Wisconsin vs. Penn State game thread

[PinaMadness]

What bothers me about Mertz more than anything is he was locked in on his first read and wouldn't go through his progressions. He just looks like someone not ready to play yet.

[yourout]

What bothers me about Mertz more than anything is he was locked in on his first read and wouldn't go through his progressions. He just looks like someone not ready to play yet.

 

+1...Repetition will fix the ball handling issues but if the mental side of the game doesn't improve dramatically he wont be the starter for long.

That includes reading defenses in the run game and adjusting the blocking to the defensive look. Several time they showed a obvious run blitz and the blocking assignments busted.

[PeaveyFury]

What bothers me about Mertz more than anything is he was locked in on his first read and wouldn't go through his progressions. He just looks like someone not ready to play yet.

 

Really do have to wonder what would have unfolded if Coan hadn't gotten hurt last year. I'm sure the staff was concerned that Mertz wouldn't wait for a starting job and likely would have transferred at some point, but yeah. Mertz looks like a guy that could have been an elite-ish 2-year starter that got thrown in too early and now looks like a deer in the headlights.

[LouisEly]

I don't see any way Bucky stays close to ND. Significant talent gap.

Opinion: Penn State's defense is much better than Notre Dame's.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Wisconsin will do the typical Wisconsin thing which is beat Notre Dame and creep back to #10 after winning a few games, then lose to Iowa or Northwestern or something and end the season with 3 losses and an appearance in the Enron Bowl sponsored by Hallmark.

[PlayerHader]

I like PC but I don't see any way he ever gets us to NDs level. Especially if he doesn't adapt to the game.

Job one is putting Bostad back in charge of the OLine. Move Rudolf somewhere else. Find a good Offensive Coordinator.

 

Outside of a couple of media-fueled playoff/BCS appearances in which they were utterly embarrassed, how have we fallen short of "NDs level" in the past decade or so? Or even 30 years?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I feel like ND and UW are basically the same level for the past 30 years with the Badgers actually being really bad less often. Both get hyped up quite a bit, neither seems to be able to seal the deal. They both strike me as Tier 2 programs that just can't get get into Tier 1.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Wisconsin has benefitted tremendously over the past 10-15 seasons from turmoil amongst the Big Ten's typical Tier 1 programs during their run as an annual 10+ win team - and the fact they've played in the conference divisions over the years that basically guaranteed even an average Badger squad from reaching the Big Ten title game most every year. When they had OSU and Penn State in their division, many of their Big Ten titles came while one or both of those programs were sanctioned or going through coaching staff turmoil - so Bucky got to beat up on an average at best Nebraska squad in Big Ten title games while Michigan still also sucked.

 

With what appears to be very questionable play by their blue chip quarterback during his first season +, I get the sense it may be Bucky's turn to go through a few middling/disappointing seasons where expectations outweigh results - they do still have an advantage of playing in the Big Ten West if they can right the ship and beat Notre Dame a few weeks from now and roll through the rest of their schedule again.

[tmwiese55]

The dilemma on that is they've been recruiting much better than they ever, so in theory they should be set up to do better or at least maintain their dominant place in the West But it sure seems the development along with actual in game offensive coaching is lacking compared to years past, something seems off in the schemes. But let's not forget in the last real season the team did very well, took OSU to the 4th Q in the title game and went to the wire in the Rose Bowl. It's not like they've been crappy.

 

My biggest concern is that after being back for about 6 years the offense is still blah. They've been winning on D this whole time, waiting on the O to show some semblance of the say 2009-11ish type era, or even the Pitt offenses when Chryst was there. To me the O lines have been overrated the whole time they've been back and they haven't really been producing high draft pick or successful lineman since they've been back(compared to say the 08-14 type era), in spite of having higher rated recruits than ever before. Pass blocking has been a consistent struggle. So, to me you have the OL coach on your staff that made all that happen but he's coaching LBs instead. Letting Rudolph go, bring Bostad back over, and then either have PC being the Coordinator or bring in fresh blood/ideas as the OC (obviously with Chryst heavily involved though) would be my 'shake up' if the O continues to stagnate this year, hopefully it doesn't though. Problem is Rudolph and PC are best friends and overall it seems Rudolph is a good person in general and a big part of recruiting.

 

On D, need to replace Nelson asap. He's been bad for years yet keeps getting to play, don't get that one. Other than that, overall any improvement they can get on speed for CBs is the biggest area of growth in general going forward. Their DBs will be the weakness vs elite teams.

[MrTPlush]

To me the O lines have been overrated the whole time they've been back and they haven't really been producing high draft pick or successful lineman since they've been back(compared to say the 08-14 type era), in spite of having higher rated recruits than ever before.

 

On D, need to replace Nelson asap. He's been bad for years yet keeps getting to play, don't get that one. Other than that, overall any improvement they can get on speed for CBs is the biggest area of growth in general going forward. Their DBs will be the weakness vs elite teams.

