I think it's time to admit it!

[TURBO]

We have 3 guys who have TOR stuff!

 

I won't name names, I'm all about not creating a jinx, but damn, these guys look for real.

 

We have to grab bats and spend some money in the off season.

 

Wasting these guys in their prime would be a crying shame.

 

BATS!

[Madhawk23]

Can't disagree with you here. As Brewer fans, we've all been waiting our entire lives for a situation like this where we have 2-3 TOR starters. Have to take advantage of this time. It's going to be interesting to see what position we are in to do something this summer, especially considering the fact that our farm system is not real strong right now for trade value.

[Eye Black]

We have 3 guys who have TOR stuff!

Saw this Tweet for the three starting pitchers you’re referring to...

 

Combined stats for [the Brewers “big three”] in 2021:

 

21 starts

 

122.2 IP

28 R, 27 ER

180 strikeouts, 31 walks

 

39% K, .150 BAA, 0.77 WHIP

1.98 ERA, 1.99 FIP

[brewcrewdue80]

We have 3 guys who have TOR stuff!

Saw this Tweet for the three starting pitchers you’re referring to...

 

Combined stats for [the Brewers “big three”] in 2021:

 

21 starts

 

122.2 IP

28 R, 27 ER

180 strikeouts, 31 walks

 

39% K, .150 BAA, 0.77 WHIP

1.98 ERA, 1.99 FIP

 

Outstanding!

[mtrebs]

Yes, if these three continue to pitch as TOR starters and Attanasio doesn’t open the pocketbook for offense this off-season, then he never will. This is our window. Make it count by getting some good offensive production at 1B and 3B.

[TURBO]

Yes, if these three continue to pitch as TOR starters and Attanasio doesn’t open the pocketbook for offense this off-season, then he never will. This is our window. Make it count by getting some good offensive production at 1B and 3B.

 

and OF if we are making a wishlist.

[FVBrewerFan]

$54MM for Yelich and Cain, if Bradley exercises his option that's $64MM. Spending money isn't the problem, they need the same thing in 2022 they need this year. Yelich, and Hiura close to their 2019 numbers, and Cain being productive enough to be an asset. Narvaez and Wong then give you 5 procuctive bats, Urias may be 6.

 

I don't see them spending massive money on another position player, they have to find league avg guys the Brewer way. Go to the next tier and get lucky. Sorry, they're not the Dodgers, they can't just throw $25MM at 6 or 7 guys. They xould get a high quality pre-arby bat, but would have to trade Hader to get him.

 

I know it's frustrating, but "just go get two more expensive bats" isn't an option.

[wildcat2237]

$54MM for Yelich and Cain, if Bradley exercises his option that's $64MM. Spending money isn't the problem, they need the same thing in 2022 they need this year. Yelich, and Hiura close to their 2019 numbers, and Cain being productive enough to be an asset. Narvaez and Wong then give you 5 procuctive bats, Urias may be 6.

 

I don't see them spending massive money on another position player, they have to find league avg guys the Brewer way. Go to the next tier and get lucky. Sorry, they're not the Dodgers, they can't just throw $25MM at 6 or 7 guys. They xould get a high quality pre-arby bat, but would have to trade Hader to get him.

 

I know it's frustrating, but "just go get two more expensive bats" isn't an option.

 

I agree 100%.

 

The Brewers have tons of money tied up in Cain, Yelich, and maybe Bradley.

 

Garcia comes off the books in 2022, but the buyout is $2 million. So really only $8 million off the books. The Brewers can certainly make a move this offseason, but I dont think it will be anything huge unless Bradley opts out.

 

I guess the Brewers could empty the farm in trade as I think Mitchell, Turang, Small, Feliciano have good value. But I personally wouldnt risk the future.

 

Bottom Line: The Brewers need Yelich to return to at least above average production. Dont need him to be the MVP, but he cant be injured or below average.

[RollieTime]

The big 3 at the top of this rotation are sensational. I think they should approach Woodruff with a contract offer this offseason and see if they can strike a little bit of a deal locking him up 3 years prior to free agency.

 

 

I agree 100%.

 

The Brewers have tons of money tied up in Cain, Yelich, and maybe Bradley.

 

Garcia comes off the books in 2022, but the buyout is $2 million. So really only $8 million off the books. The Brewers can certainly make a move this offseason, but I dont think it will be anything huge unless Bradley opts out.

 

I guess the Brewers could empty the farm in trade as I think Mitchell, Turang, Small, Feliciano have good value. But I personally wouldnt risk the future.

 

Bottom Line: The Brewers need Yelich to return to at least above average production. Dont need him to be the MVP, but he cant be injured or below average.

