Is Hader Limited to Throwing One Inning Per Game This Season?

[DoubleSwitch]

I would simply like to know if CC was told not to throw Hader more than one inning? That’s a news story, right? It’s not 12 vs. the Packers, but it is a story. If there is one player that could feel unappreciated by Brewers management, ala Arod, it would be Hader! Year to year contract, underpaid, pitching any where from a third of an inning to three innings....

 

And now, this guy is being used drastically different, and CC is managing the bullpen way different too, for good or bad. Just looking for the question to be asked....

 

Did Josh or his rep. ask to not pitch multiple innings?

 

Giving this information away publicly would give a tactical advantage to the Brewers opponents. You don't want anyone to know exactly how and when Josh will be used.

[rickh150]

Hoby Milner...... Hoby Milner was warming up hot on Thursday. He was seemingly coming in with bases loaded, two out, up two, to face a lefty. Hader was on two days rest. I’ll give it a rest now, but yeah...

[pacopete4]

Oh, you mean we operate like all other teams? I'm sure that story will just dominate the press.

[Oxy]

I don't mind the one inning and one inning only strategy at this point in the season, but it would be nice if it could be the 8th or especially the 10th if the situation warrants it. And as we get to September I'd hope that it becomes slightly more flexible as well.

[homer]

Even if it’s Hader’s camp wants him pitching just one inning..... that’s a story. Of course brewerfan would be all over that.

Looking for the question to be asked..... strictly a 9th inning man now for some reason.

 

Here is the second post in the thread:

Both Hader and CC have talked about this. They're ditching the multiple inning appearances so he can make more appearances overall. And Hader said he prefers it this way. The results speak for themselves.

 

Here's a story with quotes:

https://www.mlb.com/news/josh-hader-eager-for-more-appearances

 

Here is a quote:

In multiple-inning stints with plenty of rest in between, like manager Craig Counsell used Hader early in his career? Or as a more traditional kind of closer, pitching one-inning stints in a higher number of appearances?

 

For what it’s worth, Hader says he “absolutely” prefers the latter.

 

“I think that's the biggest thing. … Previously I'd be down for a few days when you go multiple innings,” Hader said. “So, the usage is definitely different. You're able to impact more games than multiple innings in a game. I think this is one of the biggest things for me. … These one-inning stints have [allowed] me to get on routine and be able to really focus on pitching day after day.”

 

Here is another story from Spring Training:

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2021/03/23/milwaukee-brewers-josh-hader-happy-with-more-defined-ninth-inning-role/

 

Milwaukee Brewers reliever Josh Hader expects to remain more of a traditional ninth-inning closer this season after occasionally working multiple innings earlier in his career.

 

“The closer rule is a good fit, especially with the bullpen arms we have,” the two-time All-Star said Tuesday from the Brewers’ spring-training site in Phoenix.

 

Brewers manager Craig Counsell said Hader will fill largely the same role as last season. Hader acknowledged that working multiple innings can be a grind and said he appreciated the more defined ninth-inning assignment last season.

 

“The ups and downs are what’s more taxing than anything, especially the amount of pitches,” Hader said. “That’s something that wears and tears on you over the course of the season.”

[SeaBass]

Even if it’s Hader’s camp wants him pitching just one inning..... that’s a story. Of course brewerfan would be all over that.

Looking for the question to be asked..... strictly a 9th inning man now for some reason.

None of this is a secret. Have you googled "Hader closer 9th inning"? Hader has straight out said he prefers this role and thinks it's helpful for him to know what to expect when it comes to how he's going to be used. Obviously the team agrees. I can't understand how anyone thinks this is some grand conspiracy.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

And again as I said in the first reply, the results speak for themselves. But by all means, let's keep complaining about something that is working.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

Hader isn’t ever going to be the multi inning guy he was in 2017 or 2018. He is a single inning guy for 95% of his outings going forward. It’s working. He’s never hurt. Rarely needs extra days off. He’s gotten better and more effective over his career. Also, when he does close games he’s very successful. Not everyone is cut out for the 9th inning. Hader has proven the moment isn’t too big for him consistently. To complain about arguably the best reliever in baseball the past 3+ years usage, seems like a bad road to go down. Enjoy the domination while he is still in a brewers uniform.

 

Also, if Hader is in any game, that means we are winning. And he’s pitched in 40% of our games and has a 1.8war. Again, enjoy the ride.

[Underachiever]

I get the one inning thing. But the 2 2/3, 8 strikeout game against the Reds was really cool.

