Pitchers using foreign substances

[stoutdude04]

I'm bad at links here, but if I read the graphs correctly, Woodruff and Burnes both had a noticable drop in rpm their last start or 2. Hopefully nothing more than a blip.

[DuWayne Steurer]

If Burnes had a drop in spin rate, it didn't affect his performance. 7 IP, 4 H, 0 ER and 13 K's with no walks last time out.

[stoutdude04]

If Burnes had a drop in spin rate, it didn't affect his performance. 7 IP, 4 H, 0 ER and 13 K's with no walks last time out.

 

His was the previous 2 with the last one ticking upward. I should note, it was still high. I'll see if I can find the link again.

 

Here is one from twitter showing the slider for woody and the cutter for Burnes.

 

[MrTPlush]

It’s not a blip, our pitchers have been using stuff just like others in baseball. I’m guessing many other pitchers on our team will see drops along with dozens across baseball.

[SeaBass]

Hader is used in this article as an example of difference in recent spin rate. Before anyone gets stressed about it, the article only talks briefly about him and isn't singling him out for incrimination, rather just talking about what spin rate differences look like and how it could be explained.

 

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2181864/is-mlbs-threat-to-police-sticky-stuff-an-effective-deterrent-for-pitchers

[RightFieldCoder]

How much stuff are guys using? I can't imagine that they are using enough of it on their fingers than any noticeable trace is left on the ball.

I can't imagine a guy would pay for a gummy with just enough steroids to not be detected and then take 5 of them in a playoff game.

[Simba2020]

Burnes's spin rates on his cutters were at a season low yesterday. They have been trending down over his last four starts, particularly the last three. Now he hasn't exactly been a bum lately, but over those four starts, his opponent batting average has been .233 versus .159 in his first 7 starts. His ERA is up from 1.79 to 2.74 as well.

[82brewcrew82]

Burnes's spin rates on his cutters were at a season low yesterday. They have been trending down over his last four starts, particularly the last three. Now he hasn't exactly been a bum lately, but over those four starts, his opponent batting average has been .233 versus .159 in his first 7 starts. His ERA is up from 1.79 to 2.74 as well.

Just that one pitch? That seems weird. What would be the other explanations for a drop in spin rate on one pitch? Mechanics?

[Simba2020]

Burnes's spin rates on his cutters were at a season low yesterday. They have been trending down over his last four starts, particularly the last three. Now he hasn't exactly been a bum lately, but over those four starts, his opponent batting average has been .233 versus .159 in his first 7 starts. His ERA is up from 1.79 to 2.74 as well.

Just that one pitch? That seems weird. What would be the other explanations for a drop in spin rate on one pitch? Mechanics?

It's not just the cutter but I focused on that since he throws that pitch more than all his other pitches combined.

 

He's recorded the three lowest spin rates this season on his changeup, curveball, cutter, and sinker in his last three starts. The same would be true for his slider if not for his start on 5/19. However, his slider spin rate in that start is well below any of his other starts that it would almost seem to be an error.

[82brewcrew82]

Burnes's spin rates on his cutters were at a season low yesterday. They have been trending down over his last four starts, particularly the last three. Now he hasn't exactly been a bum lately, but over those four starts, his opponent batting average has been .233 versus .159 in his first 7 starts. His ERA is up from 1.79 to 2.74 as well.

Just that one pitch? That seems weird. What would be the other explanations for a drop in spin rate on one pitch? Mechanics?

It's not just the cutter but I focused on that since he throws that pitch more than all his other pitches combined.

 

He's recorded the three lowest spin rates this season on his changeup, curveball, cutter, and sinker in his last three starts. The same would be true for his slider if not for his start on 5/19. However, his slider spin rate in that start is well below any of his other starts that it would almost seem to be an error.

Where are you pulling spin rate data from?

[JohnBriggs12]

I think it's possible we are already seeing more contact and more runs. If you throw out the seven inning games, there was an average of 10.8 runs scored per game Saturday.

[umphrey]

My big concern about the sticky baseball thing was that they would start enforcing it and our pitchers would stink and also our bottom 3 offense would also still stink. Hopefully the offense improves enough to make up for the pitching.

[jjfanec]

My big concern about the sticky baseball thing was that they would start enforcing it and our pitchers would stink and also our bottom 3 offense would also still stink. Hopefully the offense improves enough to make up for the pitching.

 

In the 3 games of lower spin rates burnes has pitched 17 innings and given up 18 hits with 5 walks. He has given up 3 runs and struck out 28. Those are still incredibly good numbers. Yesterday's problem was missing the zone too. I guess that could be because guys didn't chance pitches due to spin stuff.

