keston hiura optioned

[jerichoholicninja]

Send him home to be with his mother. Playing baseball probably isn't helping his mental health or his game right now. No reason for him to be sucking at his job when he has other things on his mind.

[patrickgpe]

Maybe they can trade him for Kelenic since he stinks, too

its not a bad idea. that is a true change of scenery trade that could benefit both, without either team selling low.

 

Mariners would never do it.

 

To me it’s obvious the Brewers are going to take their time with Hiura and not move him after a horrendously bad stretch………he has options…..other teams would try and get him for a bag of balls which isn’t going to happen.

 

Take a deep breath and give him some time to make changes and hopefully figure it out.

plus the brewers don't really need an OF as much as an IF. Lux is another change of scene possibility. Again no way the Dodgers do it, but this is a message board, thats what we do here.

[patrickgpe]

Nottingham was just DFA'd, how hilarious would it be if we brought him in to play 1st.

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't get the rush from those wanting to trade Hiura for "whatever you can get" right now. He has options, so he can work out his issues in the minors for an extended period. If he didn't have options and we needed to keep him on the MLB roster, then I could understand the idea of trading him, but we lose nothing by keeping him in AAA.

 

It's possible that he's a bust, but it's also very possible that he goes down to AAA, figures out what he's doing wrong, and goes on to have a good MLB career. There is absolutely no reason to give up on that possibility just because he's lost at the plate right now. Give it time.

 

This is where I'm at with him. I'd just add that our farm isn't exactly full of good hitters in the upper minors so trading one that has the potential to be above average in a year or so is even more questionable.

[brewcrewdue80]

Keep Hiura down at the farm until his strikeouts are way down. He needs to stop chasing breaking pitches outside the zone and stop missing in the zone (must be mechanical). He needs to lay off high heat. All of those things are related and the fundamental issues with him. If he starts pounding substandard pitching at AAA it would just be masking the fundamental flaws. This shouldn’t be a two,or three week thing.

 

Everybody tends to chase at pitches out of the zone. That isn't what's keeping him from success.

The missing contact of pitches in the zone is what he has to fix. When you whiff on 45% of pitches that ML average whiffs 18pct of the time, reducing that will fix the other just on the fact hes putting balls in play before that breaking pitch that he whiffs out of the zone. How many middle of plate mistakes has he just swung through? Seems you see it in the game threads once a game at least. Mistakes that should be hit for doubles and HRs? Just get back to making them pay on those Mistakes.

 

As to trading him, hes obviously a much lower value right now. He's no defensive wizard and his value will come only in form of quality of his bat. So I'm leaning an opinion that trading Hiura I'm not opposed to now. Still gotta value him highly. Just let him rebuild his swing in minors.

[JosephC]

I would imagine Hiura's "trade value" number might have the largest variance of any 1+ year player in the majors if one had access to the analytics department of every team and could calculate that number. Would love to see front offices opinions of Hiura around the league. Baseballtradevalues has him at +18.6 million as I type this, but I'd guess the average from MLB front offices would be less than that. Only reason I say that is that I read so many doubters regarding Corey Ray and his swing-and-miss problem with pitches in the strike zone...would have to assume MLB front offices would be looking at Hiura the same way.

 

His trade value really doesn't concern me as I would have him cemented in as a "hold" at this time.

[TURBO]

Yeah, at this time, it is sink or swim with him.

 

It would be foolish to trade him for nothing.

 

Just hang onto him at this point and hope...

[DuWayne Steurer]

I mean honestly, the guys Hiura should be being compared against are the guys he's competing against when he's playing major league baseball. What the rest of his draft class does or is doing is irrelevant at this point. The only thing that draft class matters is if you want to find out if the Brewers "won" by getting value for their pick.

 

*At this point*, what matters is, can Hiura compete against big league players and provide value for the Milwaukee Brewers? Deriving some abstract value by saying "in 2019 he had an OPS+ of XYZ" doesn't do much for the Brewers going forward if he doesn't learn how to hit big league pitching. Yes, they got value for him in a past season, but that's not really the problem at this point in time.

[PeaveyFury]

It would be foolish to trade him for nothing.