[rickh150]

Even if it’s Hader’s camp wants him pitching just one inning..... that’s a story. Of course brewerfan would be all over that.

Looking for the question to be asked..... strictly a 9th inning man now for some reason.

None of this is a secret. Have you googled "Hader closer 9th inning"? Hader has straight out said he prefers this role and thinks it's helpful for him to know what to expect when it comes to how he's going to be used. Obviously the team agrees. I can't understand how anyone thinks this is some grand conspiracy.

 

Hader prefers it that way and the team agrees. Glad we got to the bottom of that.

[rickh150]

Oh, you mean we operate like all other teams? I'm sure that story will just dominate the press.

 

It would.

[adambr2]

Oh, you mean we operate like all other teams? I'm sure that story will just dominate the press.

 

It would.

 

But it's been in the press and it didn't dominate it. There have been quotes provided that provide insight into the transitioned role. It's just not this huge deal.

[MrTPlush]

I would simply like to know if CC was told not to throw Hader more than one inning? That’s a news story, right? It’s not 12 vs. the Packers, but it is a story. If there is one player that could feel unappreciated by Brewers management, ala Arod, it would be Hader! Year to year contract, underpaid, pitching any where from a third of an inning to three innings....

 

And now, this guy is being used drastically different, and CC is managing the bullpen way different too, for good or bad. Just looking for the question to be asked....

 

Did Josh or his rep. ask to not pitch multiple innings?

 

Giving this information away publicly would give a tactical advantage to the Brewers opponents. You don't want anyone to know exactly how and when Josh will be used.

 

It already is public information. All you need to do is type Josh Hader into google, hit stats, and see 24 appearances and zero are multi innings. Pretty obvious how he is being used and will be used in the future.

[rickh150]

Hader isn’t ever going to be the multi inning guy he was in 2017 or 2018. He is a single inning guy for 95% of his outings going forward. It’s working. He’s never hurt. Rarely needs extra days off. He’s gotten better and more effective over his career. Also, when he does close games he’s very successful. Not everyone is cut out for the 9th inning. Hader has proven the moment isn’t too big for him consistently. To complain about arguably the best reliever in baseball the past 3+ years usage, seems like a bad road to go down. Enjoy the domination while he is still in a brewers uniform.

 

Also, if Hader is in any game, that means we are winning. And he’s pitched in 40% of our games and has a 1.8war. Again, enjoy the ride.

 

Totally enjoying the ride... not complaining about Hader at all... just questioning his strict usage after years of versatility.

[rickh150]

I would simply like to know if CC was told not to throw Hader more than one inning? That’s a news story, right? It’s not 12 vs. the Packers, but it is a story. If there is one player that could feel unappreciated by Brewers management, ala Arod, it would be Hader! Year to year contract, underpaid, pitching any where from a third of an inning to three innings....

 

And now, this guy is being used drastically different, and CC is managing the bullpen way different too, for good or bad. Just looking for the question to be asked....

 

Did Josh or his rep. ask to not pitch multiple innings?

 

Giving this information away publicly would give a tactical advantage to the Brewers opponents. You don't want anyone to know exactly how and when Josh will be used.

 

It already is public information. All you need to do is type Josh Hader into google, hit stats, and see 24 appearances and zero are multi innings. Pretty obvious how he is being used and will be used in the future.

 

 

Nobody thinks we’re going to need him in the 8th with two outs and Williams struggling at 35+ pitches? I’d like to see us get to him occasionally in this situation against a big division foe, late season, or playoffs.

[rickh150]

Even if it’s Hader’s camp wants him pitching just one inning..... that’s a story. Of course brewerfan would be all over that.

Looking for the question to be asked..... strictly a 9th inning man now for some reason.

 

Here is the second post in the thread:

Both Hader and CC have talked about this. They're ditching the multiple inning appearances so he can make more appearances overall. And Hader said he prefers it this way. The results speak for themselves.

 

Here's a story with quotes:

https://www.mlb.com/news/josh-hader-eager-for-more-appearances

 

Here is a quote:

In multiple-inning stints with plenty of rest in between, like manager Craig Counsell used Hader early in his career? Or as a more traditional kind of closer, pitching one-inning stints in a higher number of appearances?

 

For what it’s worth, Hader says he “absolutely” prefers the latter.

 

“I think that's the biggest thing. … Previously I'd be down for a few days when you go multiple innings,” Hader said. “So, the usage is definitely different. You're able to impact more games than multiple innings in a game. I think this is one of the biggest things for me. … These one-inning stints have [allowed] me to get on routine and be able to really focus on pitching day after day.”

