Were the Brewers actually cheating?

[jonescm128]

I wonder what kind of affect the Astros cheating scandal has had on offensive decline across the league, especially the Brewers. The scandal broke in November 2019 and since then the Brewers offense has not been good, most notably Christian Yelich. I remember Yu Darvish calling out Yelich for sign stealing and other sources named the Astros, Rangers and Brewers as the biggest offenders.

 

Yelich has been a shell of himself over the last two years. Strikeouts are WAY up and power is down. Were reports of him stealing signs actually true? Is this why he has struggled so much? It's hard for me to imagine his knee injury having this kind of affect on him unless he is just tentative up there afraid it may happen again. I never really gave it much credence but a buddy of mine keeps mentioning it so I thought it would be an interesting question to pose to the community here.

[adambr2]

I have no idea. If they stopped cheating and could start again, that would be great.

 

In seriousness, I doubt there is any relation here. I'll never say never, though.

[SRB]

The sign stealing thing is really overblown, even for the Astros. Their trash can scheme did not give them that much of an advantage. Not surprisingly they currently have the best offense in MLB once again (because they have a bunch of really good hitters).

[SeaBass]

I wonder what kind of affect the Astros cheating scandal has had on offensive decline across the league, especially the Brewers. The scandal broke in November 2019 and since then the Brewers offense has not been good, most notably Christian Yelich. I remember Yu Darvish calling out Yelich for sign stealing and other sources named the Astros, Rangers and Brewers as the biggest offenders.

 

Yelich has been a shell of himself over the last two years. Strikeouts are WAY up and power is down. Were reports of him stealing signs actually true? Is this why he has struggled so much? It's hard for me to imagine his knee injury having this kind of affect on him unless he is just tentative up there afraid it may happen again. I never really gave it much credence but a buddy of mine keeps mentioning it so I thought it would be an interesting question to pose to the community here.

Even if we entertain the idea Yelich benefited from organizational sign stealing resulting in MVP type seasons why wouldn't he at least play to his offensive numbers from his time as a Marlin if the Brewers stopped using those methods? It's not like he was garbage before coming to Milwaukee. I just don't buy this hearsay as evidence.

[rickh150]

The sign stealing thing is really overblown, even for the Astros. Their trash can scheme did not give them that much of an advantage. Not surprisingly they currently have the best offense in MLB once again (because they have a bunch of really good hitters).

 

 

But it did give them at advantage, right? In a game where one at bat can make or break a game, it can’t be underestimated.

[Pugger]

Even if we entertain the idea Yelich benefited from organizational sign stealing resulting in MVP type seasons why wouldn't he at least play to his offensive numbers from his time as a Marlin if the Brewers stopped using those methods? It's not like he was garbage before coming to Milwaukee. I just don't buy this hearsay as evidence.

 

QFT

[MrTPlush]

Speaking of cheating, Freddy Peralta is an obvious user of foreign substance inside his glove. I thought MLB was going to crack down on that, but can’t say I have seen any punishment.

 

John Means may be the worst in baseball. His fingers literally get stuck on his glove, dude got gorilla glue in there or something. Means threw a no hitter earlier in the year.

[Boomer5]

Speaking of cheating, Freddy Peralta is an obvious user of foreign substance inside his glove. I thought MLB was going to crack down on that, but can’t say I have seen any punishment.

 

John Means may be the worst in baseball. His fingers literally get stuck on his glove, dude got gorilla glue in there or something. Means threw a no hitter earlier in the year.

 

Is this true? I hadn’t heard that.

[MrTPlush]

Speaking of cheating, Freddy Peralta is an obvious user of foreign substance inside his glove. I thought MLB was going to crack down on that, but can’t say I have seen any punishment.

 

John Means may be the worst in baseball. His fingers literally get stuck on his glove, dude got gorilla glue in there or something. Means threw a no hitter earlier in the year.

 

Is this true? I hadn’t heard that.

 

Yeah. I can’t find the video, but it was from the Braves game. He had it between the thumb and webbing on the inside of his glove.

 

I know a lot of pitchers do it, but it will be notable if they actually crack down on it. Isn’t Peralta a big spin rate guy and that is part of why he is much improved these days?

[sveumrules]

Speaking of cheating, Freddy Peralta is an obvious user of foreign substance inside his glove. I thought MLB was going to crack down on that, but can’t say I have seen any punishment.

 

John Means may be the worst in baseball. His fingers literally get stuck on his glove, dude got gorilla glue in there or something. Means threw a no hitter earlier in the year.

 

Is this true? I hadn’t heard that.

