MLB has an issue regarding pitching dominance

[dlk9s]

To the lack of bunting issue, yes, most of it is likely because of analytics, don't want to give up an out, etc., but with every pitcher throwing 95+ MPH, it's A LOT harder to bunt than it used to be.

[patrickgpe]

before MLB changed the ball, strikeouts were already had an increased rate, this only made it larger. I agree hitting is garbage, therefore to change the ball has now really made the issue more substantial. Its on the hitters to get the ball into play. Maybe its simply the hitters need to change their strategy at the plate, i Just know most baseball games are much harder to watch as opposed to a few seasons ago. Also Brewers have 3 starters that are striking out batters and an great rate, nobody knows how legit it is since its going on league-wide. You can't compare Burnes numbers to say Ben Sheets, because of how different the game is now.

[patrickgpe]

It's actually their other pitches. When guys are throwing cutters at 96 MPH, sliders at 95 MPH, and wiffle ball changeups at 91 MPH, hitters have no chance.

 

this is a big reason, i will give you. I wonder if the changes to the ball are giving pitchers so dominant secondary pitches.

[jerichoholicninja]

Is there any batted ball data on how many hits shifting is taking away? I've seen that batting average and BABIP are continually getting lower but what about where the balls are actually being hit. I will never be in favor of banning shifts but I'd be curious to see that data.

[patrickgpe]

 

this is a little old (2019) but it does indicate that the hitters have done a decent job of adjusting for the shift. While shift use has dramatically increased, BA has plateaued

[owbc]

I know people bring up how bad offense and hitting is in baseball right now but at 4.36 runs per game across the league, that is higher than every year but one in the '80's and all but two in the '70's. All the great contact hitting and bunting in those eras doesn't equal runs. The goal is to score runs within the rules of the game, not put the ball in play at all costs and sacrifice.

 

This doesn't mean it's all or nothing, I think the best offense will have a mix of power hitters and contact hitters. I think a lot of us just have our judgment clouded in that we watch a bottom 5 offense every night that can't really put the ball in play or hit for power.

 

Yes yes yes. The current offensive strategies WORK. That’s what people don’t understand. Is it garbage to watch? Yes. But it works. Imagine how bad it would be if guys were trying to bunt these 92 mph breaking pitches.

 

Sorry, but you can’t magically increase the reaction time of hitters. Blaming it on the hitters makes no sense. They are doing exactly what they should be doing.

 

Moving back the mound by 1 ft works because it increases the reaction time enough to reduce the perceived pitch speed by 1.5 mph or so. Which is equivalent to how much velocity has increased in the past 20 years. Plus, longer distance means breaking pitches are more likely to break out of the zone. It’s the best idea by far to tilt things back toward hitters a bit.

 

Every other sport has figured this out already and tinkers the rules every year. There didn’t have to be major changes, we could have moved the mound back by one inch every year. But now we’re so far behind the curve that drastic adjustments need to be made, and it can’t be garbage like changing the baseball without telling anyone and then lying about it. Set up a process and get owners and players (and the media+fans) to buy in. How about putting someone like Jomboy on the rules committee as well?

[Thurston Fluff]

Keep in mind the way we measure pitch velocity today is different than it was a few years ago. Those 90 MPH+ off speed pitches are not really all that different than they used to be. It's just recorded differently. https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/the-measure-of-a-fastball-has-changed-over-the-years/#:~:text=For%20decades%2C%20comparing%20pitch%20velocities,much%20closer%20to%20the%20plate.

I think the lack of offense is a combination of things so there is no single answer to how to fix it. One thing I think factors in is teams started looking for specific types of hitters and trained them to hit a specific way. That makes it much easier to figure out than when there are multiple types of approaches to hitting. The other is there just happen to be more good pitchers vs good hitters right now. That sort of thing is cyclical and there really is little that could, or should, be done about it.

[endaround]

I know people bring up how bad offense and hitting is in baseball right now but at 4.36 runs per game across the league, that is higher than every year but one in the '80's and all but two in the '70's. All the great contact hitting and bunting in those eras doesn't equal runs. The goal is to score runs within the rules of the game, not put the ball in play at all costs and sacrifice.

 

This doesn't mean it's all or nothing, I think the best offense will have a mix of power hitters and contact hitters. I think a lot of us just have our judgment clouded in that we watch a bottom 5 offense every night that can't really put the ball in play or hit for power.

