Brewers trade Feyereisen, Rasmussen to Rays for SS Willy Adames, RHP Trevor Richards

[adambr2]

So we traded one "A" reliever and one "B" reliever to upgrade our shortstop position. I find it interesting that some of the "the bullpen is bad" people are the same saying we overpaid by trading none of our top 3 relievers.

 

Huh? I am warming up to the trade, but

 

1) Feyereisen was definitely one of our top 3 relievers

 

2) Unless you are trading a couple garbage AAAA arms, which these guys were not, it still hurts your bullpen. We're still going to have to replace two relievers with depth that we don't have.

 

Hader, Williams and Suter are better in the pen than JP. Not sure why anyone would overrate him for a good 19 innings to start the year.

 

If you think a 31 year old soft tossing lefty with no stuff who relies purely on deception and timing is/was our 3rd best reliever, then I would say that pretty accurately illustrates the point of those who think the bullpen is bad.

 

Arm-wise and ability-wise, yeah, no question, JP is better than Suter. Rasmussen is better than Suter.

[wallus]

Regular season bullpen depth might be the most overrated thing in baseball.

[MrTPlush]

I think Stearns got caught up in SS being a more premium position compared to a corner OFer. I think the signings of Cain, JBJ, and especially Avisail Garcia (who essentially replaced Grisham) is a clear sign of this. Stearns thinks that is an easier position to find help with via FA etc. and SS is not. I am guessing the Brewers found Urias/Grisham to be comparable value, but one was going to do it at a more premium position.

[wallus]

 

If you think a 31 year old soft tossing lefty with no stuff who relies purely on deception and timing is/was our 3rd best reliever, then I would say that pretty accurately illustrates the point of those who think the bullpen is bad.

 

Arm-wise and ability-wise, yeah, no question, JP is better than Suter. Rasmussen is better than Suter.

 

I'm sorry but pitching is judged based on getting outs, not based on how fast you throw. I'd love to see your pre-season posts that were so high on JP.

[adambr2]

Regular season bullpen depth might be the most overrated thing in baseball.

 

Nah, I don't agree. Bullpen depth is important. The Kansas City Royals won a World Series with a totally mediocre team otherwise. The Brewers don't seem to agree with you much either, since they're very active in any contending year at upgrading bullpen depth at the deadline.

 

I do agree that relievers can be volatile and tough to project and you have to keep then in mind when investing in relief help, but you can't just throw crap at the wall for 162 games and expect to get away with it.

[adambr2]

 

If you think a 31 year old soft tossing lefty with no stuff who relies purely on deception and timing is/was our 3rd best reliever, then I would say that pretty accurately illustrates the point of those who think the bullpen is bad.

 

Arm-wise and ability-wise, yeah, no question, JP is better than Suter. Rasmussen is better than Suter.

 

I'm sorry but pitching is judged based on getting outs, not based on how fast you throw. I'd love to see your pre-season posts that were so high on JP.

 

Never said I was "so high on JP." I said he had a better arm than Brent Suter.

 

Suter is a "guy". Like Alex Claudio was a guy. They do some things well. Neither is the 3rd best reliever in a good bullpen.

Edited May 22, 2021 by adambr2

[ThisIsMyCrew]

I understand the thought that we “lost” the Grisham trade. But after that playoff loss to the Nationals I figured he was good as gone. Team destination didn’t matter at that point. In hindsight the value is off, but his move seemed inevitable.

[Oxy]

 

If you think a 31 year old soft tossing lefty with no stuff who relies purely on deception and timing is/was our 3rd best reliever, then I would say that pretty accurately illustrates the point of those who think the bullpen is bad.

 

Arm-wise and ability-wise, yeah, no question, JP is better than Suter. Rasmussen is better than Suter.

 

I'm sorry but pitching is judged based on getting outs, not based on how fast you throw. I'd love to see your pre-season posts that were so high on JP.

 

There is the control thing as well. Both JP and Rasmussen were cheap, flexible and effective and were to remain at least the first 2 of those for quite awhile.

[wallus]

Regular season bullpen depth might be the most overrated thing in baseball.

 

Nah, I don't agree. Bullpen depth is important. The Kansas City Royals won a World Series with a totally mediocre team otherwise. The Brewers don't seem to agree with you much either, since they're very active in any contending year at upgrading bullpen depth at the deadline.

 

I do agree that relievers can be volatile and tough to project and you have to keep then in mind when investing in relief help, but you can't just throw crap at the wall for 162 games and expect to get away with it.

 

I am guessing you missed regular season depth in my post. You really only need a few "A" relievers in the post season to get the job done. It is pretty likely that if we make the post season that our "A" relievers would be Hader, Williams, Houser, Suter and maybe someone like Topa.

[TURBO]

Urias at 3B?