 

The offensive line is a head scratcher. I started to wonder if the recruiting got lazy and they weren't really trying to branch out of Wisconsin very much. Why dig deep into OT recruiting if you can just get highly ranked WI guys with near zero effort? It is one rare position Wisconsin can really dominant recruiting, yet, the results are not matching.

 

Nelson is terrible. Maybe no one is better, but that guy sure looks lost way too much for the experience he has. Penn State absolutely torched him like it was his first college game ever.

[PlayerHader]

To me the O lines have been overrated the whole time they've been back and they haven't really been producing high draft pick or successful lineman since they've been back(compared to say the 08-14 type era), in spite of having higher rated recruits than ever before.

 

On D, need to replace Nelson asap. He's been bad for years yet keeps getting to play, don't get that one. Other than that, overall any improvement they can get on speed for CBs is the biggest area of growth in general going forward. Their DBs will be the weakness vs elite teams.

 

The offensive line is a head scratcher. I started to wonder if the recruiting got lazy and they weren't really trying to branch out of Wisconsin very much. Why dig deep into OT recruiting if you can just get highly ranked WI guys with near zero effort? It is one rare position Wisconsin can really dominant recruiting, yet, the results are not matching.

 

Nelson is terrible. Maybe no one is better, but that guy sure looks lost way too much for the experience he has. Penn State absolutely torched him like it was his first college game ever.

 

I think safety is a spot where we could definitely benefit from an upgrade in speed/athleticism, but it's a common mistake to blame Nelson for all the breakdowns simply based on the fact that he was the guy we see chasing the WR down. Faion Hicks and Jim Leonhard both stated that Hicks was responsible for the first TD allowed, not Nelson.

[nate82]

 

 

Nelson is terrible. Maybe no one is better, but that guy sure looks lost way too much for the experience he has. Penn State absolutely torched him like it was his first college game ever.

 

The TD wasn't Nelson's fault he wasn't supposed to be covering the guy but he was the only one in position to get to him.

 

There was another play that he was the over the top help and he wasn't as deep as he should have been but when 3 players bite on a pump fake and Nelson not being as deep as he should have been that was just a disaster all around.

[tmwiese55]

Yea, top of my head (and I didn't go back and rewatch) I didn't think the first was on him, the other big ones were. But again, this isn't a one game thing for Nelson. He's been consistently an issue since he's been playing.

 

They do have a high rated young safeties, so improvement there should come at some point, but maybe not this year.

[PlayerHader]

I'll be really curious to see if Hunter Wohler makes his way onto the field more. It sounds intriguing, but most reports seem to point to his strengths currently being physicality and work in the box vs a difference-maker playing deep center field.

 

Travion Blaylock is a guy with more time in the program who we could see take the field, as well.

[CheezWizHed]

Given that our strength is run support (or just our front 7 in general), it is probably the worst thing a safety could do is to bite hard on a run fake.

[homer]

Motion, shifts, play-action will all help make the offensive line look better and probably help receivers get open as well. Not looking for Air Raid or anything like that....just a little more misdirection to confuse and/or slow down the defense a step. I swear they've gone backwards in this regard. It was never a staple of the offense but it seems like they would fake the jet sweep way more often just a year or two ago.

[nate82]

Motion, shifts, play-action will all help make the offensive line look better and probably help receivers get open as well. Not looking for Air Raid or anything like that....just a little more misdirection to confuse and/or slow down the defense a step. I swear they've gone backwards in this regard. It was never a staple of the offense but it seems like they would fake the jet sweep way more often just a year or two ago.

 

If they could add some bunches to the formation or even line up Ferguson in the slot it would help the offense out a bit more. Right now defenses have just a couple of looks they have to game plan for and that is it. Nearly all of the run plays come from the I formation with a few coming out of the pro set and wishbone.

 

If they could also lineup with just the HB in the backfield and run from that it would give some more looks that the defenses will have to game plan for. Also playing Ferguson away from the line would be a nice option especially closer to the end zone. Ferguson being the biggest target and moving him away from the middle of the field where you can run some fade and even some rub routes with him. The offense is lacking movement and a variety of different plays to run this will help by allowing the team to run more simplified plays for Mertz if that is needed. Right now the offense is way to predictable and defenses can just camp the middle of the field basically nullifying both the running game and Ferguson. If the Badgers want to be anything more than what they were against PSU they will need to improve the play calling on offense.

[homer]

I watched a Russell Wilson highlight tape and two things stood out 1) a LOT of play-action and bootleg and 2) our offensive line was bad at pass blocking - Wilson was just amazing

[Fear The Chorizo]

Motion, shifts, play-action will all help make the offensive line look better and probably help receivers get open as well. Not looking for Air Raid or anything like that....just a little more misdirection to confuse and/or slow down the defense a step. I swear they've gone backwards in this regard. It was never a staple of the offense but it seems like they would fake the jet sweep way more often just a year or two ago.

