Starting Rotation to All Star Break.

[BruisedCrew]

With 8 more games before the ASB, is Counsell going to stick with the 6 man rotation, or will he go to a 5 man to set up the top 3 to start the big Reds series?

 

If he stays with the 6 man rotation it would be Woodruff, TBD, and Burnes vs the Mets, then Houser, Lauer, Peralta, and Woodruff against the Reds.

 

With a 5 man rotation it could be Woodruff, Burnes, and Houser against the Mets, and Lauer, Peralta, Woodruff, and Burnes against the Reds.

 

I hate the idea of having Houser and Lauer starting the first two games of the Reds series, especially since they have not faced Burnes yet this year. After the recent sweep, I want to see the Brewers take at least two against the Reds to keep them from getting too much confidence against the Brewers. With Anderson out, I also hate to see another bullpen sapping TBD start heading into that series.

 

With the ASB coming up I don’t think using the starters on 4 days rest should cause any longer term problems.

[wibadgers23]

With the all star break coming up, I hope they stick with a 5 man. I like the idea of Burnes, Peralta and Woodruff all going in that Reds series. That one has me a bit worried.

[pacopete4]

Stick with what’s working.

[Eye Black]

Assuming everyone remains healthy, I think this is what we’ll see until the All Star break:

 

July 4 (@Pirates): Peralta

July 5 (@ Mets): Woodruff

July 6 (@ Mets): Anderson/Bullpen

July 7 (@ Mets): Burnes

July 8 (Reds): Houser

July 9 (Reds): Lauer

July 10 (Reds): Peralta

July 11 (Reds): Woodruff

 

July 13 (All Star Game)

 

July 16 (First Game Post All Star Break vs. Reds)

 

Assume they’ll reset the rotation post All-Star break? For the remainder of July they have off days on July 19, 22, and 26, so they could get away from the 6-man rotation for a couple of weeks without sacrificing the extra day of rest for the other starters.

[tigerbrew]

Lauer has done a decent job as the 6th starter.

[pacopete4]

Lauer is just fine. Anderson when back is just fine. Houser is solid. And then the top 3 are awesome. Just keep going with 6 and keep all healthy and ready for playoffs.

[LouisEly]

Lauer is just fine. Anderson when back is just fine. Houser is solid. And then the top 3 are awesome. Just keep going with 6 and keep all healthy and ready for playoffs.

'zactly. They're 8 games up; make the Reds and Cubs burn through their rotation and bullpen trying to catch up. Plenty of off days once they get to the All-Star break and the 3 weeks after where a 6th starter won't be needed in order to have 5 days rest between starts.

[rickh150]

On the Brewers website, it has the following….

Monday- Woodruff

Tuesday- Anderson (vs de Grom)

Wednesday- Burnes

[BruisedCrew]

In the last month the Reds have swept series from the Cardinals (4 on the road), Brewers (3 on the road) and Cubs (3 at home). Their starting pitching is now very solid, their bullpen is improved, and their offense is explosive.

 

I have thought for awhile that, if they could get their pitching straightened out, they would be the Brewers toughest competition in the division, and that seems to have happened. The seven head to head games coming up against the Reds is a golden opportunity for them to vault up in the standings. I hate to see the Brewers give them a boost by creating favorable pitching matchups for them by opening a series with their fourth and sixth starters. That didn’t work in the last series when the areas shelled Lauer early and used it as a springboard to the sweep, so why try it again if you don’t have to? The Reds will be getting their fourth look at Peralta before they face either Woodruff or Burnes once.

[wildcat83]

There’s no way you start to play match up games with the rotation pre all star break. They will pitch on their scheduled days as they should.

[pacopete4]

I think some of our fans worry more about opposing teams than the Brewers do.

[BruisedCrew]

There’s no way you start to play match up games with the rotation pre all star break. They will pitch on their scheduled days as they should.

 

It wasn’t a coincidence that Quintana pitched against the Brewers every series when Maddon was managing the Cubs. It’s not like I’m talking about making a major adjustment, just pitching some guys on a fifth instead of sixth day to maximize the team’s chances against a division contender.

 

It would be a shame to fritter away 3 or 5 games of a division lead by not fielding the best team possible. Is Counsell going to give Woodruff and Burnes the weekend after the ASG off too to allow them to recover from those festivities?

