keston hiura optioned

[TURBO]

 

The shaky limb is not realizing how different those situations are from dropping Taylor in at 1B with no preparation or experience in the middle of a pennant race when plenty of options with experience are readily available.

 

 

Who ever said to drop him in at 1B with no preparation or experience? I didn't see anyone say it, or even suggest that we try him at 1B with no prep or experience.

 

Not one person has ever said that.

[wildcat83]

 

Since 5’7” Hiura was seriously considered the Brewers first baseman.

 

Wow has that narrative been falsely overblown. Check a bio! Was Fielder too short to play first, because he’s shorter than Hiura. Keston is 6’ tall.

 

For all of his shortcomings this season, actually being short isn’t one of them....

[AKCheesehead]

I wonder if it would make any more or less sense to try Yelich at 1b as opposed to Taylor. It seems like he would be more suited for the position physically, and I seem to recall he played some 1b as an amateur. Of course, that's long ago, and it's LHH 1b redundancy with him and Vogelbach.

 

I would guess we see neither Yelich or Taylor at 1b, at least not in 2021. But stranger things have happened I suppose.

[Warning Track Power]

I wonder if it would make any more or less sense to try Yelich at 1b as opposed to Taylor. It seems like he would be more suited for the position physically, and I seem to recall he played some 1b as an amateur. Of course, that's long ago, and it's LHH 1b redundancy with him and Vogelbach.

 

I would guess we see neither Yelich or Taylor at 1b, at least not in 2021. But stranger things have happened I suppose.

I was having this dialogue with myself earlier today as it relates to Yelich and the long term maintenance on his back. Would playing first with the picks and scoops and fast twitch reactions be better to prolong his career or would playing the OF? This all assumes he would be serviceable as a defender at 1B. My thought is whatever will give better rest to that back is where he should go.

[rickh150]

 

Since 5’7” Hiura was seriously considered the Brewers first baseman.

 

Wow has that narrative been falsely overblown. Check a bio! Was Fielder too short to play first, because he’s shorter than Hiura. Keston is 6’ tall.

 

For all of his shortcomings this season, actually being short isn’t one of them....

 

My error and my apologies... might have been thinking Wong (who is 5’7”)

[sveumrules]

The shaky limb is not realizing how different those situations are from dropping Taylor in at 1B with no preparation or experience in the middle of a pennant race when plenty of options with experience are readily available.

 

Who ever said to drop him in at 1B with no preparation or experience? I didn't see anyone say it, or even suggest that we try him at 1B with no prep or experience.

 

Not one person has ever said that.

 

Tyrone has no experience playing 1B so any suggestion that he might play 1B is automatically made on that condition.

 

Sure, he could take some grounders during BP to try & prepare, but how long do you think it would take for both TT himself & the organizational brass to feel comfortable enough to try it out for real for the first time ever in an actual game during a pennant race?

 

How might the additional focus on trying to learn a brand new position impact Tyrone's offense, which has already been trending down (859 OPS first 49 PAs, 659 OPS last 48 PAs), in the meantime?

 

Guess it just seems like a lot of potential risk for a little potential reward to me, especially when there are much simpler solutions (Hernan/Green/Wilson) in AAA who don't need to learn how to play the position from scratch.

[JohnBriggs12]

I wonder if it would make any more or less sense to try Yelich at 1b as opposed to Taylor. It seems like he would be more suited for the position physically, and I seem to recall he played some 1b as an amateur. Of course, that's long ago, and it's LHH 1b redundancy with him and Vogelbach.

 

I would guess we see neither Yelich or Taylor at 1b, at least not in 2021. But stranger things have happened I suppose.

I was having this dialogue with myself earlier today as it relates to Yelich and the long term maintenance on his back. Would playing first with the picks and scoops and fast twitch reactions be better to prolong his career or would playing the OF? This all assumes he would be serviceable as a defender at 1B. My thought is whatever will give better rest to that back is where he should go.