 

Here is another story from Spring Training:

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2021/03/23/milwaukee-brewers-josh-hader-happy-with-more-defined-ninth-inning-role/

 

Milwaukee Brewers reliever Josh Hader expects to remain more of a traditional ninth-inning closer this season after occasionally working multiple innings earlier in his career.

 

“The closer rule is a good fit, especially with the bullpen arms we have,” the two-time All-Star said Tuesday from the Brewers’ spring-training site in Phoenix.

 

Brewers manager Craig Counsell said Hader will fill largely the same role as last season. Hader acknowledged that working multiple innings can be a grind and said he appreciated the more defined ninth-inning assignment last season.

 

“The ups and downs are what’s more taxing than anything, especially the amount of pitches,” Hader said. “That’s something that wears and tears on you over the course of the season.”

 

Sounds like Hader definitely wants it this way.....

[adambr2]

Yes, it does. And this information was out in the spring, so it rightfully just hasn't been made a very big story out of in the media.

 

To answer your other question about there being situations with 2 out in the 8th and Devin having a rising pitch count where the situation seems to scream for a 4 out Hader save, yes there have been such situations, and I'm sure there will be more.

 

It's been frustrating at times for me too, but they're looking big picture. The explanation of shorter outings to have Hader impact more games is a good one. We have very good starting pitching and don't need a lot of length in the pen most nights so the idea of getting Hader to work on more possible nights to close out a 2-1 pitcher's duel is sound.

 

My personal speculation is that if they're in a tight September race, Counsell might be more apt to bend the rules and try to get 4 outs out of Hader. But for now, they're just going to have to get some late outs from other guys.

[rickh150]

Yes, it does. And this information was out in the spring, so it rightfully just hasn't been made a very big story out of in the media.

 

To answer your other question about there being situations with 2 out in the 8th and Devin having a rising pitch count where the situation seems to scream for a 4 out Hader save, yes there have been such situations, and I'm sure there will be more.

 

It's been frustrating at times for me too, but they're looking big picture. The explanation of shorter outings to have Hader impact more games is a good one. We have very good starting pitching and don't need a lot of length in the pen most nights so the idea of getting Hader to work on more possible nights to close out a 2-1 pitcher's duel is sound.

 

My personal speculation is that if they're in a tight September race, Counsell might be more apt to bend the rules and try to get 4 outs out of Hader. But for now, they're just going to have to get some late outs from other guys.

 

 

Very well said...

Just so CC has this versatility at any time to put a Hader in in the 8th, and not handcuffed because of some mutual understanding between agent/player that he is strictly a one inning pitcher. That’s the heart of my point.

[pacopete4]

You don’t have a point. You’ve rambled through your own thoughts and tried to make this into something. You’ve failed. On to the next thing to gripe about…

[areacodes]

Yes, it does. And this information was out in the spring, so it rightfully just hasn't been made a very big story out of in the media.

 

To answer your other question about there being situations with 2 out in the 8th and Devin having a rising pitch count where the situation seems to scream for a 4 out Hader save, yes there have been such situations, and I'm sure there will be more.

 

It's been frustrating at times for me too, but they're looking big picture. The explanation of shorter outings to have Hader impact more games is a good one. We have very good starting pitching and don't need a lot of length in the pen most nights so the idea of getting Hader to work on more possible nights to close out a 2-1 pitcher's duel is sound.

 

My personal speculation is that if they're in a tight September race, Counsell might be more apt to bend the rules and try to get 4 outs out of Hader. But for now, they're just going to have to get some late outs from other guys.

 

I think part of it is also has to do with how few innings he pitched last year due to the shortened season. They probably want to have it be less taxing early on so he’s able to be more versatile in a pennant race/playoffs later on in the year.

[rickh150]

You don’t have a point. You’ve rambled through your own thoughts and tried to make this into something. You’ve failed. On to the next thing to gripe about…

 

With Hader just pitching one inning, that is a major change this year. It is a relevant discussion on a fan site, right?

 

If Hader is dictating to CC that he is only pitching one inning and one inning at most each appearance, that is also something. If so, is CC handcuffing himself by agreeing to this change? We still don’t know how strict CC is going to be or possibly needs to be with this, do we? Will this continue all season? Playoffs?