 

All that to say I doubt it cause our pitchers to stink. Maybe just not be otherworldly.

[Simba2020]

Bauer has easily had his lowest spin rates on his 4 seamer in his last two starts (9 runs 15 hits in 12.1 IP). I do think these pitchers are being scared straight, at least a little bit. Question is whether they are still cheating or doing so with a bit less goop.

 

Per baseballsavant, the spin rate for Burnes on his cutter in each of his starts:

 

Date Spin

6/12 2659

6/6 2729

5/31 2680

5/25 2803

5/19 2948

5/13 2926

4/26 2902

4/20 2854

4/14 2876

4/8 2858

4/3 2896

[wallus]

Definitely think teams have been told there will be lengthy suspensions and fines if players are caught now.

[JCREW]

Where are you pulling spin rate data from?

 

Navigate to baseballsavant.com

Load a player page.

Scroll down to the graph with pitch usage percentages.

Change “pitch %” to “average spin rate”

Change “season” to “game”

Change “All Seasons” to “2021”

 

You may also want to filter for one type of pitch so it’s easier to track.

[Eye Black]

Sounds like a significant number of pitchers spin rates are down across baseball (as expected), although maybe not as steep of drop-offs as were anticipated.

 

Came across this summary article of some decreases from over the weekend: A Look At Recent MLB Spin Numbers

[djoctagone]

new mlb policy goes into effect monday.

[MrTPlush]

Some MLB teams have had their pitchers take bullpen sessions without foreign substance to help prepare for this change.

[markedman5]

From Robert Murray

 

Just texted with a position player about pitchers no longer being able to use rosin and sunscreen on the mound.

 

“Hate it. The combo of rosin, sunscreen and pine tar never got any complaints from us since it improves command and relieves fear we wouldn’t catch 95 in the head.”

[BruisedCrew]

My big concern about the sticky baseball thing was that they would start enforcing it and our pitchers would stink and also our bottom 3 offense would also still stink. Hopefully the offense improves enough to make up for the pitching.

 

In the 3 games of lower spin rates burnes has pitched 17 innings and given up 18 hits with 5 walks. He has given up 3 runs and struck out 28. Those are still incredibly good numbers. Yesterday's problem was missing the zone too. I guess that could be because guys didn't chance pitches due to spin stuff.

 

All that to say I doubt it cause our pitchers to stink. Maybe just not be otherworldly.

 

Burnes bigger problem early in the game on Saturday was softly hit balls falling in for hits or being misplayed. That forced him to throw a lot of high stress pitches early in the game and led eventually to his early departure. Maybe lower spin will peoduce fewer swings and misses and more soft contact but not necessarily dramatic changes in runs.

 

Maybe the result of this will be fewer strikeouts but n

[Fear The Chorizo]

From Robert Murray

 

Just texted with a position player about pitchers no longer being able to use rosin and sunscreen on the mound.

 

“Hate it. The combo of rosin, sunscreen and pine tar never got any complaints from us since it improves command and relieves fear we wouldn’t catch 95 in the head.”

 

Does that position player ever stop to think that 95 would probably be 90-92 without pitchers having the benefit of being able to unnaturally grip the baseball if they wanted to be able to consistently throw strikes?

 

That combo allows for pitchers to throw with max effort because their command is dramatically more consistent with the added substances - but now to control those type of breaking pitches and even fastballs overall pitch velo will decrease, giving hitters a better chance to hit the baseball. I think the safety concern with not having spidertac or pine tar available for pitchers to glob on their gloves is overblown, particularly now that we currently don't have games being played outdoors where it's 35 degrees. I do think an exception could be made to add a pine tar rag for pitcher use on the mound if game conditions (cold temps or rainy conditions) warrant.

 

Guessing the initial result will be an uptick in walks until pitchers fully make the adjustment of using the rosin bag only to grip a baseball and sacrifice velocity to get back to locating their pitches instead of being able to just throw everything through a wall with no sacrifice on control.

[rickh150]

Baseball is almost unwatchable if it means 25 Ks, 10 BBs, about no SBs, and a few hits per game. That is what April and May were like in 2021, and it would keep more people away from the stadiums and TVs.

 

Getting these foreign substances under control looks to be important.

[markedman5]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/06/tyler-glasnow-sticky-stuff.html

[homer]

Glasnow claims he got hurt because he stopped using sunscreen.

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31639015/tampa-bay-rays-say-ace-right-hander-tyler-glasnow-partially-torn-ucl-flexor-tendon-strain

 

I guess he hasn't looked at his injury history prior to this year.

 

I think he does have a point about how ridiculous it is to crackdown midseason.