 

Yes yes yes. The current offensive strategies WORK. That’s what people don’t understand. Is it garbage to watch? Yes. But it works. Imagine how bad it would be if guys were trying to bunt these 92 mph breaking pitches.

 

Sorry, but you can’t magically increase the reaction time of hitters. Blaming it on the hitters makes no sense. They are doing exactly what they should be doing.

 

Moving back the mound by 1 ft works because it increases the reaction time enough to reduce the perceived pitch speed by 1.5 mph or so. Which is equivalent to how much velocity has increased in the past 20 years. Plus, longer distance means breaking pitches are more likely to break out of the zone. It’s the best idea by far to tilt things back toward hitters a bit.

 

Every other sport has figured this out already and tinkers the rules every year. There didn’t have to be major changes, we could have moved the mound back by one inch every year. But now we’re so far behind the curve that drastic adjustments need to be made, and it can’t be garbage like changing the baseball without telling anyone and then lying about it. Set up a process and get owners and players (and the media+fans) to buy in. How about putting someone like Jomboy on the rules committee as well?

 

Yep. The hitters have adjusted. The launch angle was the adjustment. A flatter swing won't get more hits, just more mid-outfield pop ups with the same number of Ks.

 

Pitching has changed. Spin rate changed things. Off-speed pitches are significantly faster and are used much more often. Fastballs may now be less than half of all pitches thrown. Lowering the mound or moving the mound back is will impact this. little else will. I mean my idea of not having caught foul balls be outs would help (and prevent some of the worst baseball injuries I've seen) though not sure how much, but the pitching is dominant and hitters are doing the best they can.

[Thurston Fluff]

 

Yep. The hitters have adjusted. The launch angle was the adjustment. A flatter swing won't get more hits, just more mid-outfield pop ups with the same number of Ks.

 

Pitching has changed. Spin rate changed things. Off-speed pitches are significantly faster and are used much more often. Fastballs may now be less than half of all pitches thrown. Lowering the mound or moving the mound back is will impact this. little else will. I mean my idea of not having caught foul balls be outs would help (and prevent some of the worst baseball injuries I've seen) though not sure how much, but the pitching is dominant and hitters are doing the best they can.

 

Great. In ten years when the pendulum swings the other way and nobody can get anyone out we'll move the mound forward again. Or else we just let this cycle of better pitching pass and not have to make major changes to the game every decade or so.

[SomewhereInTime]

I know people bring up how bad offense and hitting is in baseball right now but at 4.36 runs per game across the league, that is higher than every year but one in the '80's and all but two in the '70's. All the great contact hitting and bunting in those eras doesn't equal runs. The goal is to score runs within the rules of the game, not put the ball in play at all costs and sacrifice.

 

This doesn't mean it's all or nothing, I think the best offense will have a mix of power hitters and contact hitters. I think a lot of us just have our judgment clouded in that we watch a bottom 5 offense every night that can't really put the ball in play or hit for power.

 

Yes yes yes. The current offensive strategies WORK. That’s what people don’t understand. Is it garbage to watch? Yes. But it works. Imagine how bad it would be if guys were trying to bunt these 92 mph breaking pitches.

 

Sorry, but you can’t magically increase the reaction time of hitters. Blaming it on the hitters makes no sense. They are doing exactly what they should be doing.

 

Moving back the mound by 1 ft works because it increases the reaction time enough to reduce the perceived pitch speed by 1.5 mph or so. Which is equivalent to how much velocity has increased in the past 20 years. Plus, longer distance means breaking pitches are more likely to break out of the zone. It’s the best idea by far to tilt things back toward hitters a bit.

 

Every other sport has figured this out already and tinkers the rules every year. There didn’t have to be major changes, we could have moved the mound back by one inch every year. But now we’re so far behind the curve that drastic adjustments need to be made, and it can’t be garbage like changing the baseball without telling anyone and then lying about it. Set up a process and get owners and players (and the media+fans) to buy in. How about putting someone like Jomboy on the rules committee as well?

 

I think this could really lead to an absolute explosion of runs and definitely longer games. I'm not really against that though. Right now there is no doubt that baseball is a worse sport to watch than it was even 10 to 15 years ago.

[Hopper]

Keep in mind the way we measure pitch velocity today is different than it was a few years ago. Those 90 MPH+ off speed pitches are not really all that different than they used to be. It's just recorded differently. https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/the-measure-of-a-fastball-has-changed-over-the-years/#:~:text=For%20decades%2C%20comparing%20pitch%20velocities,much%20closer%20to%20the%20plate.