 

With a hitter of Yelich's stature, the redundancy aspect is a non issue. You don't sit him vs. LH pitching. Mickey Mantle didn't play an inning of 1B until he was 35. He played there exclusively nearly full time his final 2 seasons. He was far from perfect, making 8 errors in 1967 and 15 in his last year, 1968. But that was in an era when 6 or 7 strikeouts by a staff per game was a lot. I think Yelich would be fine playing there a couple days a week to start when the big strikeout guys, Peralta and Burns are scheduled. Taylor should stay in the outfield. Let him get established as a major league hitter. If it works out that playing first is easier on Yelich's back, all the better.

[Austin Tatious]

Keep Hiura down at the farm until his strikeouts are way down. He needs to stop chasing breaking pitches outside the zone and stop missing in the zone (must be mechanical). He needs to lay off high heat. All of those things are related and the fundamental issues with him. If he starts pounding substandard pitching at AAA it would just be masking the fundamental flaws. This shouldn’t be a two,or three week thing.

[monty57]

I don't get the rush from those wanting to trade Hiura for "whatever you can get" right now. He has options, so he can work out his issues in the minors for an extended period. If he didn't have options and we needed to keep him on the MLB roster, then I could understand the idea of trading him, but we lose nothing by keeping him in AAA.

 

It's possible that he's a bust, but it's also very possible that he goes down to AAA, figures out what he's doing wrong, and goes on to have a good MLB career. There is absolutely no reason to give up on that possibility just because he's lost at the plate right now. Give it time.

[Austin Tatious]

I don't get the rush from those wanting to trade Hiura for "whatever you can get" right now. He has options, so he can work out his issues in the minors for an extended period. If he didn't have options and we needed to keep him on the MLB roster, then I could understand the idea of trading him, but we lose nothing by keeping him in AAA.

 

It's possible that he's a bust, but it's also very possible that he goes down to AAA, figures out what he's doing wrong, and goes on to have a good MLB career. There is absolutely no reason to give up on that possibility just because he's lost at the plate right now. Give it time.

 

 

Agree completely. Trading him when his value has bottomed out would be like selling a stock low. That’s when you buy because the asset has become a bargain. To take that analogy further, he has had a double bottom and he will go up from here.

 

He has talent. The approach is all wrong. From a big picture standpoint, he is worth hanging on to because the upside outweighs whatever nonsensical return you could get for him now by selling at the bottom. The NL will probably have a DH in the next agreement and he can have a role. He can have an electric bat if he can figure some things out.

[Underachiever]

 

Might as well start with the first round of 2017, when Keston was selected 9th. Just over half (19) of the 36 first round picks in 2017 have yet to appear in MLB. Of the 17 who have gotten to MLB, Keston is one of only six with a positive WAR so far...

You make this point a lot. I don't understand how it matters. None of those other first-round picks are on the Brewers, so their progress, or lack thereof, has nothing to do with Hiura. It's okay to be above average for your draft class, even the best! Somebody in that draft class has to break through first. Are you suggesting that what we are seeing is good? An acceptable trajectory? The kind of progress you would expect? Something that gives you hope for the future? He is broken now. Has been for 100 games. It gives me no comfort that there are first round draft choices on other teams that haven't contributed. Mainly because I don't cheer for other teams nor wish success for their players for the most part. But mainly because Hiura's rapid rise was what got our hopes up so high. I am sure that Indians fans were pumped about Joe Charboneau in 1980.

[patrickgpe]

He’s not the long term answer at 2nd, he’s no longer the long term answer at 1st. He has too much experience to be considered a prospect.

 

I’d trade him for whatever pitching the can get. And explain it as a change of scenery

He could be a long term answer at DH if that is collectively bargained in the winter like I expect. you basically could maybe get a lottery ticket for him. i disagree that you should cut bait on him at his lowest point.

[homer]

At the end of the day, he's had just a shade over 1/2 a season of really, really bad ABs.

[Jopal78]

He could be a long term answer at DH if that is collectively bargained in the winter like I expect. you basically could maybe get a lottery ticket for him. i disagree that you should cut bait on him at his lowest point.

 

That's exactly the point he could be if he is capable of completely remaking who he is as a hitter in AAA. But it is anyone's guess whether Hiura will be capable of abandoning the hitting style/approach which got him drafted in the Top 10 overall in the first place, to find an approach that will allow him to succeed at the major league level.

