billy mckinney appreciation thread; traded to mets 25 may

[SeaBass]

There's probably a good chance Quintana got $10,000 to sign his deal. I doubt the Mets outbid the Brewers for his services. Our farm system isn't any better today than it was yesterday.

 

You don’t know that……just because he wasn’t a high bonus player doesn’t mean he won’t become a player……just like paying a huge bonus doesn’t mean you are getting a future star…..as we well know.

 

Obviously the Brewers see some potential in the kid or they would have picked someone else or just taken cash.

 

It’s a crap shoot……we got Aguilar on waivers……so did the Marlins…….Nelson Cruz was DFA and nobody wanted him……you just never know….. chances are the kid won’t make it…..but our system has another player that it didn’t have a day ago……so that’s not a bad thing.

 

I swear it seems some people would rather have gotten nothing for a player we had to release.

Well nothing is almost certainly what we did in fact get. Comparing a guy who has never even played a professional game even in the DSL to Aguilar or Cruz is pretty ridiculous.

The Mets used him to trade for a guy they needed without having to wait out the waivers process, the Brewers could use him the exact same way. He doesn't need to pan out as a prospect to be a positive asset.

[markedman5]

The point is player evaluation is an inexact science and mistakes get made all the time.

[Simba2020]

There's probably a good chance Quintana got $10,000 to sign his deal. I doubt the Mets outbid the Brewers for his services. Our farm system isn't any better today than it was yesterday.

 

Agreed. The addition of any high school aged soon to be DSL minor leaguer is completely worthless. (Could actually argue that they provide negative value in that it costs money to field DSL teams and they have produced almost no big leaguers for the Brewers over the last decade or so)

 

#8 - Eduardo Garcia

#9 Hedbert Perez

#12 Luis Medina

#13 Carlos Rodriguez

#16 Jeferson Quero

#20 Jesus Parra

#29 Pablo Abreu

 

Nearly 25% of our current Top 30 play or have played for the DSL Brewers. Thank god for wasting all that money, imagine our system if we stopped spending money down there.

I'll still say that Quintana singed for $10K as that's what most players get. They have to fill out rosters to play the games and they do so with guys that virtually have no chance. The above listed players got collective signing bonuses of nearly $6 million so you likely can't compare them in any way to Quintana.

[brooks_quichenick]

Getting a 17 year old player in exchange for a AAAA outfielder you were going to lose anyways is good. Not difficult to see that. Maybe the kid pans out, more likely he doesn't, but you never know.

[Eye Black]

There's probably a good chance Quintana got $10,000 to sign his deal. I doubt the Mets outbid the Brewers for his services. Our farm system isn't any better today than it was yesterday.

 

Agreed. The addition of any high school aged soon to be DSL minor leaguer is completely worthless. (Could actually argue that they provide negative value in that it costs money to field DSL teams and they have produced almost no big leaguers for the Brewers over the last decade or so)

 

#8 - Eduardo Garcia

#9 Hedbert Perez

#12 Luis Medina

#13 Carlos Rodriguez

#16 Jeferson Quero

#20 Jesus Parra

#29 Pablo Abreu

 

Nearly 25% of our current Top 30 play or have played for the DSL Brewers. Thank god for wasting all that money, imagine our system if we stopped spending money down there.

The Orioles for several years (prior to their current front office regime) basically punted on the International market and it didn’t work out so well for them.

 

Another name to mention is RHP Abner Uribe who the Brewers signed for $85,000 in 2018. Uribe is ranked as the Brewers #22 prospect by Baseball America and he reportedly has a 101-mph fastball now at age-20.

 

While the likelihood of any given low bonus International signee making an impact at the major league level is minuscule, it certainly does happen. Some of the more notable past low bonus signings include:

 

Jose Ramirez ($50,000, Indians, 2009)

Nelson Cruz ($15,000, Mets, 1998)

Teoscar Hernandez ($20,000, Astros, 2011)

Salvador Perez ($65,000, Royals, 2006)

Marcell Ozuna ($49,000, Marlins, 2008)

 

Some current top 100 prospects with very low signing bonuses include Sixto Sánchez ($35,000, Phillies, 2015) and Rays middle infielder Vidal Brujan ($15,000, 2014).

 

So there are some outlier success stories, but obviously the odds aren’t very good in any specific case.

[SomewhereInTime]

We've spent 10+ years getting no results from international signings, maybe we should punt on it.

[SomewhereInTime]

Getting a 17 year old player in exchange for a AAAA outfielder you were going to lose anyways is good. Not difficult to see that. Maybe the kid pans out, more likely he doesn't, but you never know.

