2021-06-30: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Ashby) [Brewers win, 15-7 -- Cubs score 7 in 1st inning; Crew responds with 15 unanswered]

[KeithStone53151]

The Brewers position players should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves for their performance so far. Routine plays get us 5 outs at this point vs the 2 we have so far. Also I'm not super happy with the ump to this point, he's missed a few strikes on the outside corner for Ashby. He should have been out of this inning a long time ago with maybe 2 runs allowed.

[Jopal78]

I'm not saying Ashby won't go on to have a fine MLB career but the expectations for guys like him and Small and Kelly are wayyyyyy out of whack. Some see these guys as untouchable because of the success of guys like Woodruff and Hader and Burnes and Peralta. We've really been spoiled by these guys. The reality is that it's unlikely that any of the current crop of our pitching prospects ever reach the level of success of any of those 4.

 

But is it? They started him with no expectations he would work deep into the game, in a day game after a night game, when they already took two of three from the 2nd place team in their division. Be it nerves or not being quite ready for primetime against major league pitchers, he didn't pitch well.

[brewers888]

I sorta get the idea of keeping starters well rested and giving Ashby a shot at getting some innings for a bullpen game....but not against your main division rival and definitely not starting that game. Why can't they have started a different long reliever and then brought Ashby in midgame, instead of basically turning the game into a forfeit before the Brewers got up to bat?

 

Had they known that Ashby would be as inconsistent as he's looked, I imagine they wouldn't have made the decision they did. This is kind of the ultimate "benefit of hindsight" strawman argument.

 

Is it really surprising that Ashby would be nervous in his debut against a rival. I just hope they haven't damaged his confidence too much.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I sorta get the idea of keeping starters well rested and giving Ashby a shot at getting some innings for a bullpen game....but not against your main division rival and definitely not starting that game. Why can't they have started a different long reliever and then brought Ashby in midgame, instead of basically turning the game into a forfeit before the Brewers got up to bat?

 

Had they known that Ashby would be as inconsistent as he's looked, I imagine they wouldn't have made the decision they did. This is kind of the ultimate "benefit of hindsight" strawman argument.

 

If you look at Ashby's minor league numbers related to walk rate, inconsistency is kind of obvious with him at this point in his development

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Ehh, he'll be back.

[adambr2]

The Brewers position players should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves for their performance so far. Routine plays get us 5 outs at this point vs the 2 we have so far. Also I'm not super happy with the ump to this point, he's missed a few strikes on the outside corner for Ashby. He should have been out of this inning a long time ago with maybe 2 runs allowed.

 

He's missed maybe one borderline call. Ashby has mostly done this to himself with the "help" of his defense. What a disastrous debut.

[KeithStone53151]

For all the monday morning QB's saying we should have started Burnes, for all we know he's dealing with something minor and the extra day is necessary right now. Stuff like this we should all assume CC has a much better pulse on this thing than we do from our couches...

[Simba2020]

Starting Ashby was just plain stupid. An ERA of nearly 9 since being moved to the bullpen so he was pitching like garbage in the minors. A two game swing in the standings with a win versus a loss. Made absolutely no sense and cannot be justified whatsoever.

[brewers888]

He has a great arm but he definitely needs quite a bit more seasoning.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I sorta get the idea of keeping starters well rested and giving Ashby a shot at getting some innings for a bullpen game....but not against your main division rival and definitely not starting that game. Why can't they have started a different long reliever and then brought Ashby in midgame, instead of basically turning the game into a forfeit before the Brewers got up to bat?

 

Had they known that Ashby would be as inconsistent as he's looked, I imagine they wouldn't have made the decision they did. This is kind of the ultimate "benefit of hindsight" strawman argument.

 

Is it really surprising that Ashby would be nervous in his debut against a rival. I just hope they haven't damaged his confidence too much.

 

If his confidence is damaged by one rough outing, I'm not sure he's long for MLB. No MLB pitcher is immune to rough appearances. Certainly not ideal to do this in your first appearance, but nothing that can't be overcome either.

[roadcrew3]

Ashby gets no blame whatsoever for this debacle. You don't start a guy in his debut in a big game against a rival. Burnes should be starting and we should be sweeping this series.

 

It's the big leagues man. No need to coddle the guy, he had a bad debut and it is what it is. If he is good enough to get big league hitters out it doesn't matter who you are playing.

[Eye Black]

I don't know if Counsell overthought it or got too cute, but it's definitely one you look back on and ask why if you lose the division to the Cubs by a game.

