JBJ Season Struggles

[pacopete4]

Jackie Bradley Jr. has the worst batting average, OBP, and OPS of any qualified player in all of baseball.

 

I didn’t want to lose this discussion with a game thread ending. Are we at a point in the season of no return? I mean, we at mid-June with no signs of life here. He has to be mentally fried with his season and lack of success. Can we cut bait? Is that even an option?

[adambr2]

Jackie Bradley Jr. has the worst batting average, OBP, and OPS of any qualified player in all of baseball.

 

I didn’t want to lose this discussion with a game thread ending. Are we at a point in the season of no return? I mean, we at mid-June with no signs of life here. He has to be mentally fried with his season and lack of success. Can we cut bait? Is that even an option?

 

Not really. He has a player option next year which is certain at this point to be exercised. There isn't much they can do other than hope he comes around. They can banish him to the bench when Cain and Taylor are healthy but one way or another they are going to be paying him next year too.

[wildcat2237]

He's been so bad that I actually do think an outright release is an option.

 

I think they give him at least another 6 weeks. But if he is terrible on August 1 you gotta think about cutting bait. He's been so bad that he is actually hurting the team more than helping. Horrible signing.

[rickh150]

He's been so bad that I actually do think an outright release is an option.

 

I think they give him at least another 6 weeks. But if he is terrible on August 1 you gotta think about cutting bait. He's been so bad that he is actually hurting the team more than helping. Horrible signing.

 

Oh, but his defense! That is why they signed him...

[owbc]

It’s not as bad as it looks. CF isn’t the worst spot to have a guy with a bad slash line. And JBJ has made up half of his negative offensive value with his glove. So he’s not even in the bottom-50 in bWAR. Shaw actually has been worse than JBJ and Hiura is three times worse.

 

I get the math that the front office did—run prevention in CF is worth more than whatever incremental gain you would get from replacing JBJ with a better bat. And with Cain injured I’m glad we have the guy. He’s never been any better than an average hitter but if he could just return to just being slightly below average that would suffice

[adambr2]

It’s not as bad as it looks. CF isn’t the worst spot to have a guy with a bad slash line. And JBJ has made up half of his negative offensive value with his glove. So he’s not even in the bottom-50 in bWAR. Shaw actually has been worse than JBJ and Hiura is three times worse.

 

JBJ is also more than 10 times as expensive as both Shaw and Hiura combined.

[pacopete4]

The expense part, I don’t really care about. It takes money to sign people and it’s already spent. I do care that he’s basically pitcher bad in our lineup. If we cut him, someone would pick him up I’m sure. And maybe he’d hit well enough to then decline the option next season. Or maybe he will still turn it around and actually still help this team because Cain sure isn’t going to much.

[TigerUppercut]

It’s not as bad as it looks. CF isn’t the worst spot to have a guy with a bad slash line. And JBJ has made up half of his negative offensive value with his glove. So he’s not even in the bottom-50 in bWAR. Shaw actually has been worse than JBJ and Hiura is three times worse.

 

JBJ is also more than 10 times as expensive as both Shaw and Hiura combined.

 

Once the contract is executed and the money is spent, why does this position matter outside of evaluating Stearns? They're all really, really bad. You can't go backward and reappropriate the money.

[brewcrewdue80]

Said this somewhere else. Via statcast he had a career high on chase contact in 2020 of over 62pct. At the time he was at a little more than 42pct this year. Hes dropped it below 42pct now. By far a career record low. Everything else when put in play is around what he's done for his career. Either he needs to improve on his pitch taking so whiffs become balls or he's gotta find whatever adjustment he made in swing and revert it back.

There's that or Pitching is just that far better in NL Central and NL compared to AL in terms of late break. Maybe the sticky substance reduces spin and late break and he starts contacting the ball more. But really just a terrible hacker.

[Jopal78]

It’s not as bad as it looks. CF isn’t the worst spot to have a guy with a bad slash line. And JBJ has made up half of his negative offensive value with his glove. So he’s not even in the bottom-50 in bWAR. Shaw actually has been worse than JBJ and Hiura is three times worse.

 

JBJ is also more than 10 times as expensive as both Shaw and Hiura combined.

 

Can we really move into 2021 and get past calling players with 10-12 million dollar AAVs expensive? In 2021, a team looking to fill starting roles on their roster by signing free agents for less than 10 million dollars a year is really going to be sifting through the bargain bin. No doubt, Bradley has sucked at the plate this year, but the potential for him to struggle with the bat must've been known because it is likely why he's on a short term contract with Milwaukee to begin with.

