Pitchers using foreign substances

[jonescm128]

Over the last couple weeks it seems there has been increased scrutiny over pitches using foreign substances. MLB is apparently going to start cracking down on it but I saw this article from Sports Illustrated today that was pretty interesting.

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/06/04/sticky-stuff-is-the-new-steroids-daily-cover

[Sixtofan]

Good article. Who are the Brewers pitchers that would be most impacted by a crackdown? Burnes?

[KurtRussell]

I saw a post on Reddit this week that listed the top-10 highest spin rate jumps. Woodruff appeared for a few different types of pitches. Boxberger showed up, too.

 

I think Burnes has always had a high spin rate.

[jerichoholicninja]

Whatever. The league needs to actually do something about it or shut up about it.

[monty57]

Whatever. The league needs to actually do something about it or shut up about it.

 

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/06/major-league-baseball-to-crack-down-on-pitchers-use-of-foreign-substances.html

 

Looks like they're going to try to do something. We'll see how effective it is.

[jerichoholicninja]

Whatever. The league needs to actually do something about it or shut up about it.

 

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/06/major-league-baseball-to-crack-down-on-pitchers-use-of-foreign-substances.html

 

Looks like they're going to try to do something. We'll see how effective it is.

 

I'll believe it when I see it. They said basically the same thing before the season started and all that's happened is a guy had his hat taken away.

[timpep]

I think before the season started MLB made it pretty clear they weren't doing anything at the moment but we're going to gather info to see if they should. Sounds like they decided they should I guess.

[owbc]

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. Pitchers often argue that it's a safety issue related to grip. While that is true to an extent, it can obviously be mitigated by not trying to throw the ball at 100% effort every single pitch. In other words, being a more effective pitcher instead of just a thrower.

 

I found myself agreeing with almost everything in this article, which addresses the use of pitchers in general (and also helped me understand why Counsell has started treating Hader differently): https://defector.com/we-need-a-restrictor-plate-for-pitchers/

 

Baseball is in desperate need of its own restrictor plate. Players are bigger, faster, and especially stronger in an age of specialization and weightlifting. Much as contact sports like the NFL and NHL have learned with their clumsy attack on concussions, athletes have outgrown what the rules and bounds of the sport can incorporate. But we can’t simply ask pitchers to throw at 85 percent and abide by the honor system. It has to be incentivized, by carrot and stick—make avoiding maximum effort on every pitch the only way to stay on the roster on the player level and stay in every game on the manager and front office level. This is why the dip in back-to-back reliever usage is so disheartening. We know relief pitchers are eating more and more innings, but they’re also being babied because persistent usage at 100% effort will (and does) result in injury. Additional days off allows relievers to return at full health, increasing the sharpness of their stuff and further disadvantaging hitters, who can’t glean the benefits of a tired arm like they used to.

 

Mix in an actual enforcement of pitch clocks, which reduce recovery time between individual pitches for max-effort throwers, a stop to the practice of adding Elmer’s glue to the baseballs, and a ban on position players pitching, except in the case of double-digit score differences, and we will see the value in absorbing innings—whether from a starter or reliever—return. Inevitably, injuries will happen and they will be blamed on adjusted workloads and roster caps. This of course ignores that injuries are occurring at a record pace right now, with no caps, large staffs, and consistent off days for relievers. This is not an indifference to those who are injured, but an acceptance of the risks of pitching, seemingly regardless of the frequency, and the hope that with pitchers throwing at less than 100% effort on each offering, more good health is in store. It is, again, a difficult balance. But a worthwhile one.

[MrTPlush]

Video has caught Freddy Peralta this year.

 

The whole safety/control thing is a stupid excuse. Pitchers are using it to increase spin rate and that does the Alex act opposite of help control.

[Eye Black]

Video has caught Freddy Peralta this year.

Do you have a link or can you provide more context?

 

I would never be surprised by any pitcher using a substance (I think many of them certainly are), but Freddy Peralta has had very consistent spin rates throughout his 4 year MLB career. Same story for Burnes, he has reportedly had remarkable spin rates since his amateur days. That’s not to say they couldn’t still be using something, but at least the track record indicates some consistency.

 

Other pitchers, such as Jimmy Nelson, have gone from having slightly below average spin rates in the past to now having among the highest spin in baseball this season. Seems like those outlier jumps in spin rate are more likely to appear as a red flag.

[brooks_quichenick]

Yea I haven't seen anything from Peralta, but seem to remember a poster claiming that in another thread earlier this season (maybe it was MrTPlush also?).

 

Saw this video of Yu Darvish rubbing the inside of his glove yesterday:

 

[MrTPlush]

Alright, I had to ask my friend where he got the video and it was from a user on TikTok (hey_commy). Like 99% of this forum I don’t have the app, so I had to go download it to find find the video. He has videos of Peralta and Burnes both using a substance in their glove. He referred to a Woodruff video in one of his other videos, but I couldn’t find that one. The Peralta video is blatant and the Burnes one is fairly obvious...though he hides it better.

 

He has a Youtube account, but none of the Brewers clips are on it. His YouTube handle is ‘commy john’. Maybe someone can get him to post the Brewers ones there...or else you will need TikTok to see them.

[JosephC]

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. Pitchers often argue that it's a safety issue related to grip. While that is true to an extent, it can obviously be mitigated by not trying to throw the ball at 100% effort every single pitch. In other words, being a more effective pitcher instead of just a thrower.

 

 

The "safety" issue is a complete pile of crap when looking at the numbers.