This reminded me, I noticed the Brewers end the season in Los Angeles against the Dodgers. While the odds are relatively small of it happening, if they do need to play a game 163 those have historically been day games on the Monday (next day) following the season. What a nightmare scenario it would be to have to fly back to Midwest to play a quick turnaround winner-take-all game 163.

[jerichoholicninja]

At least all those Cubs fans get to witness a win today. Man the whole stadium is Cubbie blue.

[adambr2]

For all the monday morning QB's saying we should have started Burnes, for all we know he's dealing with something minor and the extra day is necessary right now. Stuff like this we should all assume CC has a much better pulse on this thing than we do from our couches...

 

This is really reaching. The decision to put off Burnes until the Pirate game on Thursday was made before this series even started. The idea that they knew last week that Burnes had something going on that would make him unavailable on Wednesday but good to go by Thursday is a pretty enormous stretch. Burnes could have started today.

[KeithStone53151]

Ashby gets no blame whatsoever for this debacle. You don't start a guy in his debut in a big game against a rival. Burnes should be starting and we should be sweeping this series.

 

It's the big leagues man. No need to coddle the guy, he had a bad debut and it is what it is. If he is good enough to get big league hitters out it doesn't matter who you are playing.

 

This is really out of touch with what happened. He earned 5 outs and trash defense couldn't convert 3 of them. Most single A teams convert all 5 of those outs routinely.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

For all the monday morning QB's saying we should have started Burnes, for all we know he's dealing with something minor and the extra day is necessary right now. Stuff like this we should all assume CC has a much better pulse on this thing than we do from our couches...

 

This is really reaching. The decision to put off Burnes until the Pirate game on Thursday was made before this series even started. The idea that they knew last week that Burnes had something going on that would make him unavailable on Wednesday but good to go by Thursday is a pretty enormous stretch. Burnes could have started today.

 

These are contradictory statements. Yeah, it would have been Burnes on 5 days rest. But if the decision was already made, it was already made. He was never gonna start today.

[KeithStone53151]

For all the monday morning QB's saying we should have started Burnes, for all we know he's dealing with something minor and the extra day is necessary right now. Stuff like this we should all assume CC has a much better pulse on this thing than we do from our couches...

 

This is really reaching. The decision to put off Burnes until the Pirate game on Thursday was made before this series even started. The idea that they knew last week that Burnes had something going on that would make him unavailable on Wednesday but good to go by Thursday is a pretty enormous stretch. Burnes could have started today.

 

Or maybe he felt fatigued and the extra day could help. We certainly can't know. To just assume he could start because it's an important opponent and you can count to 5 is really ignoring an unlimited number of variables that went into CC's decision.

 

Worth noting, Burnes hasn't even been that sharp his last handful of outings...possibly due to fatigue, or a lingering issue, or who knows what.

[wibadgers23]

Wisdom is quickly becoming my new favorite Cub to hate.

[adambr2]

Incredible to just basically give away a game against the team chasing you in the standings.

[owbc]

Coach Carter says that some guys just can’t handle the bright lights.

[NYChez]

What’s the earliest a team has ever used a position player as a pitcher? Who is that guy on the Brewers? Jackie Bradley?

[Jopal78]

The only real downside is they DFA'd Wahl to bring up Ashby, and now they'll need to shuffle the deck for some fresh arms, meaning they DFA'd Wahl for 2/3 of an inning from Ashby

[timpep]

I'm not sure I would have started the guy most likely to explode but a 6 man rotation with 5 starters is going to have a hiccup or two. Hopefully they stop the bleeding and have another 10 run inning in them.

[adambr2]

For all the monday morning QB's saying we should have started Burnes, for all we know he's dealing with something minor and the extra day is necessary right now. Stuff like this we should all assume CC has a much better pulse on this thing than we do from our couches...

 

This is really reaching. The decision to put off Burnes until the Pirate game on Thursday was made before this series even started. The idea that they knew last week that Burnes had something going on that would make him unavailable on Wednesday but good to go by Thursday is a pretty enormous stretch. Burnes could have started today.

 

These are contradictory statements. Yeah, it would have been Burnes on 5 days rest. But if the decision was already made, it was already made. He was never gonna start today.

 

They are not contradictory at all. Just because Burnes was never going to start today by Counsell's decision doesn't mean he couldn't have.

[brooks_quichenick]

Shocked that the same handful of posters that love to beat dead horses are doing that all throughout this thread.