 

That being said, almost all of his contract is deferred, with 13 million deferred until after January 1, 2024. Therefore, if the Brewers did have 5 outfielders they believed superior to Bradley they certainly could dump him because they have already agreed to pay over half the total money on his contract after said contract has already ended.

[xisxisxis]

Get used to it. It's the Brewers WAY... We collect the worst batters in baseball and play them full-time, all-the-time. From Casey McGehee, Yuni Betancourt to Orlando Arcia and now Jackie Bradley. And the partial year wonders including Sogard can't be forgotten... Are we at 7-8 years of having the worst hitter in baseball on our team over the last 15-16 years? Maybe it's time to share the wealth with the other teams in baseball and maybe stop giving so many AB to players who shouldn't even be in baseball. Not holding my breath as I'm sure we'll find the next absolute crap hitter for 2022 (we probably already have him on our roster)...

[adambr2]

It’s not as bad as it looks. CF isn’t the worst spot to have a guy with a bad slash line. And JBJ has made up half of his negative offensive value with his glove. So he’s not even in the bottom-50 in bWAR. Shaw actually has been worse than JBJ and Hiura is three times worse.

 

JBJ is also more than 10 times as expensive as both Shaw and Hiura combined.

 

Can we really move into 2021 and get past calling players with 10-12 million dollar AAVs expensive? In 2021, a team looking to fill starting roles on their roster by signing free agents for less than 10 million dollars a year is really going to be sifting through the bargain bin. No doubt, Bradley has sucked at the plate this year, but the potential for him to struggle with the bat must've been known because it is likely why he's on a short term contract with Milwaukee to begin with.

 

That being said, almost all of his contract is deferred, with 13 million deferred until after January 1, 2024. Therefore, if the Brewers did have 5 outfielders they believed superior to Bradley they certainly could dump him because they have already agreed to pay over half the total money on his contract after said contract has already ended.

 

Their total commitment to JBJ with the option is 22M, that is not a small sum for a team with payroll limitations.

 

Also wasn't really my point, the comparison was to point out that struggling players aren't created equal, salary matters, and struggling players with miniscule salaries like Hiura and Shaw are much easier to trade or walk away from than a guy like JBJ is.

[Jopal78]

Maybe it's time to share the wealth with the other teams in baseball and maybe stop giving so many AB to players who shouldn't even be in baseball. Not holding my breath as I'm sure we'll find the next absolute crap hitter for 2022 (we probably already have him on our roster)...

 

 

I never really thought about it too much, but boy there have been a number of batters over the last fiver years or so who came to the Brewers got semi-regular playing time in Milwaukee with then never played extensively, if at all in the major leagues afterward:

 

Justin Smoak

Jedd Gyroko

Corey Spangenberg

Tyler Saladino

Hernan Perez

Nick Franklin

Keon Broxton

Kirk Nieuwenhuis

Ramon Flores

Alex Presley

[pacopete4]

I’d be willing to go out on a limb and say that is pretty common for a lot of franchises like the Brewers. The economics almost force situations like that list above.

[Roderick]

The expense part, I don’t really care about. It takes money to sign people and it’s already spent. I do care that he’s basically pitcher bad in our lineup. If we cut him, someone would pick him up I’m sure. And maybe he’d hit well enough to then decline the option next season. Or maybe he will still turn it around and actually still help this team because Cain sure isn’t going to much.

 

There is no way a team picks up his contract (if that is what you meant). They would wait until he clears and then someone would pick him up to pay the prorated minimum wage on the season. There is no way that JBJ is declining his option, even if he has a great second half. At this point we keep him. I would think the trading deadline would be the point where he is released if he is still not producing, but even then with the extra bench he is probably kept.

[sveumrules]

Get used to it. It's the Brewers WAY... We collect the worst batters in baseball and play them full-time, all-the-time. From Casey McGehee, Yuni Betancourt to Orlando Arcia and now Jackie Bradley. And the partial year wonders including Sogard can't be forgotten... Are we at 7-8 years of having the worst hitter in baseball on our team over the last 15-16 years? Maybe it's time to share the wealth with the other teams in baseball and maybe stop giving so many AB to players who shouldn't even be in baseball. Not holding my breath as I'm sure we'll find the next absolute crap hitter for 2022 (we probably already have him on our roster)...

 

Casey McGehee, Yuni B & Orlando all started on 96 win teams that went to the NLCS. Not every lineup can be stacked one through eight.