 

2016 league average hit batters by team = 55

2017 = 59

2018 = 64

2019 = 66

2020 = 73 (27 pro-rated to a full 162 game season)

2021 = 69 (24 average HBP per team...average 56 games per team....pro-rates to 69 over a 162 game season)

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2016.shtml

There's the link for anyone that wants to double-check the numbers, very easy to use "previous season" and "next season" towards the top of the page to quickly scroll through seasons.

 

So the number has been on a consistent climb until this year where so far there has been a slight dip. If more and more pitchers are using this stuff and it's improving control...leading to greater safety...then the HBP numbers should be on a steady decline down the last few years and they clearly are not.

 

Another decent read on the hit by pitch trend.

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/05/17/corey-seager-injury-hbp-epidemic-the-opener

[Sixtofan]

Boxberger was blatantly doing it tonight. Some substance on the heel of his glove.

[CheezWizHed]

2016 league average hit batters by team = 55

2017 = 59

2018 = 64

2019 = 66

2020 = 73 (27 pro-rated to a full 162 game season)

2021 = 69 (24 average HBP per team...average 56 games per team....pro-rates to 69 over a 162 game season)

 

[sarcasm]Of course, LaRussa came back into the league in 2021...[/sarcasm]

[ClosetBrewerFan]

This stinks of the steroids era all of again. MLB looked the other way for years on that. I know MLB wants to avoid another scandal but ignoring/covering it up is always worse than just coming forward. The longer it goes on, the worse it will be.

 

They have a good excuse to come forward now. The lack of hitting is justification enough.

[DuWayne Steurer]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31572769/mlb-plans-enforcement-foreign-substance-rules-being-finalized-rollout-pending-sources-say

 

It's happening

[MrTPlush]

Foreign substances have exploded in recent years because it became more of a common thing and there was zero punishment. Everyone caught on that they should just do it themselves. Should be interesting how this affects the Brewers. Our entire ‘Big 3’ have been caught doing it by fan videos. At the same time, maybe it helps the offense a bit at the same time.

[jonescm128]

Foreign substances have exploded in recent years because it became more of a common thing and there was zero punishment. Everyone caught on that they should just do it themselves. Should be interesting how this affects the Brewers. Our entire ‘Big 3’ have been caught doing it by fan videos. At the same time, maybe it helps the offense a bit at the same time.

 

I'd like to see these fan videos...

[timpep]

Foreign substances have exploded in recent years because it became more of a common thing and there was zero punishment. Everyone caught on that they should just do it themselves. Should be interesting how this affects the Brewers. Our entire ‘Big 3’ have been caught doing it by fan videos. At the same time, maybe it helps the offense a bit at the same time.

 

I'd like to see these fan videos...

 

This was the first hit on google when i tried 'Brandon woodruff foreign substance'

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET4NP4N7Cx0&ab_channel=EverythingSports

 

I don't think we can deny that the Brewers do this just as much as pretty much everyone else.

[MrTPlush]

Foreign substances have exploded in recent years because it became more of a common thing and there was zero punishment. Everyone caught on that they should just do it themselves. Should be interesting how this affects the Brewers. Our entire ‘Big 3’ have been caught doing it by fan videos. At the same time, maybe it helps the offense a bit at the same time.

 

I'd like to see these fan videos...

 

The posted video shows Woodruff/Burnes, I already posted the guys handle. The Peralta video is in pretty similar fashion to how Woodruff uses his substance.

[jonescm128]

Foreign substances have exploded in recent years because it became more of a common thing and there was zero punishment. Everyone caught on that they should just do it themselves. Should be interesting how this affects the Brewers. Our entire ‘Big 3’ have been caught doing it by fan videos. At the same time, maybe it helps the offense a bit at the same time.

 

I'd like to see these fan videos...

 

This was the first hit on google when i tried 'Brandon woodruff foreign substance'

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET4NP4N7Cx0&ab_channel=EverythingSports

 

I don't think we can deny that the Brewers do this just as much as pretty much everyone else.

 

I’m going to be very upset if our pitchers start sucking now

[areacodes]

Foreign substances have exploded in recent years because it became more of a common thing and there was zero punishment. Everyone caught on that they should just do it themselves. Should be interesting how this affects the Brewers. Our entire ‘Big 3’ have been caught doing it by fan videos. At the same time, maybe it helps the offense a bit at the same time.

 

I'd like to see these fan videos...

 

This was the first hit on google when i tried 'Brandon woodruff foreign substance'

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET4NP4N7Cx0&ab_channel=EverythingSports

 

I don't think we can deny that the Brewers do this just as much as pretty much everyone else.

 

Just watching the Mets-Padres game as I watched that video. I’m not going to deny that it is likely the Brewers (along with lots of players/teams) are using foreign substances but hey_commy definitely states that DeGrom is clean in his video and I looked up and watch him do the exact same thing that is “proof” that Woodruff and Burnes are doing it.

 

 

Could be that there just hasn’t been video of DeGrom doing it, but based on his absurd numbers it seems likely too.

[umphrey]

Any starter with ERA under 3 is probably not clean honestly

[Eye Black]

Bauer’s fastball spin rate was apparently down quite a bit from his season average in his start today.

 

Tweet from Jorge Castillo:

 

Trevor Bauer’s average four-seam fastball spin rate this season entering today: 2,835 RPM.

 

Bauer’s average spin rate on 18 four-seam fastballs through three innings today: 2,613 RPM.

 

That’s 222 RPM below average.