Brewers acquire Daniel Norris from Tigers

[StearnsFTW]

Brewers should DFA him now. He's getting worse with every appearance. He can't be trusted in high leverage situations. So why keep him? If you like him for next year, he'll be available on a minor league deal.

 

The alternative to Norris would be Perdomo/Milner. Do you think they are better options? Certainly Norris hasn't had a good first few outings by any stretch, but shouldn't call for a DFA unless you are convinced one of those guys is better.

 

I think we give Norris a few more chances before we cut ties. And he'll actually probably be easier to hide in the back of the bullpen once September rolls around if he doesn't figure it out before then. Regardless, this is a bit of a miss for Stearns at this point clearly unless something drastically changes.

 

This.

[bork]

Brewers should DFA him now. He's getting worse with every appearance. He can't be trusted in high leverage situations. So why keep him? If you like him for next year, he'll be available on a minor league deal.

 

The alternative to Norris would be Perdomo/Milner. Do you think they are better options? Certainly Norris hasn't had a good first few outings by any stretch, but shouldn't call for a DFA unless you are convinced one of those guys is better.

 

I think we give Norris a few more chances before we cut ties. And he'll actually probably be easier to hide in the back of the bullpen once September rolls around if he doesn't figure it out before then. Regardless, this is a bit of a miss for Stearns at this point clearly unless something drastically changes.

 

The alternative to Norris is a bullpen of Hader, Williams, Cousins, Gustave, Boxberger, Strickland, Sanchez, and Suter who are all better against lefties than Norris this year.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Brewers should DFA him now. He's getting worse with every appearance. He can't be trusted in high leverage situations. So why keep him? If you like him for next year, he'll be available on a minor league deal.

 

The alternative to Norris would be Perdomo/Milner. Do you think they are better options? Certainly Norris hasn't had a good first few outings by any stretch, but shouldn't call for a DFA unless you are convinced one of those guys is better.

 

I think we give Norris a few more chances before we cut ties. And he'll actually probably be easier to hide in the back of the bullpen once September rolls around if he doesn't figure it out before then. Regardless, this is a bit of a miss for Stearns at this point clearly unless something drastically changes.

 

This.

I think they do have better options. The alternative to Norris going forward is Gustave (he will likely be optioned once off COVID), Topa, or Sanchez (optioned when Houser comes off COVID). I think the reason Stearns acquired him was for depth. They didn't know if they could trust all these RH relievers we had with excellent but small sample results. I'm sure they thought he could be a decent reliever but he has not been. Its a small sample, sure, but we gave up a lot for a rental. Reece has been pitching very well for Detroit.

 

I'm not ready to DFA him yet, but I'm close. An ineffective 3rd LH RP << Topa, Sanchez, or Gustave.

[KeithStone53151]

My very speculative guess is Norris is maybe 2-3 bad outings in August away from a DFA. And at this point I'm guessing he's not getting important innings for a while. Assuming no DFA, his next 5-6 outings will probably be in games no closer than 4 runs in either direction.

[Fear The Chorizo]

My very speculative guess is Norris is maybe 2-3 bad outings in August away from a DFA. And at this point I'm guessing he's not getting important innings for a while. Assuming no DFA, his next 5-6 outings will probably be in games no closer than 4 runs in either direction.

 

He won't be DFA'd, simply because the September roster expansions will allow for him to stick with the club and be their option when there's multiple lefty hitters due up in the 6th or 7th inning of a tight ballgame. Unless Norris turns it around significantly or if a series matchup warrants, I doubt he sees a postseason roster at this point, though.

[StearnsFTW]

 

The alternative to Norris would be Perdomo/Milner. Do you think they are better options? Certainly Norris hasn't had a good first few outings by any stretch, but shouldn't call for a DFA unless you are convinced one of those guys is better.

 

I think we give Norris a few more chances before we cut ties. And he'll actually probably be easier to hide in the back of the bullpen once September rolls around if he doesn't figure it out before then. Regardless, this is a bit of a miss for Stearns at this point clearly unless something drastically changes.

 

This.

I think they do have better options. The alternative to Norris going forward is Gustave (he will likely be optioned once off COVID), Topa, or Sanchez (optioned when Houser comes off COVID). I think the reason Stearns acquired him was for depth. They didn't know if they could trust all these RH relievers we had with excellent but small sample results. I'm sure they thought he could be a decent reliever but he has not been. Its a small sample, sure, but we gave up a lot for a rental. Reece has been pitching very well for Detroit.

 

I'm not ready to DFA him yet, but I'm close. An ineffective 3rd LH RP << Topa, Sanchez, or Gustave.

 

I mean, yeah, if you think he won't improve, I agree. But I'd rather give him another month to try to figure it out. I believe he has a chance to be the most useful of the 4 in the long run (maybe Topa, but I believe he'll be given another chance soon).