 

The team made him a starter twice and he failed, he's a question mark going forward. Given where the Brewers are in the success cycle, there is no reason to include him in their future plans right now. Yet his pedigree may still make him attractive to rebuilding clubs around the league to where the Brewers could get a useful major league player (Michael Fulmer, Ian Kennedy et al) in return come the end of July.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Maybe they can trade him for Kelenic since he stinks, too

[PeaveyFury]

Maybe they can trade him for Kelenic since he stinks, too

 

I think this is the best potential argument for possibly trading him, sarcasm aside. If you can find a similarly-high ceilinged player like Huira who also may have fallen out of favor, he might have value in that regard trade-wise. Keston's best future position is DH. He probably has more future value to an AL team as a result....

[brewerfan82]

 

Might as well start with the first round of 2017, when Keston was selected 9th. Just over half (19) of the 36 first round picks in 2017 have yet to appear in MLB. Of the 17 who have gotten to MLB, Keston is one of only six with a positive WAR so far...

You make this point a lot. I don't understand how it matters. None of those other first-round picks are on the Brewers, so their progress, or lack thereof, has nothing to do with Hiura. It's okay to be above average for your draft class, even the best! Somebody in that draft class has to break through first. Are you suggesting that what we are seeing is good? An acceptable trajectory? The kind of progress you would expect? Something that gives you hope for the future? He is broken now. Has been for 100 games. It gives me no comfort that there are first round draft choices on other teams that haven't contributed. Mainly because I don't cheer for other teams nor wish success for their players for the most part. But mainly because Hiura's rapid rise was what got our hopes up so high. I am sure that Indians fans were pumped about Joe Charboneau in 1980.

I appreciate sveum's posts. It's good to have perspective. Hiura's still only 24 and playing against a higher level of competition than most of his peers. The last 120 games have been disappointing after his excellent debut in the big leagues, but he's still at an age that players are expected to still be developing. It would be shortsighted to give up on him at this point as he still has a tremendously high ceiling which we've seen extended glimpses of. Hopefully some more time in the minors will unlock whatever's going on with him.

[adambr2]

I don't get the rush from those wanting to trade Hiura for "whatever you can get" right now. He has options, so he can work out his issues in the minors for an extended period. If he didn't have options and we needed to keep him on the MLB roster, then I could understand the idea of trading him, but we lose nothing by keeping him in AAA.

 

It's possible that he's a bust, but it's also very possible that he goes down to AAA, figures out what he's doing wrong, and goes on to have a good MLB career. There is absolutely no reason to give up on that possibility just because he's lost at the plate right now. Give it time.

 

 

Agree completely. Trading him when his value has bottomed out would be like selling a stock low. That’s when you buy because the asset has become a bargain. To take that analogy further, he has had a double bottom and he will go up from here.

 

He has talent. The approach is all wrong. From a big picture standpoint, he is worth hanging on to because the upside outweighs whatever nonsensical return you could get for him now by selling at the bottom. The NL will probably have a DH in the next agreement and he can have a role. He can have an electric bat if he can figure some things out.

 

I think everyone understands the concept of buying low and selling high. He still has trade value. Those who advocate trading him now DO believe they're selling high, because if his current trajectory continues he'll be worth what Lewis Brinson is worth in a year or two.

[Underachiever]

I appreciate sveum's posts. It's good to have perspective. Hiura's still only 24 and playing against a higher level of competition than most of his peers. The last 120 games have been disappointing after his excellent debut in the big leagues, but he's still at an age that players are expected to still be developing. It would be shortsighted to give up on him at this point as he still has a tremendously high ceiling which we've seen extended glimpses of. Hopefully some more time in the minors will unlock whatever's going on with him.

Right, and to be clear, I have not called for Hiura to be cut, traded, or any of that (Full disclosure: In a weak moment, I MAY have told him to go away once in a game thread, can't remember). Sending him down to fix whatever is broken is what I wanted. I just don't know how the progress of other teams' draft choices matters for what we are seeing from Hiura. It's okay to be a phenom.

