MLB has an issue regarding pitching dominance

[SeaBass]

Rich Eisen with his take/rant: (sounds like a good plan to me)

 

Language warning: He does use a word that (starts with a b) may not be appreciated by some.

 

[RightFieldCoder]

He complains about all of the swing for the fences and strikeouts and says the answer is to change where the defenders stand.

[xisxisxis]

Language warning: He does use a word that (starts with a b) may not be appreciated by some.

Bunt?

[SeaBass]

He complains about all of the swing for the fences and strikeouts and says the answer is to change where the defenders stand.

I love when people defend the shift like it leads to amazing baseball. I wonder if coaches in little league are teaching it to kids or if they just let them play for the fun of the game.

[jerichoholicninja]

The umpires are also now worse at calling balls and strikes. The number of bad calls in the strike zone being called balls and pitches completely out of the strike zone being called strikes is alarming. The robot umps at least for calling balls and strikes needs to come immediately and I don't care if the umpires strike over this they can leave if they don't want this.

 

There is no way that is true. What we have now is technology that analyzes every pitch so you can clearly see if a ball is an inch outside or not. I can assure you if you watch an old game from 20+ years ago you will see balls 6 inches or more off the plate called strikes but you didn't have strikezone box over homeplate on the telecast so you just kind of eyeballed it and said it is what it is.

 

Just had this arguement with a guy I know from work. He thinks the umps are just worse today, I pointed out exactly what you just said. I don't believe the umps are worse, in fact, if you compared todays umps with umps from 20 years ago, I'd venture to say they are probably a lot better just because they don't want to look bad with today's technology.

 

I think these guys are doing the best they humanly can, but technology continues to show their flaws.

 

Umps of a previous generation changed the zone based on who the pitcher was or who the batter was. I have no doubt that umpires today are more consistent and accurate than umps of yore but one blown call totally changes the complexion of an at bat and a possibly a game. I have no problem with them being a coin flip half to one inch around the zone. The batters need to swing the darn bat. Don't let the ump decide an at bat. But umpires all calling pitches that are inches off the plate strikes and dead center balls. It's amazing some of the pitches I see these guys miss.

[FVBrewerFan]

How about limiting number of pitchers on the 26/40 man rosters? What are two biggest complaints right now? Length of game and 3TO offense.

 

Reduce the number of pitchers, and you won't have 10 pitching changes every game. You'll also force pitchers to go longer than you'd like, increasing scoring.

 

I really think that, and skrinking the strike zone a bit would really help.

[owbc]

How about limiting number of pitchers on the 26/40 man rosters? What are two biggest complaints right now? Length of game and 3TO offense.

 

Reduce the number of pitchers, and you won't have 10 pitching changes every game. You'll also force pitchers to go longer than you'd like, increasing scoring.

 

I really think that, and skrinking the strike zone a bit would really help.

 

Pitching changes are NOT the problem. It’s time between pitches. It’s been shown conclusively, there’s no debate. 5 minutes faster game for every 1 second you cut between pitches.

[AJOHNSON104]

Pitching changes are NOT the problem. It’s time between pitches. It’s been shown conclusively, there’s no debate. 5 minutes faster game for every 1 second you cut between pitches.

 

This is my issue with baseball. Many of these guys are taking 90 seconds or more between pitches, especially when they struggle. Giannis gets whistled for taking 11 seconds on a free throw and MLB pitchers are doing this? Start enforcing a pitch clock and the game would improve.

Good story on the how things have slowed down and the impact https://www.royalsreview.com/2021/1/21/22234171/the-pitch-clock-is-the-silver-bullet-for-some-of-mlbs-self-described-problems

[wntrtxn21]

How about limiting number of pitchers on the 26/40 man rosters? What are two biggest complaints right now? Length of game and 3TO offense.

 

Reduce the number of pitchers, and you won't have 10 pitching changes every game. You'll also force pitchers to go longer than you'd like, increasing scoring.

 

I really think that, and skrinking the strike zone a bit would really help.

