Brewers acquire Daniel Norris from Tigers

[ebmackenzie]

Any good number for Norris comes from facing LH. CC has to hope he can severly limit Norris' exposure to RH batters. He sucks against RH (.333/.412/.520). Nobody in baseball would ever confuse Norris with being anything but a low level reliever. He's better than Perdomo or Milner, so it is a plus for the team.

 

Why are we solely citing 2021 numbers?

 

I will take it a step further.

Why are we looking at any numbers before July? Relievers are fickle and lately he might have focused on just a few pitches to do better, might have moved on the mound from one side to the others, etc... Regardless, Stearns et al see something useful and got it.

 

Since June, he worked low-leverage situations for DET in July and thrived against all comers.

 

This would have been AAshby's role had he not melted in his one call up. That did not work. Suter needs a LHP mate. I love Gustave, MSanchez, and Cousins but they do not have the service time to know how to roll with MLB like an established pitcher (of any degree of success). We got one that will not clog the 40 next year for a player that may or may not make the bigs...such is life in a pennant race.

 

It is my hope that they can focus on something that the Brewers liked on tape, take advantage of superior fielding, catching, and Hook to take some innings off Suter so Suter can be a more effective vulture of wins as well.

[rickh150]

This has to be clearly a lefty vs. lefty move and for those occasions when a couple of lefties are due up in the 6th/7th. By adding Norris a pretty good pitcher, maybe even better than Norris overall, has to go down. I would think Norris has very little rope to do poorly with others waiting in the wings.

[SRB]

There are plenty of innings over the rest of the season for all of the above (most of whom have minor league options remaining), it's not an either-or. The only "hard" roster decision (but a good one to have) comes when we get to our first playoff series.

 

I don't know why people are underrating Norris. He has a .354 BABIP this year, that's not going to continue. Even if you don't want to look at his peripherals this season, last year (in a similar sample size actually) he had a 9.1 K/9, 3.25 ERA, 2.87 FIP.

 

Some people on here like to hate on everything! I guess I could see the disappointment if Norris was supposed to be our "big" trade line acquisition, but he is clearly just an additional weapon to deepen the bullpen, with quite a bit of upside, and we gave up very little to get him.

[rickh150]

There are plenty of innings over the rest of the season for all of the above (most of whom have minor league options remaining), it's not an either-or. The only "hard" roster decision (but a good one to have) comes when we get to our first playoff series.

 

I don't know why people are underrating Norris. He has a .354 BABIP this year, that's not going to continue. Even if you don't want to look at his peripherals this season, last year (in a similar sample size actually) he had a 9.1 K/9, 3.25 ERA, 2.87 FIP.

 

Some people on here like to hate on everything! I guess I could see the disappointment if Norris was supposed to be our "big" trade line acquisition, but he is clearly just an additional weapon to deepen the bullpen, with quite a bit of upside, and we gave up very little to get him.

 

 

He deepens the pen, yes., and the option players can come back this season or next to help out. We agree. And yet you are totally overlooking his stats against lefties the last two seasons! That is the real story…. Whip under 1, ERA around 2. Stats against righties are down right awful if you take out his work against lefties. Loogy.

[brewcrewdue80]

Thinking this acquisition is for September stretch when rosters expand and CC can use Norris frequently to get tough lefty batters out to get out of jams. Don't know if he'll make to many of the playoff rosters. But he'll give the team boost in September. Including that last tough week.

[areacodes]

There are plenty of innings over the rest of the season for all of the above (most of whom have minor league options remaining), it's not an either-or. The only "hard" roster decision (but a good one to have) comes when we get to our first playoff series.

 

I don't know why people are underrating Norris. He has a .354 BABIP this year, that's not going to continue. Even if you don't want to look at his peripherals this season, last year (in a similar sample size actually) he had a 9.1 K/9, 3.25 ERA, 2.87 FIP.

 

Some people on here like to hate on everything! I guess I could see the disappointment if Norris was supposed to be our "big" trade line acquisition, but he is clearly just an additional weapon to deepen the bullpen, with quite a bit of upside, and we gave up very little to get him.

 

 

He deepens the pen, yes., and the option players can come back this season or next to help out. We agree. And yet you are totally overlooking his stats against lefties the last two seasons! That is the real story…. Whip under 1, ERA around 2. Stats against righties are down right awful if you take out his work against lefties. Loogy.

 

How is a .677 OPS against him “down right awful”? Those were his numbers from last year against righties.