I think the lack of offense is a combination of things so there is no single answer to how to fix it. One thing I think factors in is teams started looking for specific types of hitters and trained them to hit a specific way. That makes it much easier to figure out than when there are multiple types of approaches to hitting. The other is there just happen to be more good pitchers vs good hitters right now. That sort of thing is cyclical and there really is little that could, or should, be done about it.

 

Interesting.

Why does no one take this into account?

[endaround]

 

Yep. The hitters have adjusted. The launch angle was the adjustment. A flatter swing won't get more hits, just more mid-outfield pop ups with the same number of Ks.

 

Pitching has changed. Spin rate changed things. Off-speed pitches are significantly faster and are used much more often. Fastballs may now be less than half of all pitches thrown. Lowering the mound or moving the mound back is will impact this. little else will. I mean my idea of not having caught foul balls be outs would help (and prevent some of the worst baseball injuries I've seen) though not sure how much, but the pitching is dominant and hitters are doing the best they can.

 

Great. In ten years when the pendulum swings the other way and nobody can get anyone out we'll move the mound forward again. Or else we just let this cycle of better pitching pass and not have to make major changes to the game every decade or so.

 

They do make changes, so moving the mound forward in the future would not be the end of the world. MLB expended the strike zone when they thought offenses were too strong. MLB played around with the ball. They put in a 3 batter minimum.

 

Offences are going to get even worse as more teams adopt the third time through the order penalty in their decision making.

[owbc]

Why would hitters somehow get better in 5 or 10 years from now? All indications are that if nothing is done the strikeout rate will continue to increase. It’s nowhere near a plateau. Nobody knows how high it could get. 30%? 40%? 50%? Do we want to wait 10 years to find out?

 

Pace of play...that’s entirely related to time between pitches. Increasing/decreasing offense has nothing to do with pace of play.

[rickh150]

The title of this reminded me of Game 162 (2018).

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The solution is clearly to start every inning with a guy on 2nd base.

[yourout]

Does anyone know what the percentage of major league at bats that reach a three ball count?

I personally like the idea of moving the mound back a foot and changing and at bat to three balls or three strikes and force the pitcher to not nibble.

[LouisEly]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/trevor-bauer-mlb-pitchers-steroids-pine-tar/2qhjxr7i4yrq1t15yl99ysvp2

 

I think addressing and enforcing this is the obvious first step.

[xisxisxis]

I know that MLB has an issue and for me it's completely unwatchable baseball. Sure I enjoy a good pitching matchup, but we've had about 4 really crappy pitchers throw no-hitters this year and so many crappy pitchers look like Cy Young. That's not a good pitching matchup that's ugly baseball.

 

If the game length is any indication of how MLB goes about fixing problems then heaven help us. There is a lot of data that the biggest contributor to game length is much longer times between pitches now than historically. What has MLB done? NOTHING at all, except make STUPID changes about the smaller contributors. And failed at that.

 

Football is the best comparison to baseball for having distinct offense and defensive players and a series of attempts (downs in Football and outs in Baseball) to score. It's been ages since the NFL instituted a play clock, yet baseball continues to bore the crap out of it's fan base by letting all this crap go on. Is it really interesting to watch Ryan Braun go through his ritual EVERY pitch? Yeah, does the slowest paced major sport need to have even less action? Only if you want your fan base to shrink even smaller.

[Simba2020]

I'm not sure how far they have even considered lowering the mound, but the last time they did it for the 1969 season, it was a full five inches. I have no idea, but I suspect it didn't take long for pitchers to adjust and I also doubt injuries were the result. That being said, I'm not really in favor of it but I don't think it would be a big deal for pitchers. Moving the mound back might be different and I'm definitely not for that.

 

At one time I didn't want shifts to be limited. I figured it was on the hitters to adjust. They obviously are unwilling or can't so I'm basically in favor of limiting shifts at this point. Pitchers have gotten too good and hitters need a break.

 

Don't go back to the juiced ball. I think hitters will have to drop the launch angle or at least seriously lessen it with the new ball. That will help batting average along the way as well. They had a way of hitting that got them where they are in the first place, shouldn't be all too hard to go back to what you used to do. At least for most hitters.

 

Definitely in favor of a pitch clock and also limiting the number of throws to first. Perhaps give them a certain number to use all game long. That way if you want to save them for late in the game in a key situation, you'd have that option as opposed to a strict limit per base runner as I think they are employing in one of the minor leagues or independent leagues.