 

I don't think anyone is thinking/advocating they trade him for nothing. But I do think they would trade him if they felt they got a fair return on him at this point.

[DuWayne Steurer]

It would be foolish to trade him for nothing.

 

I don't think anyone is thinking/advocating they trade him for nothing. But I do think they would trade him if they felt they got a fair return on him at this point.

 

I would definitely look at trading him for a perceived fair return. If he goes on to mash somewhere else, then it is what it is.

[monty57]

I mean honestly, the guys Hiura should be being compared against are the guys he's competing against when he's playing major league baseball. What the rest of his draft class does or is doing is irrelevant at this point. The only thing that draft class matters is if you want to find out if the Brewers "won" by getting value for their pick.

 

*At this point*, what matters is, can Hiura compete against big league players and provide value for the Milwaukee Brewers? Deriving some abstract value by saying "in 2019 he had an OPS+ of XYZ" doesn't do much for the Brewers going forward if he doesn't learn how to hit big league pitching. Yes, they got value for him in a past season, but that's not really the problem at this point in time.

 

I believe it was brought up simply to show that he's still young, and most of the guys in his draft class haven't even made the majors yet. Some posters are saying he's a bust, or that he's washed up when he's still more advanced than a lot of his peers. It's relevant in that fans tend to forget that players, especially young players early in their careers, can struggle. Many players get sent back to the minors at some point, and it's not because the team is giving up on them.

 

I agree that the Brewers' concern is where he goes from here, but his youth should grant him some patience, and there's plenty of reason to believe that he can get back on track with an extended stay in the minors.

 

I don't think anyone is thinking/advocating they trade him for nothing. But I do think they would trade him if they felt they got a fair return on him at this point.

 

It really comes down to what is a "fair return?" I'd argue that the Brewers need a high-potential 1B prospect in AAA more than they need a mop-up guy for the bullpen, and that's probably the most they could hope for in trade for Hiura right now. If somehow they can get a solid MLB corner infielder for him, then I'd agree with you that he could be traded, but I think his greatest value to the Brewers at this point comes from sending him down for an extended stay in the minors to get "fixed."

 

I think that if we stop looking at Hiura in terms of "he should be our cleanup hitter mashing MLB pitching," and look at him as a young prospect with a lot of potential, then a lot of people here would probably give him more of a break. He may be the victim of having too much success too soon. The expectations got set way too high, probably by himself as well as the team and the fans. He's had success, so we know it's in there. Hopefully some time in the minors will allow him to get his head on straight and make some adjustments that will allow for him to regain his success at the MLB level.

[Roderick]

It would be foolish to trade him for nothing.

 

I don't think anyone is thinking/advocating they trade him for nothing. But I do think they would trade him if they felt they got a fair return on him at this point.

 

I don't know. It sure seems that the tone on the posts is that a lot of people want to trade just for the sake of trading, regardless of return.

 

I would rather retain him and roll the dice we get back to the old Keston.

[MrTPlush]

Keston Hiura has pretty much torpedoed most of his value. Has proven he can't play 2B and has proven 1B is still going to be pretty ugly. Once the DH is a thing in the NL that is probably where he goes in any teams eyes. Now the major concerns and holes in his bat are center stage.

 

I don't think he has the high ceiling many once dreamed on either. I doubt he ever figures out how to be a .900+ OPS guy. Prime Rickie Weeks is likely the best case scenario, low .800 OPS. Still a nice bat to have, but again, I think that is the ceiling. He has some big flaws to figure out though.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think for this season Brewers have to move on and try to upgrade with a different RH bat to platoon with Vogelbach or take the position full time. With limited expansion of rosters in September now, Hiura would have to both put up good numbers at Nashville and lower his K rate significantly to even be added to the roster down the stretch. Then reassess his status this winter.

[Jopal78]

 

It really comes down to what is a "fair return?" I'd argue that the Brewers need a high-potential 1B prospect in AAA more than they need a mop-up guy for the bullpen, and that's probably the most they could hope for in trade for Hiura right now. If somehow they can get a solid MLB corner infielder for him, then I'd agree with you that he could be traded, but I think his greatest value to the Brewers at this point comes from sending him down for an extended stay in the minors to get "fixed."