 

You could also just sign a random 17 year old player, kind of irrelevant that a team would trade you one for a guy you are going to release anyway.

[sveumrules]

We've spent 10+ years getting no results from international signings, maybe we should punt on it.

 

The Brewers were always one of the least active teams in Latin America before Stearns and company got here. I guess I don't see how the organization's previous lack of results doing next to nothing are really relevant now that they have upped their efforts & investment considerably.

 

It's almost like Stearns & company recognized the organization's lack of a presence in Latin America was problematic, so they took steps to address that & we are just now starting to see the earliest buds pop up from what will hopefully someday be the fruits of that labour.

[SomewhereInTime]

We've spent 10+ years getting no results from international signings, maybe we should punt on it.

 

The Brewers were always one of the least active teams in Latin America before Stearns and company got here. I guess I don't see how the organization's previous lack of results doing next to nothing are really relevant now that they have upped their efforts & investment considerably.

 

It's almost like Stearns & company recognized the organization's lack of a presence in Latin America was problematic, so they took steps to address that & we are just now starting to see the earliest buds pop up from what will hopefully someday be the fruits of that labour.

 

But is it worth it when they have the same minor league service time rules as stateside minor leaguers? If you sign a guy when he's 16 his six years are up at age 22 meaning he has to be promoted to the 40 man a lot earlier than stateside minor leaguers. Unless you get one who's really good at a really young age you have to stash him on the 40 man wasting a roster spot or risk losing them to someone else anyway.

[Simba2020]

I'll admit there is a greater than zero percent chance that Quintana will make it to the majors and an even greater chance that he will become a prospect that will turn into a real tradeable asset. And that's a fine return for the Mets new cleanup hitter.

 

However, I won't say the farm system is suddenly better because we added a $10K signee (assuming that to be the case). If that's all it took, why not just go out and sign 50 other similar players? There's a reason that doesn't happen.

[liveforoctober]

There's probably a good chance Quintana got $10,000 to sign his deal. I doubt the Mets outbid the Brewers for his services. Our farm system isn't any better today than it was yesterday.

 

Agreed. The addition of any high school aged soon to be DSL minor leaguer is completely worthless. (Could actually argue that they provide negative value in that it costs money to field DSL teams and they have produced almost no big leaguers for the Brewers over the last decade or so)

 

I would love to hear how you would structure our minor league system and deploy scouts/gather talent if you were in charge of player development for Milwaukee?

[brooks_quichenick]

Getting a 17 year old player in exchange for a AAAA outfielder you were going to lose anyways is good. Not difficult to see that. Maybe the kid pans out, more likely he doesn't, but you never know.

 

You could also just sign a random 17 year old player, kind of irrelevant that a team would trade you one for a guy you are going to release anyway.

 

I don't follow. How exactly is it irrelevant, that doesn't make any sense. The Brewers were going to let a big league player go, and instead of receiving nothing in return they got a lottery ticket player.

 

 

Weird that you're creating fictional scenarios to argue that receiving a player instead of receiving nothing is a bad thing.

[Simba2020]

Getting a 17 year old player in exchange for a AAAA outfielder you were going to lose anyways is good. Not difficult to see that. Maybe the kid pans out, more likely he doesn't, but you never know.

 

You could also just sign a random 17 year old player, kind of irrelevant that a team would trade you one for a guy you are going to release anyway.

 

I don't follow. How exactly is it irrelevant, that doesn't make any sense. The Brewers were going to let a big league player go, and instead of receiving nothing in return they got a lottery ticket player.

 

 

Weird that you're creating fictional scenarios to argue that receiving a player instead of receiving nothing is a bad thing.

It's irrelevant in this sense. I've repeatedly said I suspect Quintana was signed for $10,000. Don't know, just likely. If that is the case, there is no difference in saying we traded McKinney for Quintana or sold McKinney to the Mets for $10,000 and then signed an equivalent player for that same amount. Either way, it's not a needle mover.

[MrTPlush]

Okay, honestly, can someone please explain how we are even arguing over this? We traded away a guy we picked up for nothing, honestly sucked for us, for something that breathes. You cannot be telling people are upset a billion dollar franchise didn't, instead, take the $50k cash (or a $1, who knows) instead.

 

What fan, in the history of fandom, complains the team took a player instead of a few grand? Do people not realize we DFA'd the guy, were perfectly willing to lose him for nothing, and in the time of being able to trade him the Mets swooped in and offered something.

 

I mean, this seems like complaining just because one wants to complain. This is really grasping for something.

