Gallardo is Better Than Bush/Vargas.

[brewmann04]

what to do with Yo once Cappy comes back. it going to be a very difficult decision.

[sweepscc]

After seeing Yo the last two outings it doesn't seem like too difficult of a decision. Trade Vargas/Bush and Capellan and prospect if needed for set up man. Hopefully we can find a dance partner.

[sbrylski]

Thanks, Gallardo, for filling in. You did an excellent job. Now, stay sharp in AAA, we'll see you in about a month or so. An arm like yours will be exactly what we need to solidify the pen. Don't worry, we don't want to overwork your arm either. You'll be set up nicely to take on a starting spot in 2008. I'm sure Doug will open up a hole for you, Vargas is going to cost quite a bit more per win than any of our other starters would next season...

[sweepscc]

Your boy better keep it up because the crew is 11-2 when Vargas toes the rubber. It might be bye bye Bush. I kind of want to see your meltdown now. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[logan82]

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Thanks, Gallardo, for filling in. You did an excellent job. Now, stay sharp in AAA, we'll see you in about a month or so. An arm like yours will be exactly what we need to solidify the pen. Don't worry, we don't want to overwork your arm either. You'll be set up nicely to take on a starting spot in 2008. I'm sure Doug will open up a hole for you, Vargas is going to cost quite a bit more per win than any of our other starters would next season...

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I agree except for the bringing up YoGa in a month or 2. Unless we really need a few wins pretty bad I am all for leaving YoGa in AAA the rest of the year. I would be willing to bet we see him again before the end of the year because of another injury.

[iluvlamp]

It already looks like Gallardo is better than Bush and Vargas. I would stick with him. I feel Vargas to the pen is best. Yes, we win when he pitches but that has to be fluke. Not to say he is bad, but he always has runners on and that will not change. Unless he has the best season of his career. Don't know his WHIP offhand but it's probably not ideal. I am in favor of having the best players available. Why waste his talent in the minors when it sure seems he's ready for the bigs.

[logan82]

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Why waste his talent in the minors when it sure seems he's ready for the bigs.

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I understand that argument, but I don't think YoGa will add enough wins to make any difference in our post season positioning. I would rather coast into the post season with what we have and save his service time for a few years down the road when we loose Sheets, Cappy and Suppan. As for pitching in the post season I don't think he is any better than Sheets or Cappy. He might be better than Suppan, but Soup has invaluable postseason experience.

[brewcrew00]

He should definitely remain up in the big show. I know it was KC but the kid can pitch. He understands the game, and there's no reason his talent should just sit and waste in AAA.

[BraunsBoyfriend]

He can flat out pitch. He paints the corners well, has a tremendous breaking ball and works batters real well.

 

The only reason I could imagine sending him back would be because we don't want to over use him. He's 21 or 22 and the arm is still a tender thing at this point.

 

But I'm not a doctor or close to the team to make this call. I'd expect they wouldn't risk blowing this kids arm just to have him in the rotation. And his agent must be in tune to this too. He's going to advocate the team do what's in YoGa's best interests.

 

As for ability? He can pitch. He'll have ups and downs but with that kind of command and that breaking ball, he's got a future. He should only be sent down if there are concerns he would get too much work up here.

 

But you could also suppose that the MLB team is going to have superior facilities, training staff and monitoring tools so being up here could be better in the long run.

[Ennder]

Bush with a 3.23 ERA, .655 OPS against in his past 5 starts. Most importantly he's gone 5+ IP in 14 of 15 starts, 6+ in 10 of 15, 7+ in 5 of 14 for an average of 6.2 IP per start.

 

Vargas has gone 4.71 ERA, .880 OPS against in his past 5 starts. He's gone 5+ IP in 11 of 13 starts, 6+ in 6 of 13 and 7+ in 0 of 13 starts for an average of 5.3 IP per start.

 

If Gallardo stays up its pretty much a no brainer who goes to the bullpen in my book.

[Team Canada]

Keep in mind that Gallardo is going to start every 5 days at Nashville like he is here, so sending him back down isn't somehow going to make him pitch less innings, unless he doesn't come back up when the AAA season is over.

 

Given that, I really see no reason for him to go back down. 2 games is a small sample, but he clearly knows how to pitch. The logical conclusion in my mind is that for some period of time he's going to have to be in the bullpen.

[DougJones43]

The logical conclusion in my mind is that for some period of time he's going to have to be in the bullpen.

 

What if we made him the #5 starter, and skipped him whenever possible? Has anyone run the numbers to see how many starts (and probable innings) he would end up with under such a scenario?

 

Gallardo has been conditioned for a long time to be a starting pitcher. I guess I worry that moving him to the bullpen and then back to starter next year:

 

a. Could mess up his mechanics, rhythm, and arm more than just going a few too many innings this year would

b. Will limit his innings too much, to the point where he won't be "stretched out" enough to pitch all year as a starter next year

[sbrylski]

What if we made him the #5 starter, and skipped him whenever possible? Has anyone run the numbers to see how many starts (and probable innings) he would end up with under such a scenario?

 

I believe someone did it and it came out to about the 175 total that we are looking for, so yeah its an option. But then he'd be sitting for two weeks at a time not getting any work. I'd rather see him in the pen, where we can use him, one of our best pitchers, during critical moments.

[DougJones43]

I'd rather see him in the pen, where we can use him, one of our best pitchers, during critical moments.