[rickh150]

I want Burnes healthy and pitching against the Reds after the break. If that means throwing him only five innings Wednesday, so be it. Skip the start would be fine with me too since he was asking out of his last start.

I hope Woodruff gets to pitch on regular rest (6 man rotation) on Sunday and then again against the Reds after the break.

[rickh150]

I think some of our fans worry more about opposing teams than the Brewers do.

 

Because they want to strategically line up starters to face certain teams?

[DuWayne Steurer]

Assuming everyone remains healthy, I think this is what we’ll see until the All Star break:

 

July 4 (@Pirates): Peralta

July 5 (@ Mets): Woodruff

July 6 (@ Mets): Anderson/Bullpen

July 7 (@ Mets): Burnes

July 8 (Reds): Houser

July 9 (Reds): Lauer

July 10 (Reds): Peralta

July 11 (Reds): Woodruff

 

July 13 (All Star Game)

 

July 16 (First Game Post All Star Break vs. Reds)

 

Assume they’ll reset the rotation post All-Star break? For the remainder of July they have off days on July 19, 22, and 26, so they could get away from the 6-man rotation for a couple of weeks without sacrificing the extra day of rest for the other starters.

 

I don't think so much it's the days of rest that's the main concern. I'm assuming that the main goal is limiting the total body of work.

[BruisedCrew]

Assuming everyone remains healthy, I think this is what we’ll see until the All Star break:

 

July 4 (@Pirates): Peralta

July 5 (@ Mets): Woodruff

July 6 (@ Mets): Anderson/Bullpen

July 7 (@ Mets): Burnes

July 8 (Reds): Houser

July 9 (Reds): Lauer

July 10 (Reds): Peralta

July 11 (Reds): Woodruff

 

July 13 (All Star Game)

 

July 16 (First Game Post All Star Break vs. Reds)

 

Assume they’ll reset the rotation post All-Star break? For the remainder of July they have off days on July 19, 22, and 26, so they could get away from the 6-man rotation for a couple of weeks without sacrificing the extra day of rest for the other starters.

 

I don't think so much it's the days of rest that's the main concern. I'm assuming that the main goal is limiting the total body of work.

 

Sure, but my point is that a team should be able to do that while still having its best starting pitchers get starts as often as reasonably possible against the teams that are its direct competitors for the division title. For the Brewers those teams are the Reds, Cubs, and Cardinals. The Brewers are finishing up their most difficult stretch of the season in terms of off days with 33 games in 34 days, and they have made an obvious effort to not overtax their starters during that stretch. Anderson’s and Lauer’s injuries, and Burnes COVID break earlier in the season, have forced them to resort to what amounts to a 7th starter in some games already this season.

 

All I’m saying is that there should be a way to use the team’s top starters more often against those top division rivals, even if it requires a little shuffling, without adversely affecting the long term workload. It seems kind of ridiculous that, with the projected starters for the upcoming weekend, the Brewers starters for the 13 games against the Reds will be:

 

Peralta 4

Houser 3

Anderson 3

Lauer 2

Woodruff 1

Burnes 0

 

So far, the Brewers are 2-1 in the games started by Peralta, and 2-4 in the games started by the back end of the rotation. In 3 of those 4 losses against the back end starters, the Reds jumped to big early leads.

 

I just think that the Brewers are giving the Reds an advantage that they don’t have to give them. I know I always take note when the Brewers have a series in which they “miss” one of the opponent’s top starters, and feel like that gives the Brewers an edge in the series. The Reds are getting that edge in every series against the Brewers. If the Reds make a run at the division title, that edge could be decisive.

[Eye Black]

I don't think so much it's the days of rest that's the main concern. I'm assuming that the main goal is limiting the total body of work.

Well it’s an interesting question, and the answer might very well be both. Early in the season when there were a bunch of off days they stuck with a 5-man rotation. Then they inserted the 6th starter when there were longer stretches without off days. Most of the references I can find that have been made to the reasoning mention the “extra day of rest”, but that’s not to say the lessened season workload isn’t also a big part of the equation.

 

A random collection of quotes from this year…

 

Link: Craig Counsell said Eric Lauer earned another start after five scoreless innings Thursday. He prefers to keep starters on five days rest for the long term, but when circumstances require they will adjust.