[brooks_quichenick]

Okay, honestly, can someone please explain how we are even arguing over this? We traded away a guy we picked up for nothing, honestly sucked for us, for something that breathes. You cannot be telling people are upset a billion dollar franchise didn't, instead, take the $50k cash (or a $1, who knows) instead.

 

What fan, in the history of fandom, complains the team took a player instead of a few grand? Do people not realize we DFA'd the guy, were perfectly willing to lose him for nothing, and in the time of being able to trade him the Mets swooped in and offered something.

 

I mean, this seems like complaining just because one wants to complain. This is really grasping for something.

 

This is my point exactly. How are people up in arms over this transaction? It's the most minor thing, but some people apparently can't help but complain about every little thing, even receiving a minor league player in return for DFA'ing a AAAA OF instead of just letting the AAAA OF go for nothing.

 

Can't wrap my head around the need to complain about it.

[PeaveyFury]

It's irrelevant in this sense. I've repeatedly said I suspect Quintana was signed for $10,000. Don't know, just likely. If that is the case, there is no difference in saying we traded McKinney for Quintana or sold McKinney to the Mets for $10,000 and then signed an equivalent player for that same amount. Either way, it's not a needle mover.

 

Perhaps the question is, who exactly are you arguing against in your 9 posts on the subject? Who has claimed that this is anything other than a lottery ticket?

[FVBrewerFan]

Honestly, I'm stunned this transaction hasn't generated a World Series here we come" take.

[CheezWizHed]

Getting a 17 year old player in exchange for a AAAA outfielder you were going to lose anyways is good. Not difficult to see that. Maybe the kid pans out, more likely he doesn't, but you never know.

 

You could also just sign a random 17 year old player, kind of irrelevant that a team would trade you one for a guy you are going to release anyway.

 

[sarcasm]I have a 17 year old son who would be willing to volunteer. Wait another 6 months and I'll have a 16 year old they can sign also.[/sarcasm]

 

I suppose getting this guy is like drafting 20+ rounders. Most do nothing. Some help fill rosters in the minors. Occasionally they pitch no-hitters (Fiers).

[LouisEly]

Think about this:

 

We've been griping about how bad the Brewers offense has been, yet the Brewers have DFA'd two position players: one was claimed by another team (twice), and one was traded for.

 

What does that say about the rest of the league?

[timpep]

Think about this:

 

We've been griping about how bad the Brewers offense has been, yet the Brewers have DFA'd two position players: one was claimed by another team (twice), and one was traded for.

 

What does that say about the rest of the league?

 

It says that there are at least 2 teams that might be worse than us at those positions?

[MrTPlush]

Think about this:

 

We've been griping about how bad the Brewers offense has been, yet the Brewers have DFA'd two position players: one was claimed by another team (twice), and one was traded for.

 

What does that say about the rest of the league?

 

League? Two teams took two of our players. If two teams is reflection of the entire league...

 

Those players got picked up for short term fill ins until their regulars are healthy and back. The Mets have like four injured OFers and the Mariners have two injured first baseman. Should we be excited teams want our AAAA players for a few weeks before they dump them too?

[monty57]

I suppose getting this guy is like drafting 20+ rounders. Most do nothing. Some help fill rosters in the minors. Occasionally they pitch no-hitters (Fiers).

 

And every team in the league would take an extra late-round draft pick if it were given to them. Even though they know the player picked probably won't make the majors, they would select someone they liked with the hopes they could turn into something.

[SomewhereInTime]

I suppose getting this guy is like drafting 20+ rounders. Most do nothing. Some help fill rosters in the minors. Occasionally they pitch no-hitters (Fiers).

 

And every team in the league would take an extra late-round draft pick if it were given to them. Even though they know the player picked probably won't make the majors, they would select someone they liked with the hopes they could turn into something.

 

Is that why teams used to punt away late round draft picks on someone's nephew or some guy who plays another sport and will never sign?

[AKCheesehead]

I suppose getting this guy is like drafting 20+ rounders. Most do nothing. Some help fill rosters in the minors. Occasionally they pitch no-hitters (Fiers).

 

And every team in the league would take an extra late-round draft pick if it were given to them. Even though they know the player picked probably won't make the majors, they would select someone they liked with the hopes they could turn into something.

 

Is that why teams used to punt away late round draft picks on someone's nephew or some guy who plays another sport and will never sign?

 

Wasn't that basically how the Dodgers got Piazza?

[Underachiever]

Had a next-door neighbor in the early 90s who wanted to be drafted so badly, just for a chance to keep playing. Waited through 60 rounds of the draft. Then the White Sox drafted their GM’s daughter, who was a softball player. That sucked. Poor guy didn’t get picked.