Was Sheets a pioneer?

[DHonks]

We all remember Ben Sheets' hook, but there were a couple of other developments that helped him really take off heading into 2004. For one thing Sheets scrapped the 2-seamer the Brewers wanted him to throw (remember "down and away" was stated a lot by Maddux) and shifted to a 4-seamer, resulting in a velocity boost from around 92 to 96+ mph. Ben also used this heater to generate a lot of strikeouts at the top of the zone, while also setting up his curveball in the dirt (using vertical planes rather than horizontal). He generated a lot of K's on the high cheese, and we can all remember Chad Moeller both waving the glove towards the dirt (indicating to keep the curve low) or squatting a little taller wanting the high cheese. Each year we heard stories of his developing changeup, but it was never a factor.

 

So was Ben Sheets ahead of his time with the high 4-seamer?

[MadScientist]

I hardly think Sheets was the first to use the high 4-seemer to get k's. The expression 'climbing the ladder' has been around for a long time. He threw a good bit harder than average back then, and combined with the much slower 12-6 hammer made Sheets special.

[endaround]

It is important to note Sheets had two curve balls. One was the 12-6 swinging strike one. The other was thrown for called strikes at the top of the zone with a much tighter break.

[pacopete4]

Not a pioneer on the mound but maybe at the plate. The only guy I've seen do some of the things he did up there.

[DHonks]

Maybe one thing that has stood out is previously there was no high strike called in MLB. Wasn't it during Sheets' era when MLB fought the umpires to normalize their zones and start calling the high strike? Now teams are using the high fastball as a weapon much more so than they did 25 years ago.

[logan82]

He had a fairly large difference in speed between his pitches too. I believe he had a pretty consistent delivery so it was hard to tell what was coming. And he was pretty good at hitting his spots.

 

I always liked his pace of pitching. 2 hour games were not uncommon.

[NYChez]

He was a pioneer ... for Corbin Burnes: low walks, high strikeouts, Cy Young-type numbers, and no run support.

[stoutdude04]

Not a pioneer on the mound but maybe at the plate. The only guy I've seen do some of the things he did up there.

 

I will never forget the interview he did after a great game on the mound...all he wanted to talk about was his at bats and his single to right.

[thebruce44]

Not a pioneer on the mound but maybe at the plate. The only guy I've seen do some of the things he did up there.

 

I will never forget the interview he did after a great game on the mound...all he wanted to talk about was his at bats and his single to right.

 

I remember a spring training segment where they kept asking about him working on a change up and all of his answers would go back to how he spent the offseason working on hitting more "dingers."

[stoutdude04]

Oh yea, I miss Sheeter.

[markedman5]

Who was the worst hitter ever among pitchers for the Brewers? Was it Sheets?

 

Also who would ge the top 5 best hitting pitchers for the crew? Kieschnick Doesn’t count.

 

I got

1 Greinke

2 Gallardo

3 CC

4 Dave Bush?

5 Marcum? Woody?

[CheezWizHed]

Two homers and no love for Hauser?

[rickh150]

Who was the worst hitter ever among pitchers for the Brewers? Was it Sheets?

 

Also who would ge the top 5 best hitting pitchers for the crew? Kieschnick Doesn’t count.

 

I got

1 Greinke

2 Gallardo

3 CC

4 Dave Bush?

5 Marcum? Woody?

 

I’ll take guys that bunt from the pitcher position.

[pacopete4]

Two homers and no love for Hauser?

 

No respect I tell ya. It’s Houser

[markedman5]

Houser was 1 for 22 in his career before this season……I’m going to have to see just a little more from him to put him on the list.

[KeithStone53151]

I put gallardo ahead of greinke and woody ahead of bush. Otherwise that seems correct. Also get marcum off that lost.

 

Sheets was hilarious at the plate. Sometimes I swear he went up there intent on closing his eyes and taking 3 big hacks and hoping for contract.

[KeithStone53151]

Also, I remember some of the 95 mph fastballs he threw to 1b on easy comebackers...in just about all cases it was completely unnecessary

[DHonks]

Brad Woodall was good, so was Wes Obermueller. Rusch had moments too.

[pacopete4]

Brooks Kieschnick!

[monty57]

Sheets got K's on high fastballs in the days when players had the "chop down at the ball to generate backspin" approach, making it more dangerous to throw high heat. Today, more pitchers throw high heat because players are hitting with more of an uppercut swing for "launch angle." Plus, as DHonks said, the umpires have a more uniform strike zone today, and they'll all call high strikes as strikes.

 

I'd guess that you'll start to see more players change their approach to hit the high fastballs, and to account for the dramatic shifts in today's game. If the "dead ball" stays in the game, that will expedite this change as a lot of balls that would've been home runs are now easy flyouts. Baseball is constantly evolving. That's part of what makes it fun, and whether or not he was a pioneer, Sheets was a fun guy to watch play. I just wish the injury bug would've left him alone.