 

For all the ineptitude over the last 15 seasons, the Brewers have somehow stumbled into the 10th most wins in baseball since Braun's rookie season in 2007. Pretty impressive on its own merits, even moreso when payroll is taken into consideration.

 

The fifteen years before that, from their last winning season in 1992 through 2006, the Brewers won the 23rd most games in baseball & four of the teams below themwere expansion franchises.

 

I'd say that is far more representative of the Brewers WAY under Attanassio/Melvin/Stearns than JBJ's wRC+ is.

[sveumrules]

Maybe it's time to share the wealth with the other teams in baseball and maybe stop giving so many AB to players who shouldn't even be in baseball. Not holding my breath as I'm sure we'll find the next absolute crap hitter for 2022 (we probably already have him on our roster)...

 

 

I never really thought about it too much, but boy there have been a number of batters over the last fiver years or so who came to the Brewers got semi-regular playing time in Milwaukee with then never played extensively, if at all in the major leagues afterward:

 

Justin Smoak

Jedd Gyroko

Corey Spangenberg

Tyler Saladino

Hernan Perez

Nick Franklin

Keon Broxton

Kirk Nieuwenhuis

Ramon Flores

Alex Presley

 

Check the rosters of WAS, MIN, STL, ATL, ARI, COL, SEA, NYM, LAA, PHI, SFG, SDP, TOR, CHW, CIN, TEX, PIT, MIA, KCR, DET & BAL (the 21 teams who have won fewer games than us over the last five years) & I'd imagine it's not really all that remarkable.

[Jopal78]

 

Their total commitment to JBJ with the option is 22M, that is not a small sum for a team with payroll limitations.

 

Also wasn't really my point, the comparison was to point out that struggling players aren't created equal, salary matters, and struggling players with miniscule salaries like Hiura and Shaw are much easier to trade or walk away from than a guy like JBJ is.

 

But you're wrong, on both counts. If this was 2005 I'd agree with you. But with the constants escalation of player salaries, if a team is going to view a 11 million dollar AAV as limiting to their payroll in 2021, they probably have no intention of competing in the first place.

 

Secondly, even if all the options in Bradley's contract it would run through 2023. Bradley and the Brewers have already agreed that 6.5 of his 9.5 player option for 2022 will be deferred until January of 2024, and the 8.5 million dollar buy out of the mutual option for 2023 is deferred until January of 2024 and beyond.

 

In reality the Brewers set themselves up to be able to walk away from JBJ without it being a crippling blow as they spread out the payments of his 3 year contract in small chunks over 5 years time even after his contract ends. Assuming arguendo, they dropped him today, they'd be out whatever is left on his 6.5 million guarantee this year, and the 3 million they didn't already defer on his 2022 player option.

 

They cut bait on Neftali Feliz, Lindblom so there is some history there of eating a bad contract. However, with JBJ I don't think they're going to believe they have 5 healthy outfielders who are better players.

[brewers888]

A small market franchise can't really afford to be spending 30 million or so on two center fielders that can't hit. I totally understand wanting an insurance policy with Cain who seems to have just sat around doing nothing during his vacation but we didn't have to spend what we did on Bradley when the guy just can't hit. Kevin Pillar and Jake Marisnick were two similar players to Bradley who were available at much cheaper values on one year deals.

 

Stearns continues to fail again and again when it comes to putting an adequate offense together. Whether its through the draft where we focus on athletes over hitters or the free agent market where we consistently overpay for bad hitters with Bradley being the latest example. We are going to waste what is the best top of the rotation in the history of the franchise unless we improve what is an embarrassing offense.

 

Even if we make the playoffs what is this lineup capable of doing against the pitching staffs of the Mets and Dodgers. Stearns has a lot of work ahead of him at this deadline because we need at least two viable hitters if we are to stand any chance against good pitching which is what we would be facing in the playoffs.

[brewers888]

Picking up the one year and 10 million left on Brad Hand's contract when he was dumped by Cleveland would have been a much better use of our resources than wasting it on a defensive center fielder that hits worse than some of our pitchers.

[adambr2]

 

Their total commitment to JBJ with the option is 22M, that is not a small sum for a team with payroll limitations.

 

Also wasn't really my point, the comparison was to point out that struggling players aren't created equal, salary matters, and struggling players with miniscule salaries like Hiura and Shaw are much easier to trade or walk away from than a guy like JBJ is.

 

But you're wrong, on both counts. If this was 2005 I'd agree with you. But with the constants escalation of player salaries, if a team is going to view a 11 million dollar AAV as limiting to their payroll in 2021, they probably have no intention of competing in the first place.

