Josh Hader appreciation thread

[pacopete4]

My only beef is they save him for the 9th, instead of in that "Fireman" role he had in 2017-2018. He gets anywhere from 3-8 outs, then hands it over to a closer for the 9th (say, Devin Williams or a re-signed Jeremy Jeffress).

 

He's said repeatedly that he prefers the role he has now compared to his previous role you described. He's also at the point in his career where you want to make him happy and comfortable.

 

I think Hader needs to take out a few billboards letting people know he’s the 9th inning man now or something. Just replace the one call that’s all ones with it.

[SeaBass]

I had the same thought. Do people think it is wiser to use Hader in the 9th inning of a tie game or the 10th? His strikeout prowless is extra valuable with a runner starting on second base, but if you don't use him in the 9th in a tie game, he might not get the chance. I can see both ways. What do others think?

The first and obvious answer is yes, Craig Counsell and the front office do. Of course it's something they've considered and clearly they've made their choice.

 

I think it simply comes down to making choices based on a known situation in real time versus trying to predict the future and gambling on the infinite unknowns that future entails. To me that's the infallible logic of the situation. So I pitch Hader in the 9th every time and deal with what happens from there when it actually happens.

[Pugger]

https://www.mlb.com/brewers/news/june-2021-mlb-relievers-of-the-month

[rickh150]

My only beef is they save him for the 9th, instead of in that "Fireman" role he had in 2017-2018. He gets anywhere from 3-8 outs, then hands it over to a closer for the 9th (say, Devin Williams or a re-signed Jeremy Jeffress).

 

He's said repeatedly that he prefers the role he has now compared to his previous role you described. He's also at the point in his career where you want to make him happy and comfortable.

 

I think Hader needs to take out a few billboards letting people know he’s the 9th inning man now or something. Just replace the one call that’s all ones with it.

 

Would he even go in the 8th to get the 3rd out? I surely hope that he isn’t being a primadonna in his role come later this year when the team might need him to get an out in the 8th.

[adambr2]

Good grief. He's not being "a primadonna". It's a long-term season long plan and it's been working. If they make an exception for 4 outs one day, they make an exception another day, and you can't stick with the long-term plan that way.

 

I've been skeptical as anyone of Hader being used strictly as a closer but it's hard to believe that anyone is going to be critical right now over how Hader's role has been executed.

[DoubleSwitch]

Hader is pitching twice as good as he was when he was a multi inning fireman and will probably end the season throwing 65 innings instead of 80. It's a good trade off. People just assume Hader would pitch as good if you pushed him harder. For every multi inning appearance Hader had like the one vs. the Reds when he struck out 8 guys, he would have multiple where he came out the second inning throwing 93 with his fastball and struggling with his command.

[rickh150]

Good grief. He's not being "a primadonna". It's a long-term season long plan and it's been working. If they make an exception for 4 outs one day, they make an exception another day, and you can't stick with the long-term plan that way.

 

I've been skeptical as anyone of Hader being used strictly as a closer but it's hard to believe that anyone is going to be critical right now over how Hader's role has been executed.

 

 

How would you know if he is being a primadonna or not? IF he is not willing to go an extra out in the 8th or pitch multiple innings in big, late season games on occasion, then yes, I would have issues with a player’s wants coming before a team’s needs.

 

I hear ya with the long season thing, and I agree with you mostly. Glad he is doing well, and yes he is doing even better in this role as strictly closer. I just hope CC has some flexibility in his usage come pennant drive or playoffs.

[SRB]

Can't see how anyone could complaint about not overtaxing Hader after watching our season-defining bullpen fall apart in the playoffs in recent years due to overuse

[adambr2]

Good grief. He's not being "a primadonna". It's a long-term season long plan and it's been working. If they make an exception for 4 outs one day, they make an exception another day, and you can't stick with the long-term plan that way.

 

I've been skeptical as anyone of Hader being used strictly as a closer but it's hard to believe that anyone is going to be critical right now over how Hader's role has been executed.

