb answer. It's a complete no-answer coachspeak which is totally common. Guys like Belichek, Popovich, and Saban say the same type of thing all the time.

 

When he starts winning against good opponents, he can use coach speak all he wants.

 

What a laughable statement.

 

2018: 0-2 vs ranked opponents (Mich, Penn St) and played a lousy schedule) *4 Losses

2019: 3-3 vs. ranked opponents (2 losses to OSU and a bowl loss to Oregon) *4 Losses

2020: 0-3 vs ranked opponents (Loses to- NW, Iowa, Indiana) *3 Losses

2021: 0-1 vs ranked opponents (Penn St.) *1 Loss, so far...

 

3-9 vs. anyone that is any good. We win against lousy programs yearly. We just haven't been very good for a bit now. It's time for a change.

[MrTPlush]

One notable thing about PC, he only has three wins against Michigan/Ohio State/Penn State. All three wins came against Michigan. Of course all three of those years Michigan didn't even end up ranked. The two times Michigan was a decent team the Badgers lost to them.

[tmwiese55]

It's a catch 22, if we beat them you say they're not any good then, so the only good teams are the ones that beat them. He's beat big name programs Mich several times, LSU, USC, MSU probably more than once, Miami twice, division title on the line games vs MN, and we can crap on Iowa if you want but they're a consistent top 25 team we beat more than we lose. OSU is just a different animal and should be taken out of any equation, but has gone to the wire with them twice in recent years. To the wire with top 15 program in Oregon.

 

Concerns are the one odd awful year the last year of Horni. Can chalk last year up to covid in general, but then the O blew again last week so combine last year and last week and it's a concern. As you've seen by my posts there's plenty to criticize and improve but just asking to step off the ledge and keep things in the proper perspective. Say they get spanked by ND and end up the year like 8-4 or worse so it's back to back bad years, yea he deserves some heat on his seat. Especially if the O, passing and QB development continue to flounder. But for the time being let's just take a deep breath.

 

But take a step back, it seems we have this convo every time they lose a game. He was supposed to be fired after the ILL loss then went on to win the division and take OSU and Oregon to the end to finish the year. UW is top 15-20ish program, not top 5-10, that's what it is and will be, set expectations. You're gonna lose to the elite teams like OSU and you're gonna go in the ballpark of .500 vs similar programs to yourself.

 

Also, just looked the OSU games. 3/4 times under PC they've played them legit close, one OT loss in there too. Not like UW is some joke, only took one bad loss to them.

 

The 20 year struggle vs PSU by UW is one of the oddest things, we've been a slight notch ahead of them as a program that whole time yet we've beaten them maybe twice and one was right after the sanctions. Win a couple of those PSU games including the B1G title game would've been a big help for PCs resume, especially the Title, but they blew it. For the OSU/PSU/Mich topic, well just delete OSU. I think PSU/Mich are a combined 1-12ish vs them in that time too.