 

Secondly, even if all the options in Bradley's contract it would run through 2023. Bradley and the Brewers have already agreed that 6.5 of his 9.5 player option for 2022 will be deferred until January of 2024, and the 8.5 million dollar buy out of the mutual option for 2023 is deferred until January of 2024 and beyond.

 

In reality the Brewers set themselves up to be able to walk away from JBJ without it being a crippling blow as they spread out the payments of his 3 year contract in small chunks over 5 years time even after his contract ends. Assuming arguendo, they dropped him today, they'd be out whatever is left on his 6.5 million guarantee this year, and the 3 million they didn't already defer on his 2022 player option.

 

They cut bait on Neftali Feliz, Lindblom so there is some history there of eating a bad contract. However, with JBJ I don't think they're going to believe they have 5 healthy outfielders who are better players.

 

I never said it would be a crippling blow. You're making strawman arguments. I just said the struggles of players on meager salaries like Shaw and Hiura have to be viewed from a different perspective than struggling players from more expensive players like JBJ.

 

Just because some of the money spent on JBJ is deferred and the rest of money spent on JBJ isn't going to be franchise altering doesn't mean it doesn't matter at all. 3M here, 6.5M here, 3M here, it all matters. If sums like that didn't matter, Corey Knebel would still be here.

[pacopete4]

A small market franchise can't really afford to be spending 30 million or so on two center fielders that can't hit. I totally understand wanting an insurance policy with Cain who seems to have just sat around doing nothing during his vacation but we didn't have to spend what we did on Bradley when the guy just can't hit. Kevin Pillar and Jake Marisnick were two similar players to Bradley who were available at much cheaper values on one year deals.

 

Stearns continues to fail again and again when it comes to putting an adequate offense together. Whether its through the draft where we focus on athletes over hitters or the free agent market where we consistently overpay for bad hitters with Bradley being the latest example. We are going to waste what is the best top of the rotation in the history of the franchise unless we improve what is an embarrassing offense.

 

Even if we make the playoffs what is this lineup capable of doing against the pitching staffs of the Mets and Dodgers. Stearns has a lot of work ahead of him at this deadline because we need at least two viable hitters if we are to stand any chance against good pitching which is what we would be facing in the playoffs.

 

This is just so damn dramatic. The Brewers are in a tie for first place and probably have had one of the most injured teams in the league. Has there been some struggles offensively? Sure. But there a lot of teams that can say that. Are there some areas we can target to improve? Also true. But my god man, step off the ledge a bit.

[brewers888]

A small market franchise can't really afford to be spending 30 million or so on two center fielders that can't hit. I totally understand wanting an insurance policy with Cain who seems to have just sat around doing nothing during his vacation but we didn't have to spend what we did on Bradley when the guy just can't hit. Kevin Pillar and Jake Marisnick were two similar players to Bradley who were available at much cheaper values on one year deals.

 

Stearns continues to fail again and again when it comes to putting an adequate offense together. Whether its through the draft where we focus on athletes over hitters or the free agent market where we consistently overpay for bad hitters with Bradley being the latest example. We are going to waste what is the best top of the rotation in the history of the franchise unless we improve what is an embarrassing offense.

 

Even if we make the playoffs what is this lineup capable of doing against the pitching staffs of the Mets and Dodgers. Stearns has a lot of work ahead of him at this deadline because we need at least two viable hitters if we are to stand any chance against good pitching which is what we would be facing in the playoffs.

 

This is just so damn dramatic. The Brewers are in a tie for first place and probably have had one of the most injured teams in the league. Has there been some struggles offensively? Sure. But there a lot of teams that can say that. Are there some areas we can target to improve? Also true. But my god man, step off the ledge a bit.

 

Who is this team missing that moves the needle offensively. They miss Wong for sure but more for his defense than his bat. This team is being carried by the starting pitching and the best reliever in baseball but they are woefully short on offense.

[sveumrules]

Wong (115 wRC+)

Urias (100 wRC+)

Yelich (126 wRC+)

Avisail (106 wRC+)

Omar (147 wRC+)

Adames (110 wRC+)

Vogelbach (106 wRC+)

Taylor (111 wRC+)

 

When everyone is healthy the lineup is fine.

[pacopete4]

Wong (115 wRC+)

Urias (100 wRC+)

Yelich (126 wRC+)

Avisail (106 wRC+)

Omar (147 wRC+)

Adames (110 wRC+)

Vogelbach (106 wRC+)

Taylor (111 wRC+)

 

When everyone is healthy the lineup is fine.

 

Doesn’t look woefully short or embarrassing to me.