 

 

How would you know if he is being a primadonna or not? IF he is not willing to go an extra out in the 8th or pitch multiple innings in big, late season games on occasion, then yes, I would have issues with a player’s wants coming before a team’s needs.

 

What the team needs from Hader is really great innings like the ones he's giving them. As someone else pointed out, you don't know if he would be as effective overall if you're trying to squeeze 4-5 outs of him instead of 3, and you certainly wouldn't get as many outings out of him.

 

Odd to assume that the role is a result of Hader being a primadonna rather than just perhaps the team recognizing that the current role has been working perfectly for both the team and Hader.

[rickh150]

Can't see how anyone could complaint about not overtaxing Hader after watching our season-defining bullpen fall apart in the playoffs in recent years due to overuse

 

Wow….. just hoping CC has flexibility in using a major weapon.

[rickh150]

Good grief. He's not being "a primadonna". It's a long-term season long plan and it's been working. If they make an exception for 4 outs one day, they make an exception another day, and you can't stick with the long-term plan that way.

 

I've been skeptical as anyone of Hader being used strictly as a closer but it's hard to believe that anyone is going to be critical right now over how Hader's role has been executed.

 

 

How would you know if he is being a primadonna or not? IF he is not willing to go an extra out in the 8th or pitch multiple innings in big, late season games on occasion, then yes, I would have issues with a player’s wants coming before a team’s needs.

 

What the team needs from Hader is really great innings like the ones he's giving them. As someone else pointed out, you don't know if he would be as effective overall if you're trying to squeeze 4-5 outs of him instead of 3, and you certainly wouldn't get as many outings out of him.

 

Odd to assume that the role is a result of Hader being a primadonna rather than just perhaps the team recognizing that the current role has been working perfectly for both the team and Hader.

 

Just want to make use of a weapon to its max, especially if, or rather when, we need him late in the season in the 8th.

[adambr2]

The playoffs are always a different animal for everyone. I don't think we need to concern ourselves too deeply with whether or not Josh Hader is going to be available with 2 outs in the 8th inning and the bases loaded in a 1 run game in Game 7 of the NLCS. How he is used in July has nothing to do with that.

[pacopete4]

Can't see how anyone could complaint about not overtaxing Hader after watching our season-defining bullpen fall apart in the playoffs in recent years due to overuse

 

Wow….. just hoping CC has flexibility in using a major weapon.

 

But you do this often. You almost look for drama in places that there are none.

[rickh150]

Can't see how anyone could complaint about not overtaxing Hader after watching our season-defining bullpen fall apart in the playoffs in recent years due to overuse

 

Wow….. just hoping CC has flexibility in using a major weapon.

 

But you do this often. You almost look for drama in places that there are none.

 

Just making a baseball point about our closer.

[Fear The Chorizo]

People forget when Hader was a multi inning fireman, the Brewers had prime Knebel and other relievers with closer experience in the bullpen ( Soria, etc) that could take the 9th inning. Who in the current pen becomes the 9th inning guy if Hader is taken out of that role? Williams maybe, but I prefer him in his current role as a setup guy.

 

He's in the best role for this team as the closer, with the occasional option to get more than 3 outs and being able to pitch in more ballgames - especially with the extra inning rule changes that makes a hold through the 9th inning very impactful.

[markedman5]

Williams would give all of a heart attack if he was the closer.

[Dragonbait]

Williams would give all of a heart attack if he was the closer.

 

With our history of closers, he's s perfect then.

[rickh150]

2019- Had his contact automatically renewed instead of accepting the author- ticked off

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2019/03/07/brewers-reliever-josh-hader-made-business-decision-contract-renewal/3092858002/

 

2020- Lost his arby case and over two million dollars- ticked off, talking about how arbitration is outdated, not benefitting pitchers like him going multiple innings, and facing the heart of the order. I remember CC doing this often. Hader pitched to the heart or he was brought in to get multiple outs in 7th/8th/9th.