 

 

Link: So far, things have gone according to plan. Thanks to a bevy of off-days over the first few weeks of the season, Counsell has been able to give each of his starters an extra day of rest for all but one turn through the rotation.

 

 

Link: Brewers president of baseball operations David Stearns said the plan to continue giving extra rest was discussed before setting up the starters for the Cubs series and it was agreed to stick with a formula that has worked well.

 

“We talked about it both ways,” he said. “This is the way we’ve rolled with it so far. It’s worked so far. I would imagine we’ll get to a point in the season where we’ll ask a little more of our starters. We’re not at that point right now.

 

Asked if there was debate about using Burnes against the Cubs, Stearns said, “Sure. We talked about it as we saw this coming after Brett (Anderson) went down (with a knee injury). We started our discussion, but this is what makes sense. This is the right thing to do. And it will benefit us in the long run.

 

“All of these guys are going to surpass any sort of incremental innings increase. We are cognizant of that. I wish I could say there was great science behind all of these decisions. But a lot of these decisions are based on a combination of what we understand from a medical perspective and just subjective judgment.

 

 

Link: The Brewers remain committed to keeping their starters on five days' rest.

[KeithStone53151]

Nice collection of quotes. I'm firmly in the keep the rest rolling camp. It won't be noticed, but I think we'll generally be glad we did so in September and hopefully beyond. No sense in pushing these guys with an 8 game lead. I feel like we're setting up really well for the 2nd half with the rest we're getting

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think some of our fans worry more about opposing teams than the Brewers do.

 

Because they want to strategically line up starters to face certain teams?

 

Because they want to do it in June/July. I highly doubt most MLB teams worry about that sort of thing until late August at the absolute earliest.

[BruisedCrew]

I think some of our fans worry more about opposing teams than the Brewers do.

 

Because they want to strategically line up starters to face certain teams?

 

Because they want to do it in June/July. I highly doubt most MLB teams worry about that sort of thing until late August at the absolute earliest.

 

Most teams are using 5 man rotations in June and July so this isn’t an issue for them. Most teams don’t also have 2 (and arguably 3) All Star caliber starting pitchers with a pretty big drop off from there.

 

Maybe the payoff will come later in the season if and when the Brewers starters are in better shape than their division rivals. But, if the Brewers see their division lead evaporating as quickly as it appeared while giving half of the starts to the 4th through 6th (and sometimes 7th) starters, there’s going to be some questioning of this unconventional strategy. What works against the Rockies, DBacks, and Pirates (or when the team scores in double digits) may not work so well against better teams, like it didn’t with the Reds, the only team with a winning record the Brewers have faced since May. I wonder if any other team in MLB has played a division rival 12 times before throwing either of their top 2 pitchers at them.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Most teams are using 5 man rotations in June and July so this isn’t an issue for them. Most teams don’t also have 2 (and arguably 3) All Star caliber starting pitchers with a pretty big drop off from there.

 

Maybe the payoff will come later in the season if and when the Brewers starters are in better shape than their division rivals. But, if the Brewers see their division lead evaporating as quickly as it appeared while giving half of the starts to the 4th through 6th (and sometimes 7th) starters, there’s going to be some questioning of this unconventional strategy. What works against the Rockies, DBacks, and Pirates (or when the team scores in double digits) may not work so well against better teams, like it didn’t with the Reds, the only team with a winning record the Brewers have faced since May. I wonder if any other team in MLB has played a division rival 12 times before throwing either of their top 2 pitchers at them.

 

The only reason there is any sort of drop-off, though, is because Woody, Burnes and Peralta have been so terrific. Houser, Lauer and Anderson have been perfectly fine as back-end starters, and they are all guys who are going to play a significant role in the 2nd half, against good teams as well as those that aren't so good. I doubt that there is any team who has played a division rival 12 times, and not thrown their top two guys. But that is likely purely coincidental, and at the same time, pretty cool too. I'm simply arguing that the Brewers are likely not going to make any attempt to line up starters for certain matchups until much later in the season. You may not agree, but they seem to feel that keeping these guys on a certain routine is a better idea than playing matchup right now.

[rickh150]

Most teams are using 5 man rotations in June and July so this isn’t an issue for them. Most teams don’t also have 2 (and arguably 3) All Star caliber starting pitchers with a pretty big drop off from there.