 

Pitching changes are NOT the problem. It’s time between pitches. It’s been shown conclusively, there’s no debate. 5 minutes faster game for every 1 second you cut between pitches.

 

Either I am incorrectly reading what you are trying to say, or you have misquoted something. Are you trying to say if pitchers eliminated one second every pitch the game would be a total of 5 minutes faster? Instead of taking 3:07 it would take 3:02?

[SomewhereInTime]

How about limiting number of pitchers on the 26/40 man rosters? What are two biggest complaints right now? Length of game and 3TO offense.

 

Reduce the number of pitchers, and you won't have 10 pitching changes every game. You'll also force pitchers to go longer than you'd like, increasing scoring.

 

I really think that, and skrinking the strike zone a bit would really help.

 

Pitching changes are NOT the problem. It’s time between pitches. It’s been shown conclusively, there’s no debate. 5 minutes faster game for every 1 second you cut between pitches.

 

100% this. It's why Suter is my favorite pitcher on the team, by no means is he particularly good, but he is great to watch.

[FVBrewerFan]

How about limiting number of pitchers on the 26/40 man rosters? What are two biggest complaints right now? Length of game and 3TO offense.

 

Reduce the number of pitchers, and you won't have 10 pitching changes every game. You'll also force pitchers to go longer than you'd like, increasing scoring.

 

I really think that, and skrinking the strike zone a bit would really help.

 

Pitching changes are NOT the problem. It’s time between pitches. It’s been shown conclusively, there’s no debate. 5 minutes faster game for every 1 second you cut between pitches.

 

I wouldn't mind a clock if it's a reasonable amount of time, but it doesn't affect the other problem- lousy offense. Plus, pitching changes do take 5 minutes or so. Eliminate 4 of them and you gain 20 minutes.

[MrTPlush]

The umpires are also now worse at calling balls and strikes. The number of bad calls in the strike zone being called balls and pitches completely out of the strike zone being called strikes is alarming. The robot umps at least for calling balls and strikes needs to come immediately and I don't care if the umpires strike over this they can leave if they don't want this.

 

There is no way that is true. What we have now is technology that analyzes every pitch so you can clearly see if a ball is an inch outside or not. I can assure you if you watch an old game from 20+ years ago you will see balls 6 inches or more off the plate called strikes but you didn't have strikezone box over homeplate on the telecast so you just kind of eyeballed it and said it is what it is.

 

Yah, literally anything wrong and people want to throw the ump in prison for the rest of their life. I think people forget almost all of these wrong calls are a matter of an inch or two...sometimes even less. It isn't rare for fans to be up in arms on a 'ball' call that the telecast has to blow up the strike zone to full screen and see if there is one pixel between the zone and ball.

 

If you took that box away I bet fans at home would be wrong way more than any ump is by a wide margin. I don't think the umps are that bad, but I do think there is a problem when these umpires are impossible to punish or fire. Some of them are pretty bad. MLB even knows it, but can't do anything. If MLB was filled with guys actually rewarded to be there based on performance I don't think it is that bad of an issue.

[nate82]

 

Yah, literally anything wrong and people want to throw the ump in prison for the rest of their life. I think people forget almost all of these wrong calls are a matter of an inch or two...sometimes even less. It isn't rare for fans to be up in arms on a 'ball' call that the telecast has to blow up the strike zone to full screen and see if there is one pixel between the zone and ball.

 

 

Except that isn't the issue at all. The umpires have been missing clear balls and strikes. They have been really bad this season as these are not pitches that are just missing by a little bit and are borderline balls or strikes. The pitches that they are missing are completely out of the strike zone or completely in it.

 

These pitches are completely missing the strike zone by more than one or two inches. It is clear they are balls or strikes you don't even need to zoom in to see this.

 

Putting in robot umps to call balls and strikes will benefit the hitters as it will be a far more clearer strike zone for the batter. They won't have to guess if the umpire is going to give a pitcher three to four inches out of the zone. This will also benefit pitchers where the catcher gets crossed up and the pitch is still a strike but the catcher caught it outside of where they set up.