 

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/baseball/professional/brewers-manager-craig-counsell-says-josh-hader-should-have-won-arbitration-case/article_14acfff4-62c8-5e01-a3f8-c6344adbf799.html

 

2021- Avoided arbitration and agreed to a deal….. have to think it’s possible part of the terms was no multiple inning games. In the spin, CC says Hader’s role is largely the same (so still closing games, but no multiple innings…and I mean none?) Hader says “multiple innings is a grind” and “closer role is a good fit because of other guys on the roster” (or between the lines says I’m working more, against the other team’s best, on a really unknown schedule…. Am I going a third of an inning?? 2and a third?, and getting paid much less)

 

https://apnews.com/article/mlb-baseball-craig-counsell-josh-hader-871b393c94cff511b0e9d4ca6066ec5a

 

July 7, 2021…..Extra rest can’t be the major deal now if he is up to throw two games on the same day.

[adambr2]

Man, you are beating this horse to a pulp.

 

The rationale behind limiting Hader to 3 outs has been said to let him affect as many games as possible. Stretching him out for longer outings will obviously make him available in less games.

 

I wanted Burnes to work out of it in the 6th today, but it's not like Devin was a terrible option to get 1 out. They also couldn't have used Hader in the 8th of Game 1 today because they PH for him in the top of the 8th, and they needed to to grab the lead.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I admire how much passion certain people have about Josh hader getting more than 3 outs in a game.

[rickh150]

I admire how much passion certain people have about Josh hader getting more than 3 outs in a game.

 

More like not getting even one more KEY out than three in any one game (and he was extra good at it winning the NL Relief Pitcher of the Year in 2018 AND 2019)..…. a few extra pitches. Yet throwing six outs and two bullpens in one random day in July, along with throwing a few games worth of pitching in the pen over the last two weeks, is yawn fine.

 

I don’t get the logic. Scrap pitching him against the heart of the line up. Never an extra out in the 8th against a lefty. One more out. Even just pitching him an inning in the 8th against the heart of the order. Pitch him one inning in the 10th of one game with a guy at 2B as others have been crying for when the game is tied in the 9th. Just a very limited usage of him from a creative bullpen manager that calls pitchers out getters….,, CC’s hands appear to be tied.

 

Funny thing is… I would have been fine not getting him up to pitch the second game with the Reds coming to town tomorrow.

[adambr2]

Everyone seems to be very concerned with making sure other divisional opponents lose. In May it was the Cardinals. In June it was the Cubs. Now it's the Reds. Maybe we should just try to win as many games as we can and let the other 4 teams sort themselves out.

[rickh150]

Everyone seems to be very concerned with making sure other divisional opponents lose. In May it was the Cardinals. In June it was the Cubs. Now it's the Reds. Maybe we should just try to win as many games as we can and let the other 4 teams sort themselves out.

 

I think the MLB rules state that each division winner will be a part of the playoffs come October and thus games played against them carry more weight than non division foes.

Edited July 8, 2021 by rickh150

[Jopal78]

Everyone seems to be very concerned with making sure other divisional opponents lose. In May it was the Cardinals. In June it was the Cubs. Now it's the Reds. Maybe we should just try to win as many games as we can and let the other 4 teams sort themselves out.

 

The Cubs pitching staff is 10th in the NL in runs allowed, the Cardinals are 11th and the Reds are 13th. These things tend to even out over a 162 game season, and typically no matter how good an offense is a team with bottom of the league pitching won’t be much better than around .500

[adambr2]

Everyone seems to be very concerned with making sure other divisional opponents lose. In May it was the Cardinals. In June it was the Cubs. Now it's the Reds. Maybe we should just try to win as many games as we can and let the other 4 teams sort themselves out.

 

I think the MLB rules state that each division winner will be a part of the playoffs come October and thus games played against them carry more weight than non division foes.

 

What if I told you that if we win the most games of anyone in our division, regardless of who they are against, we will be said division winner?