 

Having Melvin Gordon running the jet sweep with Monte' Ball in the backfield, or having anyone running jet sweep with Taylor in the backfield is alot different than what they have now for RB/slot receiver personnel - plus I think the overall athleticism of Badger offensive linemen and fullbacks is really lacking compared to a few years ago that doesn't allow for misdirection plays to work as well as they recently have. They really struggle blocking in space, and I don't think their running backs are near the home run threats that Taylor or Gordon were.

 

To me the Badgers seem like they've lost their offensive identity and their personnel is stuck trying to run a 1980-early 1990's pro style offense with a QB who isn't accurate especially when having to work through his progressions, receivers who are limited athletically to create a ton of space on their own or make plays on jump ball situations, and good-not-great running backs that won't force defenses to stuff 8 men in the box constantly.

[homer]

You could literally play action in an empty backfield and a college linebacker is gonna freeze 9 times out of 10. It's the action not the personnel.

[tmwiese55]

I watched a Russell Wilson highlight tape and two things stood out 1) a LOT of play-action and bootleg and 2) our offensive line was bad at pass blocking - Wilson was just amazing

 

yea number 1 is a huge thing for me the last few years as far as what's gone. One of the things that has made them so predictable. Well, I guess 2 is accurate lately too.

[DuWayne Steurer]

You could literally play action in an empty backfield and a college linebacker is gonna freeze 9 times out of 10. It's the action not the personnel.

 

Yup. You dont have to have 1st team aa's to make motion and play action useful tools in the toolbox.

[Fear The Chorizo]

You could literally play action in an empty backfield and a college linebacker is gonna freeze 9 times out of 10. It's the action not the personnel.

 

Yup. You dont have to have 1st team aa's to make motion and play action useful tools in the toolbox.

 

I think there's a big difference between running motion/jet sweep action on potential running downs to keep weakside backers honest in the run game and occasionally run the jet sweep to create some lateral space in the defense compared to the effectiveness of play action with a quarterback that appears to have issues with both accuracy and reading defenses that are going to more and more zone concepts against the Badgers. If Mertz is too slow to find a spot in the zone to throw a guy open, play action isn't nearly as effective even with the run-heavy offense the Badgers utilize. I agree that presnap motion and misdirection should be utilized more often to try and get a defense out of position and isolate the reads Mertz has to make, but at the end of the day the kid has to be able to make some throws, too.

 

And personnel absolutely does make a difference with these concepts. When they had Taylor, Gordon, or even Ball carrying the ball 25+ times a game behind loaded offensive lines defenses had to sell out on the run all the time - so play action with those guys in the backfield was a guaranteed wide open tight end running down the field at minimum and it made really average quarterbacks look pretty good at times like Hornibrook or Stave just having to make 1 or 2 reads and loft the ball out into wide open gaps in the secondary to let guys run under passes with no fear of safety help over the top. It's only one game this season, but it was showing up last year frequently, too - teams aren't having to sell out against the run to actually slow the Badger run game down lately. That makes play action less effective to begin with because there's more coverage in the defense to start - but compounding the issue is the fact that Mertz isn't making good throws or good reads when having to go through any progressions.

 

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned watching alot of gametape from Wilson's year with the Badgers and how much bootleg and outside the pocket play action was in their offense - that's because it's Wilson's strength to be outside the pocket making plays with his legs and getting away from the trees in the trenches to see downfield - he also had two NFL-caliber WR's to throw to (Toon and Abbredaris), a good TE, a loaded backfield, and their offensive line was full of NFL players - that 2011 offensive roster had considerably more talent than the current roster does, and that was before Wilson even transferred. A senior, NFL-ready quarterback in Wilson compared to the current version of Mertz isn't even a comparison between quarterback talent making plays on a football field right now - and that's

[MrTPlush]

I am a little surprised PC has totally given up on the jet sweep, just cause it was about the only sliver of non-vanilla play calling he had consistently (yes I do realize he called it a few times). Heck he used to do those double sweeps a few years back. He doesn't have an elite back anymore, but he also doesn't have Aaron Cruickshank either. The wife mentioned he was often on the receiving end of those plays...I can't recall, but it makes sense.

 

I can't say I really miss it, other than it bringing some diversity to the play calling. In the Jonathan Taylor days it didn't seem to be that successful. At least not to outweigh the negatives where it gets stuffed and destroys an entire drive. That may be why it is not called as often. This team really can't afford negative plays that cause long 3rd downs or really long 2nd downs.

 

While personnel helps, it isn't everything. Are teams not going to sell out on our run anyway? Why would you not load the box when we constantly run it up the middle, our QB sucks, and we rarely attempt medium to long passes? At the end of the day they are still a run first team.

[yourout]

I think people grossly underappreciated how good Taylor was.

Having a home run hitter in the backfield changes everything.

The guys we have now are okay but really aren't a threat to go 75 yards on any play.