 

Probably should also go back to not calling the high strike. Hitters have no chance against the velocity up in the zone. Particularly with the launch angle. Lower it back to where you had been calling it and pitchers won't be able to just pound the upper part of the current zone and get guys to chase out of the zone.

[DuWayne Steurer]

the (IMO) reality is that MBL has to consider that regardless of everything else considered, whether the runs per game is down, strikeouts are up, batting average is down, whatever, whatever whatever...... baseball is an entertainment product, and it feels like more and more people are using the word "unwatchable".

 

It doesn't matter if the best strategy is to hit .215 and walk a lot and hit homeruns, but still score the same amount of runs. If you've changed the game to the point where an actual measurable percentage of fans are saying "this game sucks and I can't watch it", you (MLB) as the provider of that entertainment, should probably listen to the paying customer base.

 

This season it's going to be hard to get a grasp on ticket sales and tv viewership numbers because of the pandemic, but if this strikeout, hitting, and scoring trend continues, it will be interesting to see if people are turned away from the game in large enough numbers for baseball to actually take measures to alter the product on the field in some meaningful way.

 

Just 3-4-5 years ago I wouldn't have been swayed to want to change rules like moving the mound or outlawing shifts, but at this point, I will agree that the changing aesthetic of the game has made watching baseball boring, un-fun, and yes, somewhat unwatchable.

[TURBO]

Limiting the number of throws to first?

 

So if that limit is reached, the runners on first can get huge leads with no chance of being picked off?

 

I think that is a horrible idea.

[RollieTime]

I agree in that baseball is getting unwatchable. It’s boring to watch the current product. This is the first year that I can remember where I sat and contemplated whether or not I would make some trips to Milwaukee to watch some Brewers games.

 

After seeing how awful and boring the Brewers offense has been, we decided we won’t be making a trip this season. Driving 12 hours over two days, spending hundreds of dollars, just to watch 3 hits and one run score with 25 K’s between the two teams, it’s just not entertaining.

[645]

Getting rid of the shift will just mean a longer game. Shaw will get a hit. But since no batter is changing their approach you'll still see the next two guys strike out. The best way to get rid of the shift is to incentivize hitters to hit against it. It's also really hard to hit the ball where it's pitched when the pitcher throws non-fastballs at 90+. It will be a little easier if you move the mound back and give the hitter more time to identify the pitch and go the other way. I'd jump straight to two feet back.

 

A list of some radical ideas I'd rather see tried then outlawing the shift:

2 strikes and you're out. (batters would be incentivized to swing for contact early in the count)

7 balls to get a walk. (a lot harder to walk so guys aren't "looking" for them)

If you get on base via walk you can't lead off. (removes "a walk is as good as a hit")

Foul ball is always a strike and can cause a strikeout (just like a foul bunt).

Bunting a ball foul with two strikes is no longer an out. (less penalty for trying to bunt)

 

If you like to see a perfect game pitched with all 27 Hitters striking out, That might be a good idea to make it possible.

[MrTPlush]

Getting rid of the shift will just mean a longer game. Shaw will get a hit. But since no batter is changing their approach you'll still see the next two guys strike out. The best way to get rid of the shift is to incentivize hitters to hit against it. It's also really hard to hit the ball where it's pitched when the pitcher throws non-fastballs at 90+. It will be a little easier if you move the mound back and give the hitter more time to identify the pitch and go the other way. I'd jump straight to two feet back.

 

A list of some radical ideas I'd rather see tried then outlawing the shift:

2 strikes and you're out. (batters would be incentivized to swing for contact early in the count)

7 balls to get a walk. (a lot harder to walk so guys aren't "looking" for them)

If you get on base via walk you can't lead off. (removes "a walk is as good as a hit")

Foul ball is always a strike and can cause a strikeout (just like a foul bunt).

Bunting a ball foul with two strikes is no longer an out. (less penalty for trying to bunt)

 

If you like to see a perfect game pitched with all 27 Hitters striking out, That might be a good idea to make it possible.

 

I read his post and was pretty confused since I thought the premise of this thread was lack of offense and just unbearable offense in general to watch. Like you, I thought this was a good way to make offense even worse and even more horrendous to watch. If we were trying to officially kill the game and have zero viewership, those ideas would be fantastic.

 

I am not sure the answer to making baseball better...but I am pretty confident those ideas are not said answer.

[JosephC]

Yeah, let's change more rules. As recent history has shown, rule changes are always geared to create excitement in an attempt to promote the game to younger audiences.

 

My first suggestion would be to fire Rob Manfred.