 

He can't make throws from SS, how can anyone think he can make throws from 3B?

 

Arcia had a cannon, Urias doesn't, in fact, his arm strength is surprisingly poor.

[SomewhereInTime]

Urias at 3B?

 

He can't make throws from SS, how can anyone think he can make throws from 3B?

 

Arcia had a cannon, Urias doesn't, in fact, his arm strength is surprisingly poor.

 

Agree completely

[wallus]

 

 

Never said I was "so high on JP." I said he had a better arm than Brent Suter.

 

Suter is a "guy". Like Alex Claudio was a guy. They do some things well. Neither is the 3rd best reliever in a good bullpen.

 

Almost every reliever in baseball has a better arm than Suter so I don't know what point that was trying to make. I brought up your posts being high on JP because he had almost no value before the season started. The fact that he had a solid 19 innings this season really shouldn't change that much. He was coming back to earth recently and might not be a great reliever moving forward.

 

I am not a huge fan of trading JP and Drew but you have to give something to get something. I feel this is a nice job of taking a calculated risk to try and improve the team.

[wallus]

 

If you think a 31 year old soft tossing lefty with no stuff who relies purely on deception and timing is/was our 3rd best reliever, then I would say that pretty accurately illustrates the point of those who think the bullpen is bad.

 

Arm-wise and ability-wise, yeah, no question, JP is better than Suter. Rasmussen is better than Suter.

 

I'm sorry but pitching is judged based on getting outs, not based on how fast you throw. I'd love to see your pre-season posts that were so high on JP.

 

There is the control thing as well. Both JP and Rasmussen were cheap, flexible and effective and were to remain at least the first 2 of those for quite awhile.

 

Yes, this is a valid point. I believe DS thinks they can find more relief pitching either in the minors or on the waiver wire. We will see if he is correct.

[SRB]

We got Feyereisen off the scrap heap before 2020 and in 28.2 IP he has put up a 4.08 ERA, 5.32 FIP, 5.0 BB/9, and -0.1 fWAR

 

Rasmussen is actually older than Adames and has only pitched 105 IP in his entire professional career, including 32.1 IP in the majors with a 5.01 ERA, 4.28 FIP, 5.9 BB/9, and 0.0 fWAR. He's sort of an interesting upside prospect, but Adames has already shown upside in the majors.

 

I like both players a lot, particularly Feyereisen since he's from Wisconsin, but they strike me as easily replaced in terms of our 2021 bullpen.

[PeaveyFury]

The Brewers have a good track record of getting scrap-heap pen arms, getting good innings out of them, and flipping them when their values are high. I’m confident they’ll do something similar here.

[adambr2]

 

 

Never said I was "so high on JP." I said he had a better arm than Brent Suter.

 

Suter is a "guy". Like Alex Claudio was a guy. They do some things well. Neither is the 3rd best reliever in a good bullpen.

 

Almost every reliever in baseball has a better arm than Suter so I don't know what point that was trying to make. I brought up your posts being high on JP because he had almost no value before the season started. The fact that he had a solid 19 innings this season really shouldn't change that much. He was coming back to earth recently and might not be a great reliever moving forward.

 

I am not a huge fan of trading JP and Drew but you have to give something to get something. I feel this is a nice job of taking a calculated risk to try and improve the team.

 

I haven't been against the trade. I think it's a good value. I also think it definitely weakens the pen.

[JosephC]

Sorry if most of these numbers have already been discussed earlier in the thread. I'm just too lazy to go back and read through 8 pages.

 

Time will tell, but at first glance I love the deal. But I will be the first to admit, I am old school in that I find relievers to generally be over-valued and history has shown that they are the easiest thing to go out and acquire leading up to the trade deadline. So yeah, if you get a quality everyday starting lineup guy for relief pitching, I'm down for that every time.

 

Feyereisen is 28 years old, so far has 28 2/3 innings of 4.08 ERA, 5.32 FIP, 1.05 WHIP ball under his belt. The FIP is an ugly and concerning number. To me he has the look of an up-and-down reliever who will give you some good streaks and have some rough ones mixed in. Does he really look like a future closer or even A-division 8th inning guy? Nice guy to have but IMO definitely not an essential piece.

 

Rasmussen is 25 years old, so far has 32 1/3 innings of 5.01 ERA, 4.27 FIP, 1.57 WHIP ball under his belt. The FIP is easily the best looking number of the three but it's really propped up by the strikeout numbers. On the flip side, he has walked 5.8 hitters per 9 innings and his K/BB ratio is a pretty unimpressive 2.19. Sure he could get better, but he hasn't been all that great so far and has had two significant arm injuries already.