 

Also batters get fooled by pitches and think they are strikes and swing the same happens to umpires they get fooled by a pitch and incorrectly call it a ball or a strike.

 

I am not sure why anyone is against this. It helps clean up the game and makes it more balanced but I guess everyone loves the human error experience.

[DuWayne Steurer]

To be fair, this year across all of MLB the average is 3.35 relief appearances per team per game, so I don't know how much of a problem pitching changes really are. We have to assume that at least some of them are in between inning pitching changes as well.

 

Throwing out last year, going back to 2019, it was 3.41 relief appearances per game, so the 3 batter minimum rule is doing what it's supposed to do, albeit at a very minimal rate.

 

I think a pitch clock and enforcing batters to stay in the batters box and not go through the elaborate in between pitch rituals would be the biggest time cutter.

[MrTPlush]

Putting in robot umps to call balls and strikes will benefit the hitters as it will be a far more clearer strike zone for the batter. They won't have to guess if the umpire is going to give a pitcher three to four inches out of the zone. This will also benefit pitchers where the catcher gets crossed up and the pitch is still a strike but the catcher caught it outside of where they set up.

 

So pitchers and batters both benefit....so it cancels out and no one really benefits? Honestly I am not sure it really would change much outside of fans not having it to complain about anymore and batters not throwing temper tantrums. You would have a bit of a problem making a truly accurate strike zone that could effectively change for each batter. It it ends up off, even marginally, it isn't much better than humans doing it now.

 

People always assume the little box on the screen is accurate...but is it really? Over the plate would be fairly easy, but top and bottom of the zone wouldn't be. I am guessing such system would not be accurate, but everyone would think it is just because a robot is doing it and the box would be perceived as accurate.

[JosephC]

There is another article on The Athletic, written by Ken Rosenthal and Brittany Ghiroli, that describes how foreign substance use by pitchers is rampant in the game, more widespread than ever...and MLB isn't doing anything about it.

 

https://theathletic.com/2603443/2021/05/21/what-are-we-even-doing-here-around-baseball-players-raise-concerns-about-pitchers-use-of-foreign-substances/

 

Some bits and pieces-

 

“Everyone has swing-and-miss stuff from top to bottom, and it’s not because everyone got so much better in the last three years,” Phillies catcher J.T. Realmuto told reporters on Wednesday. “To be honest, that stuff helps a lot.

 

“It is getting out of hand,” said an American League pitcher, who spoke on condition of anonymity. “When you watch some of these guys from the dugout you can almost hear the ball ripping out of their hands. Guys are doing stuff now that you can’t do to a baseball with just your hand. You just can’t.”

 

“Most players, if you go into a clubhouse and you see a pitcher putting stuff on his glove, the hitters give him a hard time but that’s it,” another AL pitcher said. “They don’t like it but they won’t stop it. They know everyone is doing it and they want to win. What good is only stopping your guy from cheating? Makes no sense.”

 

The current enforcement is minimal, in part because umpires generally act only when prompted by managers, and managers hesitate to single out opposing pitchers when pitchers on their own staff also might be breaking the rules. The league says that before fundamentally changing the system, it needs more time to collect data from its increased monitoring and inspection efforts as well as the spin-rate analysis outlined in a March 23 memo to clubs. Those efforts might not produce tangible results until 2022, though discipline this season is possible.

[MrTPlush]

Here is John Means cheating. I have seen a lot of guys do it....but wow, this has to be the stickiest substance I have ever seen.

 

 

As I said in another thread MLB said they were going to crack down on it. Guys watching in the dugout and not only during games, but reviewing footage after the fact to catch guys. They would then punish them. However, you can't tell me they are actually doing it. Means is horrible at hiding it and religiously does it (where some pitchers will only do it based on weather). Gerritt Cole is another guy who does it a lot. I really don't get why MLB continues to turn a blind eye to it. If Joe Blow at home can see this stuff I think even the blind MLB officials in New York can...of course with replay maybe they can't.

[SomewhereInTime]

 

Yah, literally anything wrong and people want to throw the ump in prison for the rest of their life. I think people forget almost all of these wrong calls are a matter of an inch or two...sometimes even less. It isn't rare for fans to be up in arms on a 'ball' call that the telecast has to blow up the strike zone to full screen and see if there is one pixel between the zone and ball.