 

One thing to remember is that Yelich’s contract next season goes from $14 million up to $26 million. That’s going to put a big hamper on the money we have available to spend next offseason. If Bradley opts in, it will most likely be a very bland offseason for signings. A trade would be the most likely avenue to upgrade the roster.

[Oxy]

We are a healthy Yelich, a "right" Hiura, Trevor Story and Ryan Braun away from a World Series?

[MrTPlush]

Should be interesting to see how people think the Brewers should approach the deadline. Yelich back, plus Aguilar, plus Story would be interesting.

[Hopper]

Story will cost the farm.

Though it would be a great couple of months, it would cripple our future.

No thanks.

[MrTPlush]

Story will cost the farm.

Though it would be a great couple of months, it would cripple our future.

No thanks.

 

$18.5mil Trevor Story isn't going to cost the farm for 2-3 months. Especially when he isn't even hitting for an OPS over .800 right now. He isn't a cheap rental by any means...but rentals don't garner what they once did.

[pacopete4]

He'd probably cost more than I would like to see given up. There is a chance Story gets hot and helps carry you into the playoffs with Yelich but there is also a chance he is just a solid SS and you give up pieces you may regret moving towards the future. I'd rather focus on lower-end guys that might have more of an impact for less. Aguilar could be that guy.

[MrTPlush]

He'd probably cost more than I would like to see given up. There is a chance Story gets hot and helps carry you into the playoffs with Yelich but there is also a chance he is just a solid SS and you give up pieces you may regret moving towards the future. I'd rather focus on lower-end guys that might have more of an impact for less. Aguilar could be that guy.

 

While entirely true, on the flip side you may look back in retrospect and see some of the best Brewers teams to have a chance to win it all sputter in the wild card game or opening series because we never wanted to take a chance giving up good players in a trade.

 

Not saying you are wrong. Personally, I am probably not much of a player for Trevor Story if it costed the near $30mil in surplus value the baseball trade value site gives him. Though, I don't think it would be that high. I am sure that value was determined before the season. 2-3 months of Story may be closer to half that. Probably looking at Lutz or Ashby as the type of headliner with a complementing piece or two.

 

Hard to even guess trade values on rentals players though. Story isn't an elite bat generally speaking (he is really good for his position, historically) so it may suppress his value if teams aren't tripping over themselves for a .800 OPS bat.

[sixtolezcano16]

Exactly, why wait until this off-season. Waiting is not an option. We need to to find out what is available in trade TODAY!!!. With the probability of injuries or an off year waiting any amount of time could be disastrous. You have to hit while the iron is hot and the opportunity is great. We've all seen that our offence is historically bad after 25% of the season gone by and waiting for any of these players to get hot seems overly hopeful. Sure, Lutz, Ashby, Hiura, Mitchell, Turang, Small and Feliciano have promise, however remember the Yelich trade and how those prospects have turned out. What is the probability that any of these guys turn into stars much less starters? With the Rockies, Twins, Rangers and Diamondbacks struggling good players...starters are to be had. Kepler, Sano, Story, Cron, Culberson, Gallo, for example could be had if the price is right.

[Jopal78]

$54MM for Yelich and Cain, if Bradley exercises his option that's $64MM. Spending money isn't the problem, they need the same thing in 2022 they need this year.... Cain being productive enough to be an asset.

 

It’s not a question of production. When he’s healthy Cain produces. Even this year he has quietly snuck up to a slash line of

.222/.338/.395. for an OPS of .734

 

Even with his batting average 65 points below his career mark, his OBP is only ten points below his career mark. His slugging percentage is 13 points below his career mark. I think it’s safe to say he’s going to hit better than .226, so he should therefore eclipse his career averages for OBP and SLG% if he’s healthy and in the lineup.

[roadcrew3]

The big 3 at the top of this rotation are sensational. I think they should approach Woodruff with a contract offer this offseason and see if they can strike a little bit of a deal locking him up 3 years prior to free agency.

 

One thing to remember is that Yelich’s contract next season goes from $14 million up to $26 million. That’s going to put a big hamper on the money we have available to spend next offseason. If Bradley opts in, it will most likely be a very bland offseason for signings. A trade would be the most likely avenue to upgrade the roster.

 

I'm not sure I am following this...Yelich's contract will hamper the team's ability to spend, but we also should look at signing one of our stud pitchers to a long term deal 3 years before he reaches free agency? Sure, if Woodruff is willing to sign a Peralta type of deal then absolutely...probably wishful thinking though considering his age and the likelihood that this will be his only contract to really cash in.

 

It leads to an interesting discussion as a fan, what are your goals for the team? Personally, I am willing to accept a couple 60-65 win seasons, if between those, we have 3-4 year stretches of being a top 5 team in baseball and have a legitimate shot to win the WS. Not a sneak in the playoffs like we did last season, but a true top team in baseball and amongst the handful of teams that is favored to win the title. This strategy probably doesn't align with extending players long-term because the risk of the player declining in performance or having a significant injury would create too big of a burden to overcome for a market like ours. Additionally, trading your top players is the unfortunate part of the process that is necessary to reload for the next cycle.