 

DFA'ing him now would be foolish (not you, the original post I quoted) when others have options. We are in a good position to be able to figure this out on the fly.

[KeithStone53151]

My very speculative guess is Norris is maybe 2-3 bad outings in August away from a DFA. And at this point I'm guessing he's not getting important innings for a while. Assuming no DFA, his next 5-6 outings will probably be in games no closer than 4 runs in either direction.

 

He won't be DFA'd, simply because the September roster expansions will allow for him to stick with the club and be their option when there's multiple lefty hitters due up in the 6th or 7th inning of a tight ballgame. Unless Norris turns it around significantly or if a series matchup warrants, I doubt he sees a postseason roster at this point, though.

 

Roster expansion is only to 28 players. That's 2 adds. So even when that happens he might not be in our top 14-15 arms if he has a few more bad outings. Worth noting, the cardinals are notably right handed...there's a strong chance he doesn't pitch at all this series. This might be an opportunity for him to throw a side bullpen session and try to work on something.

[Jopal78]

The knee jerk reaction to DFA someone after a couple of bad innings is how a pitcher like Phil Bickford is now the 7th inning guy for the Dodgers.

 

With Milwaukee: 2G, 2IP, 6ER, FIP of 13.69.

 

With Los Angeles: 37G, 34.2IP, 8ER, 42K, 5BB, FIP of 2.72, WHIP of 1.07.

[KeithStone53151]

The knee jerk reaction to DFA someone after a couple of bad innings is how a pitcher like Phil Bickford is now the 7th inning guy for the Dodgers.

 

With Milwaukee: 2G, 2IP, 6ER, FIP of 13.69.

 

With Los Angeles: 37G, 34.2IP, 8ER, 42K, 5BB, FIP of 2.72, WHIP of 1.07.

 

Imagine this guy throwing 3-5 scoreless innings against us in a potential NLCS matchup...

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Well sure, but I dont there were many of us calling for Bickford to be DFA'd. In fact many were saying we would have DFA'd others before Bickford. Bickford has multiple years of control.

 

Dan Norris was not good for Detroit and has been worse for us. I agree we should give him more than 5.2 innings to try him out, but he should be on a short leash.

[SomewhereInTime]

The knee jerk reaction to DFA someone after a couple of bad innings is how a pitcher like Phil Bickford is now the 7th inning guy for the Dodgers.

 

With Milwaukee: 2G, 2IP, 6ER, FIP of 13.69.

 

With Los Angeles: 37G, 34.2IP, 8ER, 42K, 5BB, FIP of 2.72, WHIP of 1.07.

 

I don't think Bickford was DFA'd only because of his two bad major league outings. We have coaches that see these guys every day in the minors. The Brewers had multiple seasons of watching the guy and they knew or they thought they knew what they had in the guy and whether he was worth a spot on the 40 man.

[timpep]

The knee jerk reaction to DFA someone after a couple of bad innings is how a pitcher like Phil Bickford is now the 7th inning guy for the Dodgers.

 

With Milwaukee: 2G, 2IP, 6ER, FIP of 13.69.

 

With Los Angeles: 37G, 34.2IP, 8ER, 42K, 5BB, FIP of 2.72, WHIP of 1.07.

 

I don't think Bickford was DFA'd only because of his two bad major league outings. We have coaches that see these guys every day in the minors. The Brewers had multiple seasons of watching the guy and they knew or they thought they knew what they had in the guy and whether he was worth a spot on the 40 man.

 

I think the fact that they actually didn't have much time watching him is what lead to him being released. He pitched a total of 2 innings above high A for the Brewers.

 

Injuries, his weed suspension and COVID are the reasons he never got to show what he had with the Brewers.

 

The fact we lost this guy so we could call up Zack Godley really sucks but you can't win 'em all.

[adambr2]

Yep, even well-run organizations miss from time to time. It does appear we missed badly with Bickford. Hurts a little more for all that we invested in him and as you said lose him for Godley.

 

Not guaranteed he'd be replicating his success here though. The Dodgers may have seen/found something with Bickford that we weren't able to unlock. Sometimes that happens, and sometimes it happens the other way around.

[jerichoholicninja]

Bickford is just as likely to be horrible next year or the rest of this season as he is to continue his success. Such is the life of relief pitchers, as we have all witnessed the last few years. I'm not going to even be concerned about him until he can replicate what's he's done so far over at least another season.

[SomewhereInTime]

The knee jerk reaction to DFA someone after a couple of bad innings is how a pitcher like Phil Bickford is now the 7th inning guy for the Dodgers.

 

With Milwaukee: 2G, 2IP, 6ER, FIP of 13.69.

