2021 NBA Finals: Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns BUCKS WIN THE TITLE!!!!

[CheezWizHed]

Lebron gets knocked because of going to Miami and making a big deal about playing with Wade and recruiting what's-his-name in Miami. Then going back to Cleveland when they had a ton of top draft picks. Trading for Love was a huge splash...he just didn't turn out well.

 

But for the Bucks.. This is most of the players' first finals. I think they are just getting what it takes to play under the big lights. Too bad DDV isn't getting the experience. Having Holiday and DDV to play on Chris and Booker would've really pressed their main playmakers.

 

For whatever was bothering Giannis last night, he played incredible team ball. Many nights he would charge into the wall, but he seemed to pick his spots much better last night. Much smarter offense.

 

And I'd agree that Bud certainly has made adjustments along the way that have made big differences. Even if they lost last night, they showed that they have figured out the formula for slowing the Suns down.

[homer]

I would agree but almost a blend of the two. He won't be as dominant as peak Shaq was, but will likely have better longevity and is a bit more versatile.

 

The game has changed a ton since Shaq's peak. I don't know how a guy like Shaq would fit into today's game. That's more of an aside than a comparison of Giannis to Shaq.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

CLE doesn't win the title without Love so I think it turned out fine. LeBron should get credit for going back to CLE, 99% would not. He deserves flack for the whole Decision thing, which I think he regrets, but I maintain going to Miami was the right move for him. Without Miami his star never rises to where it is, there is no Space Jam, he is not elevated the way he is. I could go on and on about this but IMO the reason he gets any hate at all is because he is the closest threat to MJ and people don't like that. The way MJ has just skirted any of this talk makes me laugh. I know it's not the Decision but he won every title with a HOFer and they piled on with Rodman in their 2nd run. And nobody cares.

 

Free agency is just not what it was 20 years ago. The players drive the boat now. His choices were to control his destiny or claw to lose to a super team in some other city. Jordan didn't have to contend with Barkley teaming up with Hakeem and Gary Payton. When it was just him the Bulls were an easy out for Detroit, Boston and other teams with multiple good players.

[CheezWizHed]

I actually think Shaq would be a "Moneyball" impact in today's NBA. Teams have gone so small, he would make a huge mismatch. Obviously, he would give up a lot if the other team has a big that can shoot 3s, but frankly, I'd bet on Shaq during his peak years.

[FVBrewerFan]

Raptors won without building a "super team" and the Heat made it to the finals without one. Sure, if you mix just the right cocktail, a super team will win it all.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

For whatever was bothering Giannis last night, he played incredible team ball.

 

Could just be that his brother is in protocol and couldn't be at the game.

 

Speculation on my part, obviously, but maybe that's what it is.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

So did Detroit, they were a massive underdog against LA and destroyed them. Spurs were dominant almost entirely on their own development, though the team was quite super. I mean, really, Golden State was home-grown prior to KD. And while I wouldn't call the Raptors a super team, it was Kawhi, an emerging Siakam who was really a star by the end of the year, and Lowry whose numbers were only down because of those two.

 

Problem for LeBron is that CLE did none of that. They were terrible at building the team.

[DuWayne Steurer]

If I sounded like it was knocking LeBron for his chasing rings comment, maybe I should have reworded it.

 

I'll be honest, I think LeBron is the best player of this generation, and I don't even think it's particularly close. I don't even think Durant is close to LeBron. Durant is a better pure scorer, but he doesn't have the all-around skill set that LeBron has. I don't think LeBron is a better player than Jordan, and I don't think that is particularly close.

 

I think the knock on LeBron is the stupid ass "decision" and the real negative publicity that surrounded him in his second stint at Cleveland when he was the general manager in all but name only, basically demanding an entire roster rebuild to get the players he wanted.

 

We all know that Giannis has made similar requests and maybe even demands here in Milwaukee to get a championship caliber team. He just hasn't acted like quite such a diva about it. There's a narratives around everything. Perception means a lot.

 

I think off the court, LeBron is probably a genuinely good dude. Didn't he build an elementary school for Intercity kids or something like that? A lot of athletes are buying cars and houses for their entire posse instead of building schools and giving money away to actual causes.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think LeBron is better than Jordan at everything but a mid-range jumper, but recognize it is a minority opinion. I don't even like getting into that conversation because I feel it is more cultural and nostalgic attachment to Jordan than anything to do with basketball. The parts of Jordan that aren't good were almost entirely hidden from public view while nobody that plays now gets that benefit. LeBron has been by most accounts a model citizen but then chimes in about China or something. Then we have a front-row seat via the media and social media about every little thing these guys do and it becomes easy to be annoyed by basically any player if you want to be.

 

I grew up in the 80s and 90s and had multiple MJ jerseys but today feel that he benefitted tremendously from playing at a time when the league was immensely popular and the overall culture was naive and sort of free-spirited. It was sort of a golden era of pop culture and the last era in which icons were deified without being under a microscope 24/7. Imagine the backlash of his romps in Vegas after a bad playoff loss.

 

Then and now, it is OK to have a great team built around you, but it is not OK if you leave because ownership sucks at doing that. Replace Middleton with Kyle Korver or something and is Giannis still in MKE? Maybe, maybe not. Would Jordan stay in Chicago for 15 years without Pippen? Maybe, probably more likely than Giannis staying in MKE. Those guys never had to make that decision, LeBron did.

[young guns]

Giannis was treated for cramps after the game. Hopefully they can get this figured put before game 6 and it doesn't become a thing.

[nodakfan17]

LeBron is probably a Top 5 player of all-time and certainly in the Top 10. He made 8 consecutive NBA Finals and went 27-5 in playoff series during that span. I don’t think that level of success will ever be replicated.