 

I guess I differ with you on that. I'd rather see him still making starts (even if they are somewhat sporadic) than move to the bullpen. I think that skipping starts would be less of an overall adjustment to his game than trying to turn him into a bullpen pitcher for half of a season. Like I said, he's conditioned to be a starter. Moving to the pen is a completely different way of pitching.

 

That's really just a theory and a guess on my part though. I might be wrong.

[sbrylski]

Fair enough, DJ, I see you point.

 

Moving to the pen is completely different way of pitching.

 

This is what I'm not sure of as well. I've assumed moving to the bullpen and then back to starter after the offseason wouldn't be nearly as big a deal as some have made it out to be. But same here, just a theory and a guess. I might be wrong.

[iluvlamp]

Villy did it so I can see the value. Gallardo just seems to be ready and I might be wronghttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[DougJones43]

Wow. 3 people in a row admitting they might be wrong about something. That has to be a new brewerfan record.

 

 

Villy did it so I can see the value.

 

Yeah, but Villy hasn't attempted to transform back into a starter yet. That will be the real test (if that's what the organization wants him to do). He's on pace for just over 100 innings pitched this year, so trying to stretch him back out to being a starter could prove difficult.

 

It's possible the Brewers would be okay with Villy in a bullpen role longterm though, so it might not ever be an issue. We pretty much know that's not the case with Gallardo though.

[DougJones43]

Also, Vargas seems to be an ideal guy to move to the bullpen. He doesn't fit into the Brewers longterm plans, and he usually can't even go more than 5 innings or so as a starter anyway.

[sbrylski]

He's on pace for just over 100 innings pitched this year, so trying to stretch him back out to being a starter could prove difficult.

 

Exactly why I'd rather have him move into the rotation than Gallardo. I also wouldn't mind seeing him just keep pitching into the 8th instead of pulling him for Turnbow. Bring Villy in in the 5th-7th, leave him in until we get to Cordero.

 

If Villanueva spends the entire season in the pen, it might not be smart to consider him an option for the rotation next season. Then again, it doesn't really look like we'll need him there, barring injury. He could definately be a 1/2 season injury replacement starter.

[BillScottCanRake]

I believe someone did it and it came out to about the 175 total that we are looking for, so yeah its an option.

 

That was 175 regular season innings, right? I'd hate to use up all his innings during the regular season when there are innings to be had in October. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

I don't know what the answers are, but I want Gallardo to be able to pitch during the post season without exceeding his innings ceiling. I suspect that to do that he'll need to spend some time in the pen.

[1992casey]

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After seeing Yo the last two outings it doesn't seem like too difficult of a decision. Trade Vargas/Bush and Capellan and prospect if needed for set up man. Hopefully we can find a dance partner.

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A useful starter, a reliever, and a prospect for a setup man? I think adding Gallardo or Vargas to the current bullpen can easily provide a boost from potentially several angles.

 

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It already looks like Gallardo is better than Bush and Vargas.

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I wouldn't be surprised. But keep in mind that the difference between Yo and Bush/Vargas may not be all that significant.

 

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Keep in mind that Gallardo is going to start every 5 days at Nashville like he is here, so sending him back down isn't somehow going to make him pitch less innings, unless he doesn't come back up when the AAA season is over.

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There are some options available in Nashville that wouldn't be very feasible in Milwaukee. For instance, in AAA, management could decide to pitch him on 6 days rest for a span or give him a couple of 60-pitch starts.

 

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That was 175 regular season innings, right? I'd hate to use up all his innings during the regular season when there are innings to be had in October.

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I agree. I think the way to go would be to try to come in about 10 innings under whatever 'goal' the team has set for the regular season. If he pitches 20 innings in the playoffs after that, I'd figure we're fine.

 

 

By the way, the Gallardo and limiting his innings thread is still available if people would prefer to use it.

[tigerbrew]

For me, Yo is a better pitcher than both Bush and Vargas, and he should remain in the rotation ahead of them. I would not send Yo back to AAA or move him to the bullpen, to make room for Cappy.

 

Bush and Vargas are still two of our better pitchers in the staff. Moving either one of them to reliever will improve our bullpen, which is an area the Brewers need to strengthen.

[Fatter than Joey]

To follow up with what TC had said -- I believe the Brewers brain trust is going to let Gallardo pitch "X" amount of innings -- where X has very little variance -- that said -- I am pretty sure I would rather see Gallardo pitch those innings in Milw. rather than Nashville.

 

Gallardo would be hard pressed to provide better results than Vargas, but I think he is a better pitcher than Bush or Vargas, furthermore I think YG is better than any pitcher not named Sheets or Cordero -- that is to say, that I am pretty happy with him pitching in the BP or starting. If he has 100 (or so) more innings left in him for 2007, I'd rather see those at the MLB level.

[splitterpfj]

It's ironic to me, there's Suppan, with the big contract, getting hit...while we debate who's spot Gallardo should take to stay in Milwaukee.

[JohnBriggs12]

The correct move is Vargas to the pen, with Capellan optioned back to Nashville. Now if they had a glaring need elsewhere, you trade Vargas, but they don't right now.

 

The argument for keeping Vargas in the rotation is that they are winning most of his starts. But those wins are coming at a cost. When he fails to get through the 6th inning with leads, the entire bullpen is needed to nail down the win and that shows up the next day or the day after when Yost doesn't have the full compliment of relievers and has to use Spurling in a tight game.

 

Of course Suppan has been worse than Vargas, but they have a huge investment in him and he has a track record in big games.

 

Now nothing says that if Bush starts to struggle again or Capuano struggles, that Vargas can't be moved back and they do have a double header in late July when a 6th starter will be needed.