 

All the preseason articles or links shown that talk about the usage change with Hader are interesting and topical (and thanks for those) but not really relevant to what is being brought up here. Yeah, we the fans are being told that he is being used differently this year. Sure. Seems to be working well, to boot. Great! I’m wondering about the why and how this all went down and it’s potential ramifications. Mutually agreed upon or dictated to? Part of contract negotiations? Strictly one inning? We don’t know, which makes each Hader outing extra interesting for me.

 

It just seems something totally anti-CC to define these bullpen roles! He is the guy that coined the phrase “out getters” instead of starters/relievers. He has four starting outfielders. He changes lineups daily. He’s the guy that would pitch Hader to the middle of the lineup in the 8th to have someone else pitch the 9th. He thought outside of the box and didn’t care a whole lot about upsetting a guy’s feelings, if he’s in line for a win (or loss), a shutout, pulling him whenever. Versatility to the max.

 

Yep, there are some ramblings and repetitive things have been written. My apologies. However, I do feel there is maybe something here. A strict no pitching Hader more than one inning mandate made by player/agent would be a story. It would limit what CC could or arguably should do in a game with the most versatile, dominant weapon in major league bullpens. Because of the non CC like changes made to the bullpen as a whole this season, because of Hader’s contract simply being renewed a couple of seasons back with player complaint, because of not pitching Hader even a third of an inning more in obvious, other year, Hader times, I wonder things...... things that haven’t yet been asked or probably will never be asked by the media.

[pacopete4]

You don’t have a point. You’ve rambled through your own thoughts and tried to make this into something. You’ve failed. On to the next thing to gripe about…

 

With Hader just pitching one inning, that is a major change this year. It is a relevant discussion on a fan site, right?

 

If Hader is dictating to CC that he is only pitching one inning and one inning at most each appearance, that is also something. If so, is CC handcuffing himself by agreeing to this change? We still don’t know how strict CC is going to be or possibly needs to be with this, do we? Will this continue all season? Playoffs?

 

All the preseason articles or links shown that talk about the usage change with Hader are interesting and topical (and thanks for those) but not really relevant to what is being brought up here. Yeah, we the fans are being told that he is being used differently this year. Sure. Seems to be working well, to boot. Great! I’m wondering about the why and how this all went down and it’s potential ramifications. Mutually agreed upon or dictated to? Part of contract negotiations? Strictly one inning? We don’t know, which makes each Hader outing extra interesting for me.

 

It just seems something totally anti-CC to define these bullpen roles! He is the guy that coined the phrase “out getters” instead of starters/relievers. He has four starting outfielders. He changes lineups daily. He’s the guy that would pitch Hader to the middle of the lineup in the 8th to have someone else pitch the 9th. He thought outside of the box and didn’t care a whole lot about upsetting a guy’s feelings, if he’s in line for a win (or loss), a shutout, pulling him whenever. Versatility to the max.

 

Yep, there are some ramblings and repetitive things have been written. My apologies. However, I do feel there is maybe something here. A strict no pitching Hader more than one inning mandate made by player/agent would be a story. It would limit what CC could or arguably should do in a game with the most versatile, dominant weapon in major league bullpens. Because of the non CC like changes made to the bullpen as a whole this season, because of Hader’s contract simply being renewed a couple of seasons back with player complaint, because of not pitching Hader even a third of an inning more in obvious, other year, Hader times, I wonder things...... things that haven’t yet been asked or probably will never be asked by the media.

 

Hader basically only pitched the 9th inning last year as well. This isn’t new.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Hader is the closer.

 

There's a 0% chance that Counsell, Stearns, or someone associated with the organization is going to come out and say "We only use him in the 9th as per an agreement with Josh and his agent". That is just not going to happen. If a reporter asked that, they aren't going to answer it. Reporters generally aren't going to ask questions like that because they already know that closers come in in the 9th inning with a 3 run lead or not, because conventional baseball wisdom says "that's how it is", even if it actually doesn't make sense. They might ask questions about Hader's usage, but they're not going to ask if his usage is related to his contract status.

[rickh150]

2020

8/14 Pitched 1 and 1/3 in 8th and 9th

9/14 Pitched 7th inning

9/25 Pitched 7th inning

[DuWayne Steurer]

Hader had 21 appearances last year, and 17 times he finished the game. So as the previous poster said, he "basically" only pitched the 9th last year. He pitched 19 innings in 21 appearances. Nothing is absolute, but the stats suggest that the 9th inning of games the Brewers lead (in save or tie situations) is going to *predominantly* be his usage.