 

Yeah. I can’t find the video, but it was from the Braves game. He had it between the thumb and webbing on the inside of his glove.

 

I know a lot of pitchers do it, but it will be notable if they actually crack down on it. Isn’t Peralta a big spin rate guy and that is part of why he is much improved these days?

 

Thought this was a pretty interesting look at how Freddy has tweaked his wind up & breaking ball shape/usage in 2021...

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/fastball-freddys-fast-new-windup/

 

According to StatCast the active spin on his slider is the same as 2020 & the active spin on his fastball has increased 2% from 83 to 85.

[reillymcshane]

I wonder what kind of affect the Astros cheating scandal has had on offensive decline across the league, especially the Brewers. The scandal broke in November 2019 and since then the Brewers offense has not been good, most notably Christian Yelich. I remember Yu Darvish calling out Yelich for sign stealing and other sources named the Astros, Rangers and Brewers as the biggest offenders.

 

Yelich has been a shell of himself over the last two years. Strikeouts are WAY up and power is down. Were reports of him stealing signs actually true? Is this why he has struggled so much? It's hard for me to imagine his knee injury having this kind of affect on him unless he is just tentative up there afraid it may happen again. I never really gave it much credence but a buddy of mine keeps mentioning it so I thought it would be an interesting question to pose to the community here.

Were there reports of him stealing signs? I've never heard this. Links would be great to these reports.

 

Thanks.

[Underachiever]

I wonder what kind of affect the Astros cheating scandal has had on offensive decline across the league, especially the Brewers. The scandal broke in November 2019 and since then the Brewers offense has not been good, most notably Christian Yelich. I remember Yu Darvish calling out Yelich for sign stealing and other sources named the Astros, Rangers and Brewers as the biggest offenders.

 

Yelich has been a shell of himself over the last two years. Strikeouts are WAY up and power is down. Were reports of him stealing signs actually true? Is this why he has struggled so much? It's hard for me to imagine his knee injury having this kind of affect on him unless he is just tentative up there afraid it may happen again. I never really gave it much credence but a buddy of mine keeps mentioning it so I thought it would be an interesting question to pose to the community here.

Were there reports of him stealing signs? I've never heard this. Links would be great to these reports.

 

Thanks.

 

Reports? Not really a report, but Darvish seemed to think that the bullpen was relaying signs to Yelich.

https://sports.yahoo.com/yu-darvish-comment-fuels-brewers-signstealing-speculation-christian-yelich-fires-back-234740903.html

[jonescm128]

I wonder what kind of affect the Astros cheating scandal has had on offensive decline across the league, especially the Brewers. The scandal broke in November 2019 and since then the Brewers offense has not been good, most notably Christian Yelich. I remember Yu Darvish calling out Yelich for sign stealing and other sources named the Astros, Rangers and Brewers as the biggest offenders.

 

Yelich has been a shell of himself over the last two years. Strikeouts are WAY up and power is down. Were reports of him stealing signs actually true? Is this why he has struggled so much? It's hard for me to imagine his knee injury having this kind of affect on him unless he is just tentative up there afraid it may happen again. I never really gave it much credence but a buddy of mine keeps mentioning it so I thought it would be an interesting question to pose to the community here.

Were there reports of him stealing signs? I've never heard this. Links would be great to these reports.

 

Thanks.

 

Reports? Not really a report, but Darvish seemed to think that the bullpen was relaying signs to Yelich.

https://sports.yahoo.com/yu-darvish-comment-fuels-brewers-signstealing-speculation-christian-yelich-fires-back-234740903.html

 

Yeah this is what I was referring to

[reillymcshane]

I wonder what kind of affect the Astros cheating scandal has had on offensive decline across the league, especially the Brewers. The scandal broke in November 2019 and since then the Brewers offense has not been good, most notably Christian Yelich. I remember Yu Darvish calling out Yelich for sign stealing and other sources named the Astros, Rangers and Brewers as the biggest offenders.

 

Yelich has been a shell of himself over the last two years. Strikeouts are WAY up and power is down. Were reports of him stealing signs actually true? Is this why he has struggled so much? It's hard for me to imagine his knee injury having this kind of affect on him unless he is just tentative up there afraid it may happen again. I never really gave it much credence but a buddy of mine keeps mentioning it so I thought it would be an interesting question to pose to the community here.

Were there reports of him stealing signs? I've never heard this. Links would be great to these reports.

 

Thanks.

 

Reports? Not really a report, but Darvish seemed to think that the bullpen was relaying signs to Yelich.

https://sports.yahoo.com/yu-darvish-comment-fuels-brewers-signstealing-speculation-christian-yelich-fires-back-234740903.html

Thanks for link.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The scandal broke in November 2019 and since then the Brewers offense has not been good, most notably Christian Yelich.