[Austin Tatious]

How many years of control do we have on Norris?

[Outlander]

How many years of control do we have on Norris?

Free agent after this season.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

How many years of control do we have on Norris?

2 months. He's a free agent at the end of the year.

 

I like the Curtiss trade better than this one. Not sure this makes our bullpen better as he will be replacing Gustave or Sanchez. It is definitely deeper so there is value there as long as he pitches better than he has this year. Olson is no world beater at this point but I would rather have kept him.

 

Stearns is surely banking on Norris pitching better down the stretch but it seems like we could have gotten him cheaper than this. I assume we are picking up the rest of his contract ($2M+) so not cheap but reasonable.

[KeithStone53151]

I really wanted the brewers to target a lefty reliever at the deadline. We have hader who is the closer, and suter who really doesn't have specifically great lefty splits. So having a guy to face good lefties in the 6-7th innings seemed pretty important to get. Statistically it looks like he can do that, but i have some hope that he's found something over the last month or 2 and can be a real difference maker in the pen down the stretch

[Austin Tatious]

How many years of control do we have on Norris?

Free agent after this season.

 

How many years of control do we have on Norris?

2 months. He's a free agent at the end of the year.

 

Stearns is surely banking on Norris pitching better down the stretch but it seems like we could have gotten him cheaper than this. I assume we are picking up the rest of his contract ($2M+) so not cheap but reasonable.

 

Thanks! Time flies. Seems like yesterday that he was first coming up as a starter.

[rickh150]

There are plenty of innings over the rest of the season for all of the above (most of whom have minor league options remaining), it's not an either-or. The only "hard" roster decision (but a good one to have) comes when we get to our first playoff series.

 

I don't know why people are underrating Norris. He has a .354 BABIP this year, that's not going to continue. Even if you don't want to look at his peripherals this season, last year (in a similar sample size actually) he had a 9.1 K/9, 3.25 ERA, 2.87 FIP.

 

Some people on here like to hate on everything! I guess I could see the disappointment if Norris was supposed to be our "big" trade line acquisition, but he is clearly just an additional weapon to deepen the bullpen, with quite a bit of upside, and we gave up very little to get him.

 

 

He deepens the pen, yes., and the option players can come back this season or next to help out. We agree. And yet you are totally overlooking his stats against lefties the last two seasons! That is the real story…. Whip under 1, ERA around 2. Stats against righties are down right awful if you take out his work against lefties. Loogy.

 

How is a .677 OPS against him “down right awful”? Those were his numbers from last year against righties.

 

You are right with the 20 innings against RHP in 2020. Yeah, that’s pretty good.

[Mass Haas]

We see you, Reese Olson

[bork]

Can they just admit it was a mistake and DFA him when one of the pitchers returns from the covid list?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Can they just admit it was a mistake and DFA him when one of the pitchers returns from the covid list?

 

They won't ... and shouldn't.

 

Go take a look at the first few outings Pomeranz had for the Brewers if you want proof why they shouldn't.

[JohnBriggs12]

Can they just admit it was a mistake and DFA him when one of the pitchers returns from the covid list?

 

They won't ... and shouldn't.

 

Go take a look at the first few outings Pomeranz had for the Brewers if you want proof why they shouldn't.

 

Pomeranz was a lot better his first few outings. He fanned 5 in his first 2 innings, both scoreless. His third appearance was a 3 inning start. Only hit he allowed was a HR, but he fanned 3 and Brewers won the game easily. In the appearance he allowed 2 runs, they scored when Hader gave up a 3 run HR.

 

Brewers should DFA him now. He's getting worse with every appearance. He can't be trusted in high leverage situations. So why keep him? If you like him for next year, he'll be available on a minor league deal.

 

Pomeranz was a much more accomplished pitcher with winning teams.

[adambr2]

Norris has already given up as many earned runs for us as Pomeranz did his entire Brewer tenure.

 

Pomeranz was a conversion project who had a better fastball and benefited greatly from the move from the rotation to the pen.

 

I'm not saying Norris should be DFAed now (although it wouldn't bother me if they just moved on), but Pomeranz has really put our expectations for Norris out of whack. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. Sometimes you get Matt Albers instead of Drew Pomeranz.

[KeithStone53151]

Brewers should DFA him now. He's getting worse with every appearance. He can't be trusted in high leverage situations. So why keep him? If you like him for next year, he'll be available on a minor league deal.