 

 

Except that isn't the issue at all. The umpires have been missing clear balls and strikes. They have been really bad this season as these are not pitches that are just missing by a little bit and are borderline balls or strikes. The pitches that they are missing are completely out of the strike zone or completely in it.

 

These pitches are completely missing the strike zone by more than one or two inches. It is clear they are balls or strikes you don't even need to zoom in to see this.

 

Putting in robot umps to call balls and strikes will benefit the hitters as it will be a far more clearer strike zone for the batter. They won't have to guess if the umpire is going to give a pitcher three to four inches out of the zone. This will also benefit pitchers where the catcher gets crossed up and the pitch is still a strike but the catcher caught it outside of where they set up.

 

Also batters get fooled by pitches and think they are strikes and swing the same happens to umpires they get fooled by a pitch and incorrectly call it a ball or a strike.

 

I am not sure why anyone is against this. It helps clean up the game and makes it more balanced but I guess everyone loves the human error experience.

 

It's all in your head. It's your ability to analyze and share online every pitch that makes you think they're getting worse when in reality they're better than they've ever been. The only gripe I have is with the way replay is handled. You don't get very much consistency with how calls are handled and how obvious the call needs to be. Most replays seem to be at 2nd base and they come down to when the tag was applied or if a runner lost contact with the base for a fraction of a second or something. The game was fine when you just went with a judgement call from the guy standing a foot away.

 

Really only should use replay for fair/foul, homerun/not homerun, lineups/procedural, catch/no catch, and maybe force plays. Basically, the things that replay can clearly see.

[Fear The Chorizo]

There is another article on The Athletic, written by Ken Rosenthal and Brittany Ghiroli, that describes how foreign substance use by pitchers is rampant in the game, more widespread than ever...and MLB isn't doing anything about it.

 

https://theathletic.com/2603443/2021/05/21/what-are-we-even-doing-here-around-baseball-players-raise-concerns-about-pitchers-use-of-foreign-substances/

 

Some bits and pieces-

 

“Everyone has swing-and-miss stuff from top to bottom, and it’s not because everyone got so much better in the last three years,” Phillies catcher J.T. Realmuto told reporters on Wednesday. “To be honest, that stuff helps a lot.

 

“It is getting out of hand,” said an American League pitcher, who spoke on condition of anonymity. “When you watch some of these guys from the dugout you can almost hear the ball ripping out of their hands. Guys are doing stuff now that you can’t do to a baseball with just your hand. You just can’t.”

 

“Most players, if you go into a clubhouse and you see a pitcher putting stuff on his glove, the hitters give him a hard time but that’s it,” another AL pitcher said. “They don’t like it but they won’t stop it. They know everyone is doing it and they want to win. What good is only stopping your guy from cheating? Makes no sense.”

 

The current enforcement is minimal, in part because umpires generally act only when prompted by managers, and managers hesitate to single out opposing pitchers when pitchers on their own staff also might be breaking the rules. The league says that before fundamentally changing the system, it needs more time to collect data from its increased monitoring and inspection efforts as well as the spin-rate analysis outlined in a March 23 memo to clubs. Those efforts might not produce tangible results until 2022, though discipline this season is possible.

 

This is something that could easily be dealt with by MLB if they actually wanted to (and I think they should).

 

They already have control of game balls being put into play. Next step is to have the same person/official in charge of game balls being in charge of pitchers' game mitts - they can be inspected at the start of each game and given/taken from the pitcher whenever he heads toward the mound or comes off the field between innings. Gloves are by far the easiest spot for pitchers to conceal a foreign substance within - if they want to try and put it somewhere on/in their uniform or cap that's something I'm willing to rely on opposing dugouts/umpires to try and police.

 

It's pretty simple - being able to grip the baseball better than a pitcher normally can without a foreign substance allows for them to throw with max effort and maintain better than expected command of those pitches. Eliminating foreign substances will initially lead to a huge spike in BBs, then forcing pitchers to dial back effort/velo a bit to get back in the zone and, what do you know, reaction times for hitters are back to where they've typically been and hitting numbers improve.