[Austin Tatious]

I don't get the rush from those wanting to trade Hiura for "whatever you can get" right now. He has options, so he can work out his issues in the minors for an extended period. If he didn't have options and we needed to keep him on the MLB roster, then I could understand the idea of trading him, but we lose nothing by keeping him in AAA.

 

It's possible that he's a bust, but it's also very possible that he goes down to AAA, figures out what he's doing wrong, and goes on to have a good MLB career. There is absolutely no reason to give up on that possibility just because he's lost at the plate right now. Give it time.

 

 

Agree completely. Trading him when his value has bottomed out would be like selling a stock low. That’s when you buy because the asset has become a bargain. To take that analogy further, he has had a double bottom and he will go up from here.

 

He has talent. The approach is all wrong. From a big picture standpoint, he is worth hanging on to because the upside outweighs whatever nonsensical return you could get for him now by selling at the bottom. The NL will probably have a DH in the next agreement and he can have a role. He can have an electric bat if he can figure some things out.

 

I think everyone understands the concept of buying low and selling high. He still has trade value. Those who advocate trading him now DO believe they're selling high, because if his current trajectory continues he'll be worth what Lewis Brinson is worth in a year or two.

 

 

Fair enough. But I’d rather take the risk with him that the upside re-materializes rather than take an Arcia type return where you get a couple of relievers who are AAAA arms or 4.00 or higher ERA type guys. I’d rather be the organization that acquired him for pennies on the dollar in that scenario. If he never pans out, well I take that risk because of the potential (compact swing that can be an electric bat). Stay the course even if he spends the rest of 2021 at Nashville.

[brooks_quichenick]

I appreciate sveum's posts. It's good to have perspective. Hiura's still only 24 and playing against a higher level of competition than most of his peers. The last 120 games have been disappointing after his excellent debut in the big leagues, but he's still at an age that players are expected to still be developing. It would be shortsighted to give up on him at this point as he still has a tremendously high ceiling which we've seen extended glimpses of. Hopefully some more time in the minors will unlock whatever's going on with him.

Right, and to be clear, I have not called for Hiura to be cut, traded, or any of that (Full disclosure: In a weak moment, I MAY have told him to go away once in a game thread, can't remember). Sending him down to fix whatever is broken is what I wanted. I just don't know how the progress of other teams' draft choices matters for what we are seeing from Hiura. It's okay to be a phenom.

 

How is it NOT relevant to the discussion? It's good to have that perspective and comparison to his peers who have yet to even sniff the big leagues, tasting success and/or failure.

[umphrey]

I feel like the idea of guys developing at the MLB level is kind of an old myth. You have the occasional late career breakout, you can find guys that get 10-20% better year to year, but a lot of guys are kind of done improving around year 3. So I’ll give him this year but if he still stinks I’m writing him off.

[adambr2]

Fair enough. But I’d rather take the risk with him that the upside re-materializes rather than take an Arcia type return where you get a couple of relievers who are AAAA arms or 4.00 or higher ERA type guys. I’d rather be the organization that acquired him for pennies on the dollar in that scenario. If he never pans out, well I take that risk because of the potential (compact swing that can be an electric bat). Stay the course even if he spends the rest of 2021 at Nashville.

 

I don't think his value has fallen to Arcia type levels. Ultimately he's still only about 300 ABs removed from a really productive rookie season. Someone would take a shot at the upside especially in the AL where they don't have to worry about where the glove fits.

 

Something like a straight up deal for Trey Mancini seems fair. If his value indeed has fallen as far as you suggested, I would hold as well.

[patrickgpe]

Maybe they can trade him for Kelenic since he stinks, too

its not a bad idea. that is a true change of scenery trade that could benefit both, without either team selling low.

[markedman5]

Maybe they can trade him for Kelenic since he stinks, too

its not a bad idea. that is a true change of scenery trade that could benefit both, without either team selling low.

 

Mariners would never do it.

 

To me it’s obvious the Brewers are going to take their time with Hiura and not move him after a horrendously bad stretch………he has options…..other teams would try and get him for a bag of balls which isn’t going to happen.

 

Take a deep breath and give him some time to make changes and hopefully figure it out.