 

Meanwhile Adames was a 4.0 bWAR player in 2019 and is very close in age to Rasmussen. That's enough for me to make this deal every time and bank on the system (coaches and other staff) getting him back to that level. If he gets back to that level, that's 14 WAR throughout his remaining control, and even with all those Feyereisen and Rasmussen years of control...14 is a pretty big number when talking about relievers. Josh Hader closing in on 4 years and so far has been good for 8.2 bWAR.

 

Trevor Richards is just bonus material IMO and he's been a 4.42 ERA, 4.32 FIP, 1.39 WHIP pitcher with over 300 innings and 52 starts. Has been a starter in the past but now seems to be primarily a reliever. Lifetime as a starter, 4.46 ERA, 1.39 WHIP, 2.32 K/BB ratio [FIP not available on Baseball Reference, unfortunately]) with a slash line against of .256/.333/.438/.772. Lifetime as a reliever, 4.12 ERA, 1.37 WHIP, 3.33 K/BB ratio with a slash line against of .268/.318/.382/.700. Again, just bonus material but if he maintains those numbers as a reliever then he could be a useful addition to the pen. If not, he's a decent swingman option.

[Oxy]

The Rays always seem to be one step ahead of MLB, so I'm instantly suspicious of any deal they do where they seem to be giving up a lot of value. Perhaps Adames has been operating a secret dogfighting ring.

 

Jake Cronenworth, Nick Solak and Nate Lowe are all doing pretty well after the Rays jettisoned them.

[Eye Black]

Urias at 3B?

 

He can't make throws from SS, how can anyone think he can make throws from 3B?

 

Arcia had a cannon, Urias doesn't, in fact, his arm strength is surprisingly poor.

 

Agree completely

Literally every one of his throwing errors this year has been an overthrow. There are plenty of negative things that can be said about Urias, but it surprises me that anyone who has watched him play can believe he has some peashooter for an arm.

[SomewhereInTime]

Urias at 3B?

 

He can't make throws from SS, how can anyone think he can make throws from 3B?

 

Arcia had a cannon, Urias doesn't, in fact, his arm strength is surprisingly poor.

 

Agree completely

Literally every one of his throwing errors this year has been an overthrow. There are plenty of negative things that can be said about Urias, but it surprises me that anyone who has watched him play can believe he has some peashooter for an arm.

 

In his defense he's had plenty of throwing errors wide and plenty of plays that could've been made with a stronger arm. Perhaps the throws off target high are due to him rushing and trying to compensate for his general lack of arm. Luckily the Brewers seem to agree that he is no longer a viable option at SS going forward.

[Never Outhustled]

We got Feyereisen off the scrap heap before 2020 and in 28.2 IP he has put up a 4.08 ERA, 5.32 FIP, 5.0 BB/9, and -0.1 fWAR

 

Rasmussen is actually older than Adames and has only pitched 105 IP in his entire professional career, including 32.1 IP in the majors with a 5.01 ERA, 4.28 FIP, 5.9 BB/9, and 0.0 fWAR. He's sort of an interesting upside prospect, but Adames has already shown upside in the majors.

 

I like both players a lot, particularly Feyereisen since he's from Wisconsin, but they strike me as easily replaced in terms of our 2021 bullpen.

 

In the offseason sure, but we're in the middle of the season, and we're not seeing any interesting arms on the horizon. Heck, we can't even replace Lindblom.

[Eye Black]

In his defense he's had plenty of throwing errors wide and plenty of plays that could've been made with a stronger arm. Perhaps the throws off target high are due to him rushing and trying to compensate for his general lack of arm. Luckily the Brewers seem to agree that he is no longer a viable option at SS going forward.

His throwing errors have been when he’s taken his time and made what should be an easy throw across the diamond. Nearly every play where he’s had to rush he’s ended up making a perfect throw. Counsell mentioned he believes it’s more a mental issue than a physical issue, and I agree with that assessment. Claiming he has a lack of arm strength is simply a false narrative.

[Never Outhustled]

The Brewers have a good track record of getting scrap-heap pen arms, getting good innings out of them, and flipping them when their values are high. I’m confident they’ll do something similar here.

 

I'm sure there's a bunch of examples, but what are some of the examples of Stearns doing this successfully?

 

The Will Smith trade was a complete dud. The Phelps trade can't be graded for years yet.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The Brewers have a good track record of getting scrap-heap pen arms, getting good innings out of them, and flipping them when their values are high. I’m confident they’ll do something similar here.

 

I'm sure there's a bunch of examples, but what are some of the examples of Stearns doing this?

 

Phelps ... literally 9 months ago.

[Never Outhustled]

The Brewers have a good track record of getting scrap-heap pen arms, getting good innings out of them, and flipping them when their values are high. I’m confident they’ll do something similar here.

 

I'm sure there's a bunch of examples, but what are some of the examples of Stearns doing this?

 

Phelps ... literally 9 months ago.

 

 

We're years from that being a successful trade. Any successful examples?