 

I’m willing to give him a mulligan on The Decision because he was a fairly young man at the time, but he’s since left his team an additional 2x after sapping up their resources in pursuit of a title. That’s his legacy outside of Cleveland, Miami, and LA. He’s a great player and a decent guy, but still a villain.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

At the end of the day the Cavaliers have a championship because of LeBron. His legacy to me is that getting CLE a title mattered to him and he anchored the best comeback in the league's history against a 73-win team to do it. He would have been within his rights to tell CLE to buzz off especially after that embarrassing purple letter from Dan Gilbert. One thing I'm sure of is that Michael "I took that personal" Jordan would have never even considered going back there.

 

He was wise to pad his legacy with other championships because that is what the media machine judges players for at the end. He has people that dislike him but I think claiming his legacy is as a villain is a major reach.

[nodakfan17]

According to Twitter data, LeBron is the most hated current player in 24 states and receives 4x more ‘hate tweets’ than his next closest peer (Irving). I think the villain label is appropriate.

 

Had he stayed in Cleveland after losing the 2018 Finals, my opinion of him may be different. You’re right, it was big of him to forgive Dan Gilbert and win one for his hometown team. He could have excused Miami as his ‘college experience’ and said he needed to leave and mature for 4 years to appreciate what he had back home. But then he bolted again!

 

And Snapper, this is nothing personal (just sports banter). I usually dig your takes.

[homer]

I think The Decision was a horrible decision and the main reason Lebron is disliked. Had he just signed a contract with Miami instead of drawing it out and stirring up some fake drama on TV it would have been a different story.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

According to Twitter data, LeBron is the most hated current player in 24 states and receives 4x more ‘hate tweets’ than his next closest peer (Irving). I think the villain label is appropriate.

 

Had he stayed in Cleveland after losing the 2018 Finals, my opinion of him may be different. You’re right, it was big of him to forgive Dan Gilbert and win one for his hometown team. He could have excused Miami as his ‘college experience’ and said he needed to leave and mature for 4 years to appreciate what he had back home. But then he bolted again!

 

And Snapper, this is nothing personal (just sports banter). I usually dig your takes.

 

The Packers are the most hated team in like 12 states in the middle of the country but they also have the most fans in all of those states. What other player would be the most hated? They have to pick somebody and really who else would it be? It's part of the territory. Kobe had a ton of haters as well, it's simply part of the deal of being a mega star in today's explosive media era. People despise Tom Brady.

 

I don't know of a single person, even the most die-hard Cavs fans, that thought he would stay there after the 2nd stint. It was a foregone conclusion that he was out. He achieved the goal of ending the CLE drought and for the most part got a heroic send-off. He is mostly revered there for doing it at all.

 

If he were truly that hated, he's not #1 at the box office this weekend.

[nodakfan17]

If he were truly that hated, he's not #1 at the box office this weekend.

[sarcasm]I’d go to see his movie, but I think I already know how it ends - he can’t beat the Monstars by himself, so Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh show up just in time to help save the Looney Toons.[/sarcasm]

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think the only guy in the NBA I "hate" (which is probably too strong a word) is Kyrie Irving. He thinks he's on this other, weird plane of enlightenment and talks down to people like they don't understand why he thinks the earth is flat and other such nonsense. Nah, you're just kind of a weird, spacey dude. I don't really hate the guy, I just think he's kinda full of his own intellectual self and needs to back it up a bit. Talking down to people doesn't make you smarter, it just makes you an arrogant jerk.

 

I don't hate Lebron (I have already said IMO he's the best player in this generation), I just think he's made some immature choices. As do we all, I suppose.

 

I think when it comes to "hate", we mostly just hate the guys that either win a lot at our favorite team's expense, or win a lot of titles, like Tom Brady or Derek Jeter, or Lebron.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Devin Booker is making a good argument for himself, being an incredible shooter while flexing down on Giannis and incessantly whining for calls.

[nodakfan17]

Devin Booker is making a good argument for himself, being an incredible shooter while flexing down on Giannis and incessantly whining for calls.

All while dating a Kardashian.

[PinaMadness]

Someone get Brandon Jennings to Game 6.

I was thinking the same thing before.

[nodakfan17]

I’m still in disbelief.

 

It’s crazy to think the Bucks are on the cusp of winning a championship with a bench that consists of Pat Connaughton, Bobby Portis, and a 33 year-old Jeff Teague (and not much else, with apologies to the rest).

 

Last year’s bench had more of a championship look (George Hill, Wes Matthews, Marvin Williams, Robin Lopez, Kyle Korver …)

[OldSchoolSnapper]

ConnAir is one of the unsung heroes of the series and when the role players for PHX and BKN vanished, ours have stepped up. Portis has had his moments in the playoffs too. Tucker, Holiday and Portis have given us more with less. Just a shorter, but better rotation that you need in the playoffs.

[jjfanec]

Devin Booker is making a good argument for himself, being an incredible shooter while flexing down on Giannis and incessantly whining for calls.

 

Booker's whining has been nauseating. Of our players Khris and Lopez complain a little too much for my liking but booker is easily the worst. I told my son last night if he acts like that during basketball I am taking him out of his league. Every time they replay something he coming about it was a clear foul by him or an obvious no call. I know Crowder is an MU guy but he has been awful with this too and with his flops

[nodakfan17]

It’s crazy to think the Bucks are one win away from having won the same number of championships in the last 50 years as the Packers.

[nate82]

For as much as Bud gets called out for not making adjustments and rightfully so. The Suns and Hawks didn't make any changes at all after the Bucks took over the series. The Hawks didn't adjust to Lopez or Middleton taking over and the Suns haven't adjusted on offense with Paul at all.

 

Defensively the Suns finally made an adjustment in game 5 on Middleton but beyond that I am not sure what the Suns have done differently since game 1.