 

I think that if we stop looking at Hiura in terms of "he should be our cleanup hitter mashing MLB pitching," and look at him as a young prospect with a lot of potential, then a lot of people here would probably give him more of a break. He may be the victim of having too much success too soon. The expectations got set way too high, probably by himself as well as the team and the fans. He's had success, so we know it's in there. Hopefully some time in the minors will allow him to get his head on straight and make some adjustments that will allow for him to regain his success at the MLB level.

 

I don't know if the expectations were too high. Hiura had a .950 OPS in the minor leagues, and was initially called up because he had nothing else to prove in the minor leagues. However, since then, teams have found out how to exploit his timing where they can throw him strikes and he can't get the bat on it, or doesn't hit it hard, and Hiura has been unable/unwilling to make a counter-adjustment. It truly is an unknown if he will be able to make an adjustment or not. MLB is littered with players who had 350 amazing at bats and were never heard from again as well as players who eventually figured it out.

 

The Brewers are in a tough spot with Hiura. They're not going to hold the door open for him any longer, especially when they're trying to compete in their division. Then again, I'm sure they don't want to pull the plug on a player who has hit 33 homeruns in 180 big league games.

[roadcrew3]

It would be foolish to trade him for nothing.

 

I don't think anyone is thinking/advocating they trade him for nothing. But I do think they would trade him if they felt they got a fair return on him at this point.

 

I would definitely look at trading him for a perceived fair return. If he goes on to mash somewhere else, then it is what it is.

 

What is his perceived fair return though? I can't imagine he brings back anything that would be a difference maker this season so it seems to me the Brewers are better off hanging on to him and see if he can correct his issues next year. Making a move just to make a move doesn't really help because with his age and experience he can just stay at AAA for as long as you want...I would rather gamble on his upside than a lottery ticket from another organization.

 

Maybe if Kelencic keeps struggling then there could be a change of scenery trade match...but that is really just wishful thinking and wouldn't actually become realistic until maybe this time next year...but at that point if Hiura isn't hitting still then he probably has 0 value

[monty57]

 

It really comes down to what is a "fair return?" I'd argue that the Brewers need a high-potential 1B prospect in AAA more than they need a mop-up guy for the bullpen, and that's probably the most they could hope for in trade for Hiura right now. If somehow they can get a solid MLB corner infielder for him, then I'd agree with you that he could be traded, but I think his greatest value to the Brewers at this point comes from sending him down for an extended stay in the minors to get "fixed."

 

I think that if we stop looking at Hiura in terms of "he should be our cleanup hitter mashing MLB pitching," and look at him as a young prospect with a lot of potential, then a lot of people here would probably give him more of a break. He may be the victim of having too much success too soon. The expectations got set way too high, probably by himself as well as the team and the fans. He's had success, so we know it's in there. Hopefully some time in the minors will allow him to get his head on straight and make some adjustments that will allow for him to regain his success at the MLB level.

 

I don't know if the expectations were too high. Hiura had a .950 OPS in the minor leagues, and was initially called up because he had nothing else to prove in the minor leagues. However, since then, teams have found out how to exploit his timing where they can throw him strikes and he can't get the bat on it, or doesn't hit it hard, and Hiura has been unable/unwilling to make a counter-adjustment. It truly is an unknown if he will be able to make an adjustment or not. MLB is littered with players who had 350 amazing at bats and were never heard from again as well as players who eventually figured it out.

 

The Brewers are in a tough spot with Hiura. They're not going to hold the door open for him any longer, especially when they're trying to compete in their division. Then again, I'm sure they don't want to pull the plug on a player who has hit 33 homeruns in 180 big league games.

 

I completely agree with this. My statement on the expectations being too high was that after his 2019 season everyone (myself included) just penciled Hiura in as a middle-of-the-order guy for the foreseeable future, without regard to the possibility of a "sophomore slump," or pitchers figuring him out and him taking some time (maybe in the minors) to adjust. Much of our offense was centered on he and Yelich being All-Star caliber hitters, and there wasn't much of a "Plan B."