 

On the other hand, I also understand the fans who would rather be competitive every year and have a shot to make the playoffs, like last year, even if the team doesn't have a real shot at winning it all. Long-term contract extensions are probably more feasible within these expectations.

[Warning Track Power]

$54MM for Yelich and Cain, if Bradley exercises his option that's $64MM. Spending money isn't the problem, they need the same thing in 2022 they need this year.... Cain being productive enough to be an asset.

 

It’s not a question of production. When he’s healthy Cain produces. Even this year he has quietly snuck up to a slash line of

.222/.338/.395. for an OPS of .734

 

Even with his batting average 65 points below his career mark, his OBP is only ten points below his career mark. His slugging percentage is 13 points below his career mark. I think it’s safe to say he’s going to hit better than .226, so he should therefore eclipse his career averages for OBP and SLG% if he’s healthy and in the lineup.

Watching Cain in the early part of the homestand versus the Cardinals, versus the latter part of the homestand versus the Braves, it appears Cain has adjusted his swing plane. Watching the Cardinals series, it appeared Cain was uppercutting everything. His approach was much more Lorenzo Cain in the Braves series. Not simply the results, but the swings themselves. If you have MLB Extra Innings, watch the approach and tell me if you see the same thing I saw.

[RollieTime]

The big 3 at the top of this rotation are sensational. I think they should approach Woodruff with a contract offer this offseason and see if they can strike a little bit of a deal locking him up 3 years prior to free agency.

 

One thing to remember is that Yelich’s contract next season goes from $14 million up to $26 million. That’s going to put a big hamper on the money we have available to spend next offseason. If Bradley opts in, it will most likely be a very bland offseason for signings. A trade would be the most likely avenue to upgrade the roster.

 

I'm not sure I am following this...Yelich's contract will hamper the team's ability to spend, but we also should look at signing one of our stud pitchers to a long term deal 3 years before he reaches free agency? Sure, if Woodruff is willing to sign a Peralta type of deal then absolutely...probably wishful thinking though considering his age and the likelihood that this will be his only contract to really cash in.

 

It leads to an interesting discussion as a fan, what are your goals for the team? Personally, I am willing to accept a couple 60-65 win seasons, if between those, we have 3-4 year stretches of being a top 5 team in baseball and have a legitimate shot to win the WS. Not a sneak in the playoffs like we did last season, but a true top team in baseball and amongst the handful of teams that is favored to win the title. This strategy probably doesn't align with extending players long-term because the risk of the player declining in performance or having a significant injury would create too big of a burden to overcome for a market like ours. Additionally, trading your top players is the unfortunate part of the process that is necessary to reload for the next cycle.

 

On the other hand, I also understand the fans who would rather be competitive every year and have a shot to make the playoffs, like last year, even if the team doesn't have a real shot at winning it all. Long-term contract extensions are probably more feasible within these expectations.

 

The point I was making is that Garcia’s contract coming off the books is basically replaced with Yelich’s significant bump in pay. And the other big hurdle in the way of doing anything significant this offseason if Bradley opts in and gets $9.5 million. The contract structure is awful in that if he opts in for next season, he will get that money plus an $8(!) million buyout prior to the 2023 season. I understand it to a point because of Covid, but that is a bad use of resources when that day comes and we are stuck eating that cost while trying to be competitive.

 

The extension to Woodruff wouldn’t need to be a big salary increase right away. We are kind of in a payroll crunch with Yelich getting his $12 million bump, Cain and his final year at $18 million, and Bradley Jr. absolutely opting in at this rate.

 

To your point about rebuilding, I was 100% pushing for a one year rebuild last season during Covid. Basically because it was only a 60 game season and even if we somehow won the World Series, it isn’t exactly the same as a full season grind and winning it all. I thought that was the time to see a step back during a season with no fans and quite frankly many regular fans probably didn’t care much about. Also, I was hoping for a trade of Hader for some young pieces and possibly looking at moving other guys not named Woodruff or Burnes. Then for 2021, we would have had more money to spend instead of competing in 2020, while having more money in free agency to use if Hader plus whoever else was moved.

 

I actually think Stearns is stuck in a bad place. The minor leagues are barren of high end talent with little to no bats coming up to help. With Yelich getting more expensive as well as Burnes and Woodruff’s control dwindling (okay 3 years, but still), a rebuild now would be awful in that it’s arguably the best pitching staff the Brewers have ever had that is still mostly relatively cheap. Rebuilding now for two years would have their years of control down to 2 seasons and being much more expensive by then.