 

The alternative to Norris would be Perdomo/Milner. Do you think they are better options? Certainly Norris hasn't had a good first few outings by any stretch, but shouldn't call for a DFA unless you are convinced one of those guys is better.

 

I think we give Norris a few more chances before we cut ties. And he'll actually probably be easier to hide in the back of the bullpen once September rolls around if he doesn't figure it out before then. Regardless, this is a bit of a miss for Stearns at this point clearly unless something drastically changes.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Can they just admit it was a mistake and DFA him when one of the pitchers returns from the covid list?

 

They won't ... and shouldn't.

 

Go take a look at the first few outings Pomeranz had for the Brewers if you want proof why they shouldn't.

 

Pomeranz was a lot better his first few outings. He fanned 5 in his first 2 innings, both scoreless. His third appearance was a 3 inning start. Only hit he allowed was a HR, but he fanned 3 and Brewers won the game easily. In the appearance he allowed 2 runs, they scored when Hader gave up a 3 run HR.

 

Brewers should DFA him now. He's getting worse with every appearance. He can't be trusted in high leverage situations. So why keep him? If you like him for next year, he'll be available on a minor league deal.

 

Pomeranz was a much more accomplished pitcher with winning teams.

 

I consider "a few" to be 5-6 outings. Pomeranz gave up a run in 2/3 of an inning against the Rangers on Aug. 10, then a couple more against the Rangers in 1/3 of an inning on Aug. 13 following that run he gave up in his spot start. Then he went into ace reliever mode basically through the end of the season.

 

Norris isn't real far off that trajectory right now. He has a good arm, and I expect them to give him several more chances. He was very good for the Tigers from July 10 through the trade deadline. If he falters, you move on. Eventually. Not after less than 6 innings total.

[Outlander]

Brewers should DFA him now. He's getting worse with every appearance. He can't be trusted in high leverage situations. So why keep him? If you like him for next year, he'll be available on a minor league deal.

 

The alternative to Norris would be Perdomo/Milner. Do you think they are better options? Certainly Norris hasn't had a good first few outings by any stretch, but shouldn't call for a DFA unless you are convinced one of those guys is better.

 

I think we give Norris a few more chances before we cut ties. And he'll actually probably be easier to hide in the back of the bullpen once September rolls around if he doesn't figure it out before then. Regardless, this is a bit of a miss for Stearns at this point clearly unless something drastically changes.

The alternative for the playoffs would probably be Ashby.

[adambr2]

Brewers should DFA him now. He's getting worse with every appearance. He can't be trusted in high leverage situations. So why keep him? If you like him for next year, he'll be available on a minor league deal.

 

The alternative to Norris would be Perdomo/Milner. Do you think they are better options? Certainly Norris hasn't had a good first few outings by any stretch, but shouldn't call for a DFA unless you are convinced one of those guys is better.

 

I think we give Norris a few more chances before we cut ties. And he'll actually probably be easier to hide in the back of the bullpen once September rolls around if he doesn't figure it out before then. Regardless, this is a bit of a miss for Stearns at this point clearly unless something drastically changes.

 

I don't know that we necessarily need a direct replacement for any of those guys.

 

Situational LOOGYs are kind of dead anyway. If they have a 3rd lefty pitching out of the pen in late September and October I think it will be Ashby.

[KeithStone53151]

Fair point, I won't say I forgot about Ashby but didn't really consider him when thinking about a replacement for Norris. That said, I honestly don't think any of the above will get into a playoff game regardless...at least a game we are winning. Nobody we are discussing is a top 5-6 option out of the pen or a starter.

 

I'm generally not thrilled with Perdomo/Milner as a better option than Norris yet, and Ashby probably is but for now I think keeping him stretched out is better until we have our top 6 starting options back from the COVID thing. Even considering that, I'm expecting Houser and Lauer to start pitching less innings and shifting into bullpen roles(2-3 innings at a time) that they will more likely see in the postseason.

[bork]

Doesn't it come down to putting the best 13 pitchers out there? Who gets sent down when Gustave and Houser come back?

 

Do they option Gustave and Sanchez and keep Norris? Is sounds like Gustave is getting close.

[Outlander]

I don't think it always come down to the best, sometimes it is about options and depth. My guess is they would option Sanchez and Gustave before getting rid of Norris.

[patrickgpe]

You keep Norris, he was brought in to get lefties out. I agree option Sanchez and Gustave. Maybe one of those guys come up when they go to 28, but I said in the other thread i'm guessing Topa is #28 in September.