 

The excuse of allowing foreign substances for hitters' safety to make sure a pitcher can grip the ball falls really flat, especially now that we are out of late winter/early spring game temps - I'd be willing to make an exception of adding a pine tar rag or something on the mound if the game conditions warrant for player safety (i.e., game temp below 40, rainy, or something like that) - but it should be like a rosin bag that's universal for both teams.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think part of the testing problem is showing a particular pitcher used a particular substance. For example how do you test for thing like pine tar when pine tar is used on bats by virtually everybody? A baseball hits the pat where the pine tar is on it, gets some on it then the pitcher gets suspended for using pine tar makes no sense. Ditto for gloves. Even if there was a substance on the ball that wasn't commonly used on bats how do you know who used it when the same ball might be used by multiple pitchers. Sometimes by pitchers from both teams.

I think it's best to gather information this year to see what level of substances are on balls throughout baseball. Gather data for every team- maybe even individual players, to see if some have a significantly increased amount from the norm over a period of time. Crunch t he data in the offseason and go from there.

[Sixtofan]

I would think it is fairly unusual for more than one pitcher to use the same ball - maybe when they change pitchers it happens? In any event, this would be easy enough for the umpires to put a new ball in play whenever a new pitcher enters the game. Edited May 24, 2021 by Sixtofan

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't think when a pitcher strikes out the last batter in an inning they throw out the ball. In any event unless only one person touches the ball it's hard to pin any one ball on any one person intentionally doctoring the ball. You can test over a period of time to see if individuals have a higher rate of (for lack of a better word) illegal balls. People who have an abnormally high rate could then be subjected to further game day testing. Kind of like they do with PEDs now.

[nate82]

For the substances some are approved by MLB as there has always been this unwritten rule that pitchers can use some substances to be able to grip the ball better. This is good for the batter in terms of the pitcher is able to accurately throw the pitch you don't really want a pitcher who could possibly hit you in the head at some point as they are not able to control where they are throwing the pitch. The one rule that the pitcher has to follow is to not doctor the ball or change the ball in any way and I believe pine tar is also banned as a substance for pitchers. Pitchers are allowed to get more moisture on their hands but are supposed to wipe it down which is why in the past you would see pitchers lick their fingers and then touch their jersey. The rosin bag on the mound is also a substance that allows the pitcher to get more control of the ball.

 

I think MLB just needs to define what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Mixing rosin and sunscreen which is probably the most effective of all of the ones out there should probably be banned as it is giving pitchers an unfair advantage in the spin rate on the ball along with better accuracy. If it was just better accuracy I don't believe there would be as much of an uproar over it.

[Underachiever]

I think part of the testing problem is showing a particular pitcher used a particular substance. For example how do you test for thing like pine tar when pine tar is used on bats by virtually everybody? A baseball hits the pat where the pine tar is on it, gets some on it then the pitcher gets suspended for using pine tar makes no sense. Ditto for gloves. Even if there was a substance on the ball that wasn't commonly used on bats how do you know who used it when the same ball might be used by multiple pitchers. Sometimes by pitchers from both teams.

I'm going to guess that a pine tar mark from a bat is significantly different than a mark from a finger, or fingers. I don't know who will blink first in this, because I believe that every team's pitchers are using the substances. But it is really the best and easiest fix to the game. Better than moving the mound. Take a couple hundred RPM and 2-3 MPH off of a pitch, hitters might have a chance.

[Thurston Fluff]

Pine tar is banned for the ball but not the handles. Thus when a ball hits the bat handle it gets pine tar on it. If you then test the ball you find pine tar on it but not because the pitcher was trying to get an unfair advantage. If you test all the balls over a year and certain pitchers have an abnormally high pine tar rate it indicates something other than accidental touching. While I wouldn't be comfortable suspending or fining any single pitcher for any single ball I would be ok with adding more oversight to pitchers who've had higher rates of substances on balls.