 

I think the Brewers missed their chance at taking a step back and are now basically forced to patch it all together with having very little in the minors to pull off a big trade to upgrade the MLB roster while having no hitting on the horizon to help out either. Plus the money on the big league roster is being spent on guys that are basically slightly below average offensively at this point.

[nate82]

Exactly, why wait until this off-season. Waiting is not an option. We need to to find out what is available in trade TODAY!!!. With the probability of injuries or an off year waiting any amount of time could be disastrous. You have to hit while the iron is hot and the opportunity is great. We've all seen that our offence is historically bad after 25% of the season gone by and waiting for any of these players to get hot seems overly hopeful. Sure, Lutz, Ashby, Hiura, Mitchell, Turang, Small and Feliciano have promise, however remember the Yelich trade and how those prospects have turned out. What is the probability that any of these guys turn into stars much less starters? With the Rockies, Twins, Rangers and Diamondbacks struggling good players...starters are to be had. Kepler, Sano, Story, Cron, Culberson, Gallo, for example could be had if the price is right.

 

Sano is not an upgrade even from Hiura.

 

Three slash lines and tell me which one would you want to be playing 1B:

 

.135 / .297 / .257

.152 / .247 / .266

.223 / .357 / .396

 

Cron from the Rockies would be a good pickup. Kepler I don't think would be made available and Culberson is just a guy on a hot streak not sure I would even give anything of value for him.

 

Of the players that you listed Cron would be the only player that would bring a positive to the offense. Story is going to cost way too much and I would rather trade for someone who has more than a half season of control and then they will be gone. Someone like Trea Turner would be the ideal player to trade for but I doubt he will be made available.

 

Improvements to the offense would probably have to come at 1B and 3B. One is probably just a platoon at 1B and the other a starter at 3B. If the Brewers could some how swing a trade with the Cubs for Bryant that would be the biggest move the Brewers could do to improve 3B offensively and defensively. At 1B the best option would be Cron or Aguilar. Both shouldn't cost all that much in terms of prospects.

[folly412]

I was thinking back to the 2019 opening rotation, which included these three. Stearns and Counsell bet on the full youth movement, not re-signing Miley or getting another free agent pitcher and throwing all three into the rotation. Granted, there was veteran depth all around them (or brought back later, in Gio Gonzalez's case). But the plan blew up quickly. Turns out they may have been a bit early, but they weren't so far off with their evaluation. A good lesson to have patience and not to give up on young pitching talent.

[roadcrew3]

I was thinking back to the 2019 opening rotation, which included these three. Stearns and Counsell bet on the full youth movement, not re-signing Miley or getting another free agent pitcher and throwing all three into the rotation. Granted, there was veteran depth all around them (or brought back later, in Gio Gonzalez's case). But the plan blew up quickly. Turns out they may have been a bit early, but they weren't so far off with their evaluation. A good lesson to have patience and not to give up on young pitching talent.

 

Good point and something we should maybe apply to young players in general, like Hiura.

[monty57]

Kind of a tough situation. Our farm is depleted, so our likely offensive help there is not coming for a while, as it's probably going to be Mitchell replacing Cain when he leaves, and Turang replacing Wong when he leaves. We could trade away pitching (Ashby, Small, Kelly), but they're the guys you hope fill in and eventually replace our current MLB pitching. Maybe, just maybe if these guys turn out, then we'll have "excess pitching" and be able to trade Woodruff for a king's ransom in his final year before free agency, and if we don't go crazy spending trying to "win now," then we might have some money to extend Burnes for a couple of extra years.

 

I get the urge to "strike while the iron's hot," but I really don't want to see us turn our depleted farm into a barren wasteland. We need to have more talent on the farm, not less. At the very least, we need to wait to see how the Yelich situation goes. He's really the key to our offense, so we need to get him back at 100% and see where we stand before we do anything else.

[owbc]

I agree with turbo, we need to have the discussion about how to get this team to the World Series. However, we can't put all of our chips into 2021. The playoffs are too random. We need to get this rotation 2 or 3 chances in the playoffs in the 2021-2024 range. So...

 

(1) Buy into our young guys. Urías is our starting SS for the rest of 2021. No trading for Story or other help at SS. Hiura will probably be back at some point this season and getting the majority of the starts at 1B. If not, Vogelbach is fine, he's getting better with regular playing time. No trading for Aguilar.

 

(2) We NEED Yelich back hitting at an all-star level. And we need Bradley Jr to perform at the level he's capable of. There are no replacements coming for them.

 

(3) Don't get your hopes up for a splashy deadline move this year. That's not how we operate. I'm guessing we might target a #5 starter/bullpen option and possibly corner IF/OF help. But it will either be a cheap rental or someone with a few years of control. Doug Melvin isn't going to suddenly appear and go 'all in' on 2021.