 

But yes, he has to produce, and the Brewers are in a tough spot in dealing with him. Hopefully he figures things out, but I'm glad the Brewers are to the point as an organization that everyone, regardless of pedigree or contract, has to "put up or shut up."

[timpep]

The perceived value question for Hiura is interesting. If we didn't have Adames right now, would anyone trade Hiura for Adames? I think I would. Does that mean Hiura is worth a good reliever and a flawed high ceiling relief prospect?

 

It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out. My hope is they keep him in AAA the rest of the year and give him another shot next year. I just don't believe 2019 was all smoke and mirrors.

[brewcrewdue80]

The perceived value question for Hiura is interesting. If we didn't have Adames right now, would anyone trade Hiura for Adames? I think I would. Does that mean Hiura is worth a good reliever and a flawed high ceiling relief prospect?

 

It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out. My hope is they keep him in AAA the rest of the year and give him another shot next year. I just don't believe 2019 was all smoke and mirrors.

 

Thing on Adames is he was just as high a prospect as Hiura reached coming up and has proven to be valuable every year in the Majors. Brewers should jump at that offer every time. Maybe Adames doesnt possess the Ceiling Hiura could reach with the bat but Adames adds value all around whereas it's clearly only offense by Hiura. Probably need a different player to ask that question who might be more a low within top 100prospects whose shine is off from a top 50 previously.

 

Got a guy Id wonder on. Seth Beer of Arizona minors. 1b. I'd have to strongly consider that since a true 1b(unathletically) vs Keston. Hes off to a good start in AAA.

[markedman5]

It doesn't even matter if the Brewers would trade Hiura for Adames....because the Rays wouldn't do that deal.

 

His value right now is likely low enough that the brewers have no reason to move him. Let's see if he can rebuild some of it so at least they might have a decision to make a year or 2 from now.

[Baldkin]

The perceived value question for Hiura is interesting. If we didn't have Adames right now, would anyone trade Hiura for Adames? I think I would. Does that mean Hiura is worth a good reliever and a flawed high ceiling relief prospect?

 

It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out. My hope is they keep him in AAA the rest of the year and give him another shot next year. I just don't believe 2019 was all smoke and mirrors.

 

Thing on Adames is he was just as high a prospect as Hiura reached coming up and has proven to be valuable every year in the Majors. Brewers should jump at that offer every time. Maybe Adames doesnt possess the Ceiling Hiura could reach with the bat but Adames adds value all around whereas it's clearly only offense by Hiura. Probably need a different player to ask that question who might be more a low within top 100prospects whose shine is off from a top 50 previously.

 

Got a guy Id wonder on. Seth Beer of Arizona minors. 1b. I'd have to strongly consider that since a true 1b(unathletically) vs Keston. Hes off to a good start in AAA.

 

You want to bring Beer to the Brewers?

 

I'm in. 100%.

[Warning Track Power]

You want to bring Beer to the Brewers?

 

I'm in. 100%.

 

Might be the highest selling jersey in the history of professional sports.

[timpep]

It doesn't even matter if the Brewers would trade Hiura for Adames....because the Rays wouldn't do that deal.

 

His value right now is likely low enough that the brewers have no reason to move him. Let's see if he can rebuild some of it so at least they might have a decision to make a year or 2 from now.

 

Well the Rays don't have Adames so obviously it's a hypothetical example showing that the value Hiura has in a trade isn't much right now. Otherwise it looks like we agree.

[trwi7]

and was initially called up because he had nothing else to prove in the minor leagues.

 

I don't know why his strikeout rate in AAA back in 2019 is just ignored. He was between 18.1% and 20.9% throughout the minors and it jumped to 26.3% in AAA. That's pretty significant and concerning and it jumped to 30.7% in the majors his rookie year and has only gotten worse.

[sveumrules]

 

Got a guy Id wonder on. Seth Beer of Arizona minors. 1b. I'd have to strongly consider that since a true 1b(unathletically) vs Keston. Hes off to a good start in AAA.

 

You want to bring Beer to the Brewers?

 

I'm in. 100%.

 

Riley Pint just retired from the Rockies organization.

 

Mmmm, Pint of Beer.