 

With Los Angeles: 37G, 34.2IP, 8ER, 42K, 5BB, FIP of 2.72, WHIP of 1.07.

 

I don't think Bickford was DFA'd only because of his two bad major league outings. We have coaches that see these guys every day in the minors. The Brewers had multiple seasons of watching the guy and they knew or they thought they knew what they had in the guy and whether he was worth a spot on the 40 man.

 

I think the fact that they actually didn't have much time watching him is what lead to him being released. He pitched a total of 2 innings above high A for the Brewers.

 

Injuries, his weed suspension and COVID are the reasons he never got to show what he had with the Brewers.

 

The fact we lost this guy so we could call up Zack Godley really sucks but you can't win 'em all.

 

Well part of that is due to Covid last year and pitching in simulated games at Appleton as that kind of took the place of the minors last year. But good point, they never really did get a look at him facing AAA or AA hitters and that probably led to a poor evaluation.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Bickford is just as likely to be horrible next year or the rest of this season as he is to continue his success. Such is the life of relief pitchers, as we have all witnessed the last few years. I'm not going to even be concerned about him until he can replicate what's he's done so far over at least another season.

 

The few times we saw Bickford pitch here, he was throwing fastballs with little movement in the upper 80s to low 90s. There was literally nothing he was doing that indicated that he'd ever be anything more than a replaceable, dime-a-dozen reliever. I don't fault the Brewers at all for finally dumping him after sticking by him through all his off-field issues over the years. Perhaps he's found something with the Dodgers ... who knows. I do know, though, that relievers who don't bring much special to the table rarely last long.

[adambr2]

Bickford is just as likely to be horrible next year or the rest of this season as he is to continue his success. Such is the life of relief pitchers, as we have all witnessed the last few years. I'm not going to even be concerned about him until he can replicate what's he's done so far over at least another season.

 

The few times we saw Bickford pitch here, he was throwing fastballs with little movement in the upper 80s to low 90s. There was literally nothing he was doing that indicated that he'd ever be anything more than a replaceable, dime-a-dozen reliever. I don't fault the Brewers at all for finally dumping him after sticking by him through all his off-field issues over the years. Perhaps he's found something with the Dodgers ... who knows. I do know, though, that relievers who don't bring much special to the table rarely last long.

 

Bickford has added quite a bit of velocity (about 94 MPH average on his 4 seamer), is striking out 11 per 9 and peripheral stats are pretty supportive of his breakout. Whatever he found with LA, his performance has been pretty legit and not smoke and mirrors.

[LouisEly]

Well sure, but I dont there were many of us calling for Bickford to be DFA'd.

There aren't many of us calling for Norris to be DFA'd.

 

Bickford was DFA'd because he was out of options and it was early in the season; they hoped to sneak him through. Norris is out of options as well.

[bork]

I don't see the Bickford comparison. Bickford has 5 more years of team control and could have helped in the future. Norris is a free agent at the end of the season and was picked up to help this year, since he won't be around next year. If he's not helping the team win over the next 6 weeks, what's the point?

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I don't see the Bickford comparison. Bickford has 5 more years of team control and could have helped in the future. Norris is a free agent at the end of the season and was picked up to help this year, since he won't be around next year. If he's not helping the team win over the next 6 weeks, what's the point?

 

The team obviously saw something they could fix with him as they have with many pitchers, especially relievers. They very well still may feel the same way. And just last night he pitched a clean inning (1 BB, 2 K) in a game they couldn't have won without clean innings from their pen. So he literally just helped them less than 12 hours ago.

[PeaveyFury]

I think it was hard to fairly evaluate both the Norris and Curtiss acquisitions based on their early performances, because the COVID situation in the bullpen immediately required them to be put into situations that they weren't intended to have to throw in. We'll get to see and more fairly evaluate Curtiss next year, but I'd expect Norris's numbers to stabilize as he's now used more as he was intended.

[jonescm128]

I think it was hard to fairly evaluate both the Norris and Curtiss acquisitions based on their early performances, because the COVID situation in the bullpen immediately required them to be put into situations that they weren't intended to have to throw in. We'll get to see and more fairly evaluate Curtiss next year, but I'd expect Norris's numbers to stabilize as he's now used more as he was intended.

 

I don't think we see Curtiss pitch until 2023

[KeithStone53151]

Ya gotta start somewhere, that's 1 in a row effective appearances from Norris

[Eye Black]

In Daniel Norris last 5 appearances he’s faced 22 batters total and here’s his line over that stretch:

 

6.0 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 6 BB, 7 SO

[jjfanec]

In Daniel Norris last 5 appearances he’s faced 22 batters total and here’s his line over that stretch:

 

6.0 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 6 BB, 7 SO

 

If he can limit the walks to one every other inning I will feel much more comfortable. Still too many free passes but everything else is falling into place