 

Maybe the payoff will come later in the season if and when the Brewers starters are in better shape than their division rivals. But, if the Brewers see their division lead evaporating as quickly as it appeared while giving half of the starts to the 4th through 6th (and sometimes 7th) starters, there’s going to be some questioning of this unconventional strategy. What works against the Rockies, DBacks, and Pirates (or when the team scores in double digits) may not work so well against better teams, like it didn’t with the Reds, the only team with a winning record the Brewers have faced since May. I wonder if any other team in MLB has played a division rival 12 times before throwing either of their top 2 pitchers at them.

 

 

 

 

Pretty much agreeing with everything here…..starting Burnes on Thursday instead of Wednesday gives him even MORE rest AND allows one of our best to face the Reds in back to back series.

[rickh150]

I think some of our fans worry more about opposing teams than the Brewers do.

 

Because they want to strategically line up starters to face certain teams?

 

Because they want to do it in June/July. I highly doubt most MLB teams worry about that sort of thing until late August at the absolute earliest.

 

Worry about? I agree with you that teams aren’t worrying about scheduling and pitching choices. Yet, strategic talks on the rotation are happening at all times at all levels of the organization, I have to believe. I would think rotation set up is a constant issue discussed based on opponent, schedule, off days, recent call ups, overuse of bullpen, and player’s health. It’s why CC and other managers don’t announce the starters a week ahead of time, just a few days. All these factors play in time.

 

I find it highly interesting that the Brewers are now doing the 6th man rotation over the last month or so during their easiest strength of schedule games, when they have few off days, and when Leuer/Houser/Anderson are pitching relatively well. It won’t work if we have regular blow ups like Ashby had.

 

So, of course they are thinking about these matchups with certain teams in June/July. But To totally reconfigure a rotation so that our top 3 pitch against a certain team during a three game July series of a 162 game schedule? No. There are other games to be played.

[BruisedCrew]

I’m not talking about a total reconfiguration of the rotation, but rather a small tweaking (which could have been done a week or two ago) to avoid having Houser and Lauer, the 4th and 6th starters , start the first two games of an important four game series against the Reds. The tweaking could have been achieved by having a pitcher go on just 4 days rest while another gets an extra day, or using someone from the Nashville shuttle to start a game against a team that is not a division contender.

 

The All Star break, and the 3 off days in the 11 days after it, provide a perfect opportunity to reset the rotation while still giving everyone some additional rest. I’m not going to be pleased if Burnes and Woodruff don’t both get a start in the series in Cincinnati right after the break. After that series, there are 3 weeks before the next series against one of the other division contenders. It would seem to be a no brainer to use Woodruff, Burnes, and Peralta against the Reds in some order, and then throw Houser and either Anderson or Lauer in the two games against KC. Then the top 3 could come back the next weekend against the White Sox. Whichever of Anderson or Lauer doesn’t start could be available for long relief until he is needed to start again, which might not be until early August when they play 19 games in 20 days.

 

In addition to getting the top starters in as often as possible against those contenders, I hope they avoid having Anderson and Lauer pitch on consecutive days.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I’m not talking about a total reconfiguration of the rotation, but rather a small tweaking (which could have been done a week or two ago) to avoid having Houser and Lauer, the 4th and 6th starters , start the first two games of an important four game series against the Reds. The tweaking could have been achieved by having a pitcher go on just 4 days rest while another gets an extra day, or using someone from the Nashville shuttle to start a game against a team that is not a division contender.

 

The All Star break, and the 3 off days in the 11 days after it, provide a perfect opportunity to reset the rotation while still giving everyone some additional rest. I’m not going to be pleased if Burnes and Woodruff don’t both get a start in the series in Cincinnati right after the break. After that series, there are 3 weeks before the next series against one of the other division contenders. It would seem to be a no brainer to use Woodruff, Burnes, and Peralta against the Reds in some order, and then throw Houser and either Anderson or Lauer in the two games against KC. Then the top 3 could come back the next weekend against the White Sox. Whichever of Anderson or Lauer doesn’t start could be available for long relief until he is needed to start again, which might not be until early August when they play 19 games in 20 days.

 

In addition to getting the top starters in as often as possible against those contenders, I hope they avoid having Anderson and Lauer pitch on consecutive days.

 

I understand the logic behind your thoughts here. I just doubt that the Brewers are going to do it, because it doesn't seem to be the way they operate. And the way they operate is working perfectly fine.