 

Or, you know, fouling a ball off one's kneecap and shattering it followed by natural hesitancy in the batters box recovering from that injury in a pandemic-shortened 2020 season coupled with what appears to be nagging back issues to start this year could be to blame.

[CheezWizHed]

[sarcasm]Well the obvious answer to MLB's offensive short-comings is to simply allow sign stealing again. Or maybe better yet, force the pitcher and catcher to not use signs and simply yell back and forth what they intend to do.[/sarcasm]

[MrTPlush]

The scandal broke in November 2019 and since then the Brewers offense has not been good, most notably Christian Yelich.

 

Or, you know, fouling a ball off one's kneecap and shattering it followed by natural hesitancy in the batters box recovering from that injury in a pandemic-shortened 2020 season coupled with what appears to be nagging back issues to start this year could be to blame.

 

Or the fact we lost Grandal and Moustakas. They were then replaced by Narvaez (not with the team prior and sucked in 2020) and Hiura (horrendous after 2019...but he can't hit it even if you told him what was coming).

[jonescm128]

The scandal broke in November 2019 and since then the Brewers offense has not been good, most notably Christian Yelich.

 

Or, you know, fouling a ball off one's kneecap and shattering it followed by natural hesitancy in the batters box recovering from that injury in a pandemic-shortened 2020 season coupled with what appears to be nagging back issues to start this year could be to blame.

 

 

Which is why I said I never gave it much credence. I was just posing the question because a friend of mine keeps mentioning it and thought it would be a fun topic to post here.

[Underachiever]

[sarcasm]Well the obvious answer to MLB's offensive short-comings is to simply allow sign stealing again. Or maybe better yet, force the pitcher and catcher to not use signs and simply yell back and forth what they intend to do.[/sarcasm]

Ah, the Greinke method!

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm sure every team has either used or attempted to create some sort of sign stealing system. We might as well allow it at this point since 1. Everyone's doing it and 2. the majority of MLB can't hit at all right now.

[torts]

I wonder what kind of affect the Astros cheating scandal has had on offensive decline across the league, especially the Brewers. The scandal broke in November 2019 and since then the Brewers offense has not been good, most notably Christian Yelich. I remember Yu Darvish calling out Yelich for sign stealing and other sources named the Astros, Rangers and Brewers as the biggest offenders.

 

Yelich has been a shell of himself over the last two years. Strikeouts are WAY up and power is down. Were reports of him stealing signs actually true? Is this why he has struggled so much? It's hard for me to imagine his knee injury having this kind of affect on him unless he is just tentative up there afraid it may happen again. I never really gave it much credence but a buddy of mine keeps mentioning it so I thought it would be an interesting question to pose to the community here.

 

2021 is small samplesize, not sure how you can draw any conclusion of anything at this point, especially considering he's been out for injury for the vast majority of the season.

 

2020, they said they got rid of the replay review in the dugouts, which a lot of players complained about, saying it negatively impacted their performance.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/24/sports/baseball/in-game-video.html

[roadcrew3]

The aspect of this theory I don't understand is that it assumes the Brewers bullpen was participating on the scheme. I have a hard time believing that to be the case. Pitchers view themselves as a brotherhood and a scheme like that negatively impacts their livelihood. Yeah it might help their current team win but those guys are smart enough to realize that one day they might be pitching against it and obviously nobody wants that.

[ReverendBrewmeister]

Whether the Brewers were cheating or not may be in dispute, but more allegations about sign-stealing in the same seasons (2018) by other National League teams (Rockies and, possibly, Dodgers) have been made by old friend Erik Kratz:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/05/erik-kratz-makes-sign-stealing-allegations.html

 

If the Brewers were also doing so at the same time, it might be a bit of an awkward situation.

[KeithStone53151]

The aspect of this theory I don't understand is that it assumes the Brewers bullpen was participating on the scheme. I have a hard time believing that to be the case. Pitchers view themselves as a brotherhood and a scheme like that negatively impacts their livelihood. Yeah it might help their current team win but those guys are smart enough to realize that one day they might be pitching against it and obviously nobody wants that.

 

This, or inevitably the Mike Fiers in the Brewers bullpen comes forward and rats the whole thing out.

[owbc]

Given MLB's "punishment" of the Astros, I would hope the Brewers are trying every way they can to steal signs right now. It's the only way to hit the ball these days.

 

Just look at the Red Sox this year -- #1 offense in MLB with Alex Cora back as